Quote from: Venka on April 03, 2025, 05:49:48 PMI mean this guy was gonna bitch about Trump no matter what. 

I'm actually shocked the email didn't mention Trump by name. Clearly not written by Steve Jackson himself.

Ya know, there is an opportunity here.  Laser cut game tokens from MDF and plexiglass, 3d printing, etc.  While some items do require big machines, not all of them.

Steve Jackson: progressive Democrat who believes in fair wages, unions, and economic patriotism

except when it comes to manufacturing the stuff he sells

then it is all about semi-slave labor in China, and no unions

Quote from: zircher on April 03, 2025, 08:17:52 PMYa know, there is an opportunity here.  Laser cut game tokens from MDF and plexiglass, 3d printing, etc.  While some items do require big machines, not all of them.

yes.  this is why i pointed out taxes and regulations.  because even if you subcontracted this out to a local mom and pop garage operation, they still have to pay very high taxes, and insurance, etc, etc.

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on April 03, 2025, 09:34:48 PMSteve Jackson: progressive Democrat who believes in fair wages, unions, and economic patriotism

except when it comes to manufacturing the stuff he sells

then it is all about semi-slave labor in China, and no unions

...and yet years ago I remember people used to clsaim the default setting of "Infinite Worlds" (Time Travel) was too 'capitalist'/right woing biased.

 Strange - huh?

- Ed C.

SJG has to explain the incoming price increases to their customers.
And that is what the mail is about.
It merely says "Sorry, we have to raise the prices due to the tariffs and don't come to us and complain because we are not responsible."

That is standard 101 PR.

And it is logical that they cannot produce in the USA since there is not enough production capacity in the foreseeable future.

Regarding slave labour in China - There is slave labour in China but it is not usual. Mostly people get paid their wages and live with that.
There are jobs in which people are being exploited of course (mostly delivery drivers).

But all in all it is not that much different from the USA or Europe.

What I think is an interesting side effect we can see here that the tariffs will probably weaken US exports since products which are partially being produced elsewhere will become more expensive when they are assembled in the USA and then being exported

Seems like a great opportunity to start company in the US specializing in making gaming products.  Or you can be a whiny cunt like Steve Jackson games and put out a political ad for the Democrats and pretend you are non-partisan.

Quote from: Coffeecup on Today at 01:50:47 AMSJG has to explain the incoming price increases to their customers.
And that is what the mail is about.
It merely says "Sorry, we have to raise the prices due to the tariffs and don't come to us and complain because we are not responsible."

That is standard 101 PR.

And it is logical that they cannot produce in the USA since there is not enough production capacity in the foreseeable future.

Regarding slave labour in China - There is slave labour in China but it is not usual. Mostly people get paid their wages and live with that.
There are jobs in which people are being exploited of course (mostly delivery drivers).

But all in all it is not that much different from the USA or Europe.

What I think is an interesting side effect we can see here that the tariffs will probably weaken US exports since products which are partially being produced elsewhere will become more expensive when they are assembled in the USA and then being exported

No on tariffs making manufacturing weaker.  The US is working will be having zero tariffs with Argentina.  Vietnam unfortunately did not go the Zero tariff approach it made some concessions on LNG and automobiles, but it was low so they are at 46% now.  Hopefully a zero tariff negotiation can be put in place between the US and Vietnam.

SJG is supposed to be creative and brilliant with the game business, but he isn't showing it.

For decades the aerospace industry has used mom & pop garage type CNC outfits to manufacture their small parts under a subcontractor agreement. Considering the wild proliferation of 3D printers, there is no reason why SJG can't go this same route with boardgame pieces.

Except he wouldn't be able to whine about Trump if he did.

First of all being creative and brilliant with designing games doesn't mean that they have a clue about brilliant and creative means of production.

Regarding the use of 3D printers: These cost money and now they become even more expensive due to tariffs. TTRPG companies usually don't have that much money and banks are also not that open to handing out loans at a reasonable rate to such companies.

Additionally you need paper printers for TTRPGs which are also becoming more and more expensive due to tariffs. We are not talking here about your usual HP printer on your desk.

And all this has to be done at a reasonable price.
Then you need paper and you need to ask yourself wether it is being imported or not. Additionally you have to store the raw material for the printing which means additional costs.

Furthermore you need people to operate the printers. So you need professionals.
But currently you have a labour shortage (so hard that Florida is making it's child labour laws more lax) in the USA and finding expert labour for an industry which has been outsourced is difficult and expensive.

So in each case you have to pay more - the questions are
a) How much more (will it still be cheaper to produce in China than in the USA)?
b) How good will the quality be (proven quality by made in China vs unknown quality by made in the USA).

Quote from: Coffeecup on Today at 04:51:22 AMFirst of all being creative and brilliant with designing games doesn't mean that they have a clue about brilliant and creative means of production.

Regarding the use of 3D printers: These cost money and now they become even more expensive due to tariffs. TTRPG companies usually don't have that much money and banks are also not that open to handing out loans at a reasonable rate to such companies.

Additionally you need paper printers for TTRPGs which are also becoming more and more expensive due to tariffs. We are not talking here about your usual HP printer on your desk.

And all this has to be done at a reasonable price.
Then you need paper and you need to ask yourself wether it is being imported or not. Additionally you have to store the raw material for the printing which means additional costs.

Furthermore you need people to operate the printers. So you need professionals.
But currently you have a labour shortage (so hard that Florida is making it's child labour laws more lax) in the USA and finding expert labour for an industry which has been outsourced is difficult and expensive.

So in each case you have to pay more - the questions are
a) How much more (will it still be cheaper to produce in China than in the USA)?
b) How good will the quality be (proven quality by made in China vs unknown quality by made in the USA).

I think that you may have missed my use of the word, "subcontractor". You don't buy the printers, you get people who already have them to bid on the part manufacturing jobs. If it's mutually beneficial, you've got a business.

Quote from: jeff37923 on Today at 06:34:11 AMI think that you may have missed my use of the word, "subcontractor". You don't buy the printers, you get people who already have them to bid on the part manufacturing jobs. If it's mutually beneficial, you've got a business.

I agree with that. But there are not that many subcontractors in that kind of business in the USA since that is kind of work which had so low margins that it was cheaper to outsource it to countries like China.

So the few available subcontractors left in the USA will have limited capacity and sell their services to the highest bidder (which won't be companies like SJG).

So of course new companies can be founded in that businesses but they have to buy machines which will be more expensive due to tariffs. And for these you need loans which might be difficult to get in that kind of business.

And then you still have the labour shortage in the USA to deal with.

Quote from: jeff37923 on Today at 03:53:17 AMSJG is supposed to be creative and brilliant with the game business, but he isn't showing it.

For decades the aerospace industry has used mom & pop garage type CNC outfits to manufacture their small parts under a subcontractor agreement. Considering the wild proliferation of 3D printers, there is no reason why SJG can't go this same route with boardgame pieces.

Except he wouldn't be able to whine about Trump if he did.

This was the whole point.

Quote from: Coffeecup on Today at 04:51:22 AMFirst of all being creative and brilliant with designing games doesn't mean that they have a clue about brilliant and creative means of production.

Regarding the use of 3D printers: These cost money and now they become even more expensive due to tariffs. TTRPG companies usually don't have that much money and banks are also not that open to handing out loans at a reasonable rate to such companies.

Additionally you need paper printers for TTRPGs which are also becoming more and more expensive due to tariffs. We are not talking here about your usual HP printer on your desk.

And all this has to be done at a reasonable price.
Then you need paper and you need to ask yourself wether it is being imported or not. Additionally you have to store the raw material for the printing which means additional costs.

Furthermore you need people to operate the printers. So you need professionals.
But currently you have a labour shortage (so hard that Florida is making it's child labour laws more lax) in the USA and finding expert labour for an industry which has been outsourced is difficult and expensive.

So in each case you have to pay more - the questions are
a) How much more (will it still be cheaper to produce in China than in the USA)?
b) How good will the quality be (proven quality by made in China vs unknown quality by made in the USA).

A few significant disagreements:

1): You don't need the best 3D printers in the world to make tabletop game components. Most 3D printers in this category go for less than $500. You could mark up most of them over 200% and the cost would still be at or below $1000 per unit. Obviously the plastic filaments or resin also cost, but my point is that this is not a particularly unapproachable expense for tabletop game companies.

2): The shortage for printing services is actually in bookbinding equipment, not printers. Most office supply stores maintain printers which are as good or better than what is needed to print books out, but they tend to not have bookbinding supplies for things other than spiral bound books. The industry will need to go through teething, but that shouldn't surprise, anyone.

3) International shipping from Southeast Asia means that quality will almost certainly go up because locally produced books can be produced at the same humidity they are intended to be kept in. SE Asia printing has a lot of problems caused by the heat and humidity. When you take paper products out of the heat and humidity they were created in, they tend to warp as they dry out or absorb moisture.