Who is or was "Agent Denton"? I noticed that he or she got banned over at the SJG forums and in one post explicitly referred to 'this' thread here by name.

Just wondering....
-Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar on July 19, 2022, 10:15:09 PM
This thread is starting to feel a little bit to political to be in the "RPG" section of the forum.

That is just my feeling or opinion.

People online and in this forum have often assumed me to be 'conservative' - but many of the posts I have read in this thread make me feel like a 'moderate' or middle of the road type.

Also, I am currently running a GURPS campaign that is set in the 'Star Trek' universe.

- Ed C.

Oh cool. What source books are you drawing on the most for that campaign?

Wow. It gets worse. I just saw "Illuminati Second Edition 2020" on Ebay. Not sure how I missed this, but I haven't seen anyone mention it here before. Mods: Although technically it relates to a card game (and not an RPG) it is published by Steve Jackson Games, and seems related to this thread. If not, feel free to move it to a more suitable location.

First, some background. Many of you grew up playing the original Illuminati card game in the 80's; or the collectible version, Illuminati: new World Order in the 90's. Both of those games were fun card games about conspiracies vying for world domination. They took an even-handed stance when it came to politics, mildly poking fun at both sides of the aisle. There were cards for both Bill Clinton and Al Gore, as well as Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

The new game looks like an expansion that mostly focuses on Covid. While I haven't seen the entirety of the new game—and if you have, please chime in—the cards I see on Ebay are woke and one-sided. Examples:

Black Lives Matter: No artwork. Text reads: "A turning point for society... this card counts as Special. When it is played, keep it on the table like an NWO, but nothing can remove it."

The Wise Doctor: Obviously Dr. Fauci.

USA #1 (in deaths): Probably meant to be Covid deaths (but according to Wikipedia, we're #21.)

Autonomous Zones: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people behind a barricade with a tent in the background. Alignment is fanatic and liberal, so this probably is meant to represent CHAZ/CHOP.

Mass Demonstrations: Artwork shows happy, diverse, peaceful people wearing masks. (Probably meant to be BLM/Antifa, but it is hard to tell since nothing is on fire.)

Covidiots: Artwork shows angry virus hoaxers. Three are wearing red caps, one is holding a sign about the Bill of Rights. Everyone in the artwork is white.

Pro-virus Rallies: Artwork shows angry people spreading the virus. Five people wearing red caps, everyone in the artwork is white.

That Guy: Although you can't see the figure's face, the orange skin, red tie, and small hands are obviously a thinly-veiled reference to Trump. The card's alignment is: conservative, criminal, and violent.

Statue Smashers: The only card I see ridiculing the Left, making fun of people who indiscriminately topple statues.


I saw this game as an auction on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265035475759?hash=item3db5586b2f:g:3TAAAOSwTVxiVn0y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4FlsUR9w4dTZC3X6ZU7zI8o3HFgqqNBQSxDWd3o6ywgPVhGZ1S0ZwNtVU7mTjzVpkXpoRbumfS2WdHPN1lbxI6SdnFOZ4t58IdySv3T02u3pxtJc70dLieDVhn5bz36HKXW%2FyXzl6Ei7bOcClmCgLWq9LQ505Sn%2BD19%2FOpd1FFk9nd%2FgfPhlPJp87Am3qAfD5N4n9WdIVCbKaF8Ag3Sx4TmmMpNjgBzX0uDExMQlck%2F0KG92OravTx9uny2LBCIBp9UrqfWe3t46WZle0JDAn0ErC%2F70%2B61ybaL8WXMezn%2F2%7Ctkp%3ABFBM0OqRncNg

Oddly enough, when I search for it on the SJG website, it gives a 404:

https://www.sjgames.com/ourgames/card.html

Quote from: Koltar on July 19, 2022, 10:15:09 PM
This thread is starting to feel a little bit to political to be in the "RPG" section of the forum.

That is just my feeling or opinion.

People online and in this forum have often assumed me to be 'conservative' - but many of the posts I have read in this thread make me feel like a 'moderate' or middle of the road type.

Also, I am currently running a GURPS campaign that is set in the 'Star Trek' universe.

- Ed C.

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

(Edited or deleted....for good reasons)

- Ed C.

Quote"Helping someone affected by one of the mass shootings that the right, and the Court, seem to be fostering out of sheer vicious perversity."

According to SJG the political right is behind all mass shootings. All of 2020 somehow didn't register.

Quote from: Koltar on July 20, 2022, 08:25:15 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

No, it really hasn't been or was not 'political'. It always takes place around 200 years or so into the future - so of course things have 'changed' - usually for the better.

That used to be called 'progressive' or 'future thinking', it wasn't political.

- Ed C.

Tell that to the wokies.

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/fox-news-star-trek-woke-politics-wrong#:~:text=Star%20Trek%20has%20always%20been%20political%2C%20and%20conservatives%20might%20want,new%2C%20and%20therefore%2C%20wrong.

https://www.cultureslate.com/news/always-political-star-treks-lifelong-crusade-for-progress

https://www.looper.com/863925/times-when-star-trek-got-seriously-political/

https://gamerant.com/star-treks-original-series-science-fiction-political/

Quote from: Koltar on July 20, 2022, 08:25:15 AM

That used to be called 'progressive' or 'future thinking', it wasn't political.

That progressive has always been political is also what Steven Jackson games apparently doesn't understand (or pretend to understand, hard to tell the difference), and can also explain where the tone deafness comes from.  So given the shared delusion, it would make sense why you are having a hard time understanding the response.

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM
Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

   Please define the term 'political' in this context.

  The ambiguity of the term is one of the reasons I prefer 'partisan', 'polemical', or 'heavy-handed' for elements in media that take me out of the setting or rub me the wrong way.

Quote from: Koltar on July 20, 2022, 08:25:15 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

No, it really hasn't been or was not 'political'. It always takes place around 200 years or so into the future - so of course things have 'changed' - usually for the better.

That used to be called 'progressive' or 'future thinking', it wasn't political.

- Ed C.

Yes, it dealt with political themes, but it was neither preachy nor propaganda and it sure as fuck wasn't commie scum propaganda. It had the kind of progressivism only scumbags would disagree with, and it was pro freedom, even in TNG.

Noe progressives ARE the scum who is pro segregation, anti missegenation, anti freedom, and STD (aptly named show) is nothing but political propaganda for "The Message! tm"

Quote from: Koltar on July 19, 2022, 10:15:09 PM
This thread is starting to feel a little bit to political to be in the "RPG" section of the forum.

That is just my feeling or opinion.

People online and in this forum have often assumed me to be 'conservative' - but many of the posts I have read in this thread make me feel like a 'moderate' or middle of the road type.

Also, I am currently running a GURPS campaign that is set in the 'Star Trek' universe.

- Ed C.

If you don't agree with woke idiots you're "conservative" or (more commonly) "right-wing", even if your actual policy positions don't actually align with what was originally understood by those terms. They have become completely meaningless. That being said there are aspects of SJ's comments that go beyond whether you identify with any political tribe. Some of the things he said were questionable or inaccurate and deeply speculative partisan attacks that included accusing "conservatives"/the "right" for being responsible for all mass shootings and ridiculous ideas like instituting a national tithe everyone would be forced to pay. And they were laced with woke language about being a privileged white male and such.

I will grant you that some of the comments here (perhaps most) are for more "conservative" in the original meaning of the term than I am, but I abhor falsehoods (including false framings) or woke nonsense.

Quote from: Koltar on July 20, 2022, 08:25:15 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

No, it really hasn't been or was not 'political'. It always takes place around 200 years or so into the future - so of course things have 'changed' - usually for the better.

That used to be called 'progressive' or 'future thinking', it wasn't political.


- Ed C.

progressive did not mean "forward thinking" to 20th century progressives.  actually meant white purity, eugenics, and a hatred for the US Constitution.  Look up the history of pregressivism.  It meant to "progress" past individual rights and toward a society where "rights" are granted by an authoritarian state.

Quote from: Aglondir on July 20, 2022, 01:38:03 AM
Wow. It gets worse. I just saw "Illuminati Second Edition 2020" on Ebay. Not sure how I missed this, but I haven't seen anyone mention it here before. Mods: Although technically it relates to a card game (and not an RPG) it is published by Steve Jackson Games, and seems related to this thread. If not, feel free to move it to a more suitable location.

First, some background. Many of you grew up playing the original Illuminati card game in the 80's; or the collectible version, Illuminati: new World Order in the 90's. Both of those games were fun card games about conspiracies vying for world domination. They took an even-handed stance when it came to politics, mildly poking fun at both sides of the aisle. There were cards for both Bill Clinton and Al Gore, as well as Ronald Reagan and George Bush.

The new game looks like an expansion that mostly focuses on Covid. While I haven't seen the entirety of the new game—and if you have, please chime in—the cards I see on Ebay are woke and one-sided. Examples:

Black Lives Matter: No artwork. Text reads: "A turning point for society... this card counts as Special. When it is played, keep it on the table like an NWO, but nothing can remove it."
[list of cards and astute analysis)
I saw this game as an auction on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265035475759?hash=item3db5586b2f:g:3TAAAOSwTVxiVn0y&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4FlsUR9w4dTZC3X6ZU7zI8o3HFgqqNBQSxDWd3o6ywgPVhGZ1S0ZwNtVU7mTjzVpkXpoRbumfS2WdHPN1lbxI6SdnFOZ4t58IdySv3T02u3pxtJc70dLieDVhn5bz36HKXW%2FyXzl6Ei7bOcClmCgLWq9LQ505Sn%2BD19%2FOpd1FFk9nd%2FgfPhlPJp87Am3qAfD5N4n9WdIVCbKaF8Ag3Sx4TmmMpNjgBzX0uDExMQlck%2F0KG92OravTx9uny2LBCIBp9UrqfWe3t46WZle0JDAn0ErC%2F70%2B61ybaL8WXMezn%2F2%7Ctkp%3ABFBM0OqRncNg

Oddly enough, when I search for it on the SJG website, it gives a 404:

https://www.sjgames.com/ourgames/card.html

I saw that expansion before.[/list]

Quote from: Koltar on July 20, 2022, 08:25:15 AM

Quote from: Shasarak on July 20, 2022, 02:25:38 AM

Luckily for you Star Trek has always been political.

No, it really hasn't been or was not 'political'. It always takes place around 200 years or so into the future - so of course things have 'changed' - usually for the better.

That used to be called 'progressive' or 'future thinking', it wasn't political.

- Ed C.

I CALL BULLSHIT ON THAT!

Star Trek has always had political commentary stories in it. To deny that is to deny reality.

This is not the place to discuss the politics of Star Trek. People who keep derailing the thread with that off-topic discussion, or any other off-topic discussion, will be banned.