Steve Jackson Games Goes Red on the Woke Meter

HappyDaze · July 14, 2022, 05:57:14 PM

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on July 14, 2022, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: HappyDaze on July 14, 2022, 08:29:21 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on July 14, 2022, 01:02:54 AM
Quote from: Reckall on July 08, 2022, 07:46:45 AM
Quote from: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 07:35:03 AM
Damn! I always had evil Stevie pegged as a solid conservative. Maybe I misjudged him. Gotta check this out. Thanks, cr!

Maybe he is but not on this matter.

Speaking for me, I use to have my opinions on a score of topics. You could say that most of them fall within a certain political spectrum but some extremely don't. I don't like for an external complex of ideologies to dictate how I must think, which is why I never entered politics.

Maybe he's just trying to get his ESG score up.
I never pictured him as a Lyran.
I get that refference! Although why you'd want an ESG instead of like.. some disruptors, or the very fun to fire Plasma-R torpedoes I will never know.

Because in a game with no ramming rules, someone will still want to ram your ship.

Slambo · July 14, 2022, 08:43:07 PM

Quote from: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 01:38:36 PM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on July 14, 2022, 01:13:00 AM
I think the real salient point is that it's not the executives or owners or whatever of a company donating to some cause or another. It's them standing on the digital mountaintop, proclaiming, "This is what our company stands for." I might be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think Chick-fil-A ever said, "Our company policy is to oppose gay marriage," but rather that the owners of the company just donated money to causes they believed in.

I think you're remembering incorrectly. Chick-fil-A's CEO has made a number of public statements about gay marriage in the past, such as here:

QuoteAppearing on "The Ken Coleman Show," Cathy spoke of his company's pride in its socially conservative character, but then offered an assessment of same-sex marriage that might lose the popular fast food chain a few customers.

I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,'" said Cathy.

"I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we would have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is all about," he added.

https://dailycaller.com/2012/07/18/chick-fil-a-president-gay-marriage-is-inviting-gods-judgment-on-our-nation-audio/

That said, I don't think it's wrong for companies to have public opinions. I think it's fine for there to be a Christian restaurant or a Jewish coffeeshop or a Wiccan bookstore or similar. That said, it's also fine to boycott companies whose values one disagrees with enough.

Truett Cathy has been dead since 2014 though.

Effete · July 14, 2022, 10:06:55 PM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 09, 2022, 03:29:12 PM
All understood. My objection isn't with SJWG's absurd positions. It's the part where he said that he'd donate his profits to the Lilith Fund. That's the reason I will no longer buy his products.

Well, I suppose there's a silver lining.
With the expected drop in revenue, after SJG covers overhead costs, etc., there may not be any "profits" for him to donate.

Mistwell · July 15, 2022, 01:13:31 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 13, 2022, 09:24:04 PM
I think that this forum is a better, more enjoyable place with Pat as a member than without him. The level of conversation is certainly elevated with him around.

Agreed. I hope Pat can come back.

As for SJG, I've never played the actual GURPS game but I have several of their books because they're excellent for source material to borrow and adapt to other games. There are just many darn GURPS source books about somewhat obscure but cool topics. And I am just not going to stop buying those when it comes up because SJG says something I disagree with. That said, I don't think SJG puts out anything new these days that I am much interested in.

Effete · July 15, 2022, 03:50:14 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on July 15, 2022, 01:13:31 AM
As for SJG, I've never played the actual GURPS game but I have several of their books because they're excellent for source material to borrow and adapt to other games. There are just many darn GURPS source books about somewhat obscure but cool topics. And I am just not going to stop buying those when it comes up because SJG says something I disagree with. That said, I don't think SJG puts out anything new these days that I am much interested in.

There's always the used book market for those that don't want to directly support SJG but still want them some GURPS. That said, I think the issue is not necessarily giving money to a company that espouses certain politics, but the fact that they said they would use company profits to actively fund such practices. That's turning their customers into tacit supporters of the cause.

I mean, it's his company, he can do what he wants. I'm not going to say it's ethically bankrupt or something stupid like that, but it is a poor business decision.

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE · July 15, 2022, 07:53:34 AM

If you want to play GURPS but not support SJG, just pirate their stuff. There's a torrent floating around that has both 3E and 4e available. If it's not against site rules, I'll post it.

Anyway, also, GURPS is shit and if you want a better generic system, go play FFG's Genesys instead.

Zalman · July 15, 2022, 08:03:50 AM

Quote from: Innocent Smith on July 14, 2022, 01:13:00 AM
I think the real salient point is that it's not the executives or owners or whatever of a company donating to some cause or another. It's them standing on the digital mountaintop, proclaiming, "This is what our company stands for." I might be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think Chick-fil-A ever said, "Our company policy is to oppose gay marriage," but rather that the owners of the company just donated money to causes they believed in.

The Lilith thing just comes off as cringe new age LARPing to me, like most "witchy" things.

Totally, you nailed it. And even if the company owners do have that opinion personally, that's still a vastly different than announcing it publicly as company policy. In Chick-fil-A's case, the owners were asked their opinion, with the express purpose of making a fuss about it. Steve Jackson on the other hand went out of his way to initiate the conversation, and associate his personal opinion with his company and product.

oggsmash · July 15, 2022, 08:45:55 AM

Quote from: Zalman on July 15, 2022, 08:03:50 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on July 14, 2022, 01:13:00 AM
I think the real salient point is that it's not the executives or owners or whatever of a company donating to some cause or another. It's them standing on the digital mountaintop, proclaiming, "This is what our company stands for." I might be remembering incorrectly, but I don't think Chick-fil-A ever said, "Our company policy is to oppose gay marriage," but rather that the owners of the company just donated money to causes they believed in.

The Lilith thing just comes off as cringe new age LARPing to me, like most "witchy" things.

Totally, you nailed it. And even if the company owners do have that opinion personally, that's still a vastly different than announcing it publicly as company policy. In Chick-fil-A's case, the owners were asked their opinion, with the express purpose of making a fuss about it. Steve Jackson on the other hand went out of his way to initiate the conversation, and associate his personal opinion with his company and product.

Yeah the Chik fil A thing was a big fishing expedition (like it is a grand mystery that a company that LOSES hundreds of millions of dollars to be closed on Sunday would cling to some basic, fundamental christian values.....) and when the media tried to black ball them it blew up in their face in the most hysterical way possible (literally looked like the scene of a concert inside and around every chik fil a with all the people packing into the stores). So maybe....this will give SJG a massive boost? Or perhaps the mass appeal to what he makes rants about just is not there?

Abraxus · July 15, 2022, 11:23:54 AM

The difference is that Gurps is not something that people like like their meals. One does not need it to survive. People like their specific favourite foods.

SJG might get a few more sales yet even then if they did not have Munchkin to beef up their sales they would be in the same financial position as Hero Games.

I will also plead on clemency on behalf of Pat, yet won't blame Pundit if he maintains the ban.

Both were given permanent ban warnings both chose to ignore the warning. So they have no one to blame but themselves for being banned.

Stephen Tannhauser · July 15, 2022, 11:37:15 AM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 15, 2022, 08:45:55 AM
So maybe....this will give SJG a massive boost? Or perhaps the mass appeal to what he makes rants about just is not there?

I think it's less that the appeal is not there -- the RPG hobby market base is probably generally more in agreement with SJG on the topic than not -- but more that it seems unlikely to bring in customers they don't already have; and as I've already said, it strikes me as very unlikely to bring in enough business to make up for what they'll lose, even if that's not all that much. RPGs are just not a large enough hobby base that deliberately fracturing your audience seems like a good business strategy, to me.

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE · July 15, 2022, 12:35:39 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 15, 2022, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on July 15, 2022, 08:45:55 AM
So maybe....this will give SJG a massive boost? Or perhaps the mass appeal to what he makes rants about just is not there?

I think it's less that the appeal is not there -- the RPG hobby market base is probably generally more in agreement with SJG on the topic than not -- but more that it seems unlikely to bring in customers they don't already have; and as I've already said, it strikes me as very unlikely to bring in enough business to make up for what they'll lose, even if that's not all that much. RPGs are just not a large enough hobby base that deliberately fracturing your audience seems like a good business strategy, to me.

I dunno, maybe they're hoping that the MASSIVE influx of "people" into the hobby from 5e will cause some people to switch to different systems. Then they can show off their virtue signaling and be like "Look at how nice we are, try our game."

Mistwell · July 15, 2022, 04:07:36 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 15, 2022, 12:35:39 PM
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 15, 2022, 11:37:15 AM
Quote from: oggsmash on July 15, 2022, 08:45:55 AM
So maybe....this will give SJG a massive boost? Or perhaps the mass appeal to what he makes rants about just is not there?

I think it's less that the appeal is not there -- the RPG hobby market base is probably generally more in agreement with SJG on the topic than not -- but more that it seems unlikely to bring in customers they don't already have; and as I've already said, it strikes me as very unlikely to bring in enough business to make up for what they'll lose, even if that's not all that much. RPGs are just not a large enough hobby base that deliberately fracturing your audience seems like a good business strategy, to me.

I dunno, maybe they're hoping that the MASSIVE influx of "people" into the hobby from 5e will cause some people to switch to different systems. Then they can show off their virtue signaling and be like "Look at how nice we are, try our game."

Why are you scare-quoting the word people?

RPGPundit · July 15, 2022, 05:37:16 PM

Quote from: drayakir on July 15, 2022, 07:53:34 AM
If you want to play GURPS but not support SJG, just pirate their stuff. There's a torrent floating around that has both 3E and 4e available. If it's not against site rules, I'll post it.

Anyway, also, GURPS is shit and if you want a better generic system, go play FFG's Genesys instead.

Sharing information or links to filesharing sites is against site rules because of the legal implications. So don't do that or you'll be banned.

I HATE THE DEMIURGE I HATE THE DEMIURGE · July 15, 2022, 06:19:36 PM

Because I've seen gatekeeping fail before, on Eternal September, and when Hot Topic opened, and am seeing it now with RPGs. They're not people, they're mops.

Koltar · July 15, 2022, 09:17:28 PM

As someone who is often assumed to be 'Conservative'(I'm not) - this announcement or post by Steve Jackson himself does not bother me at all.

I will keep buying SJG products and games...and I will keep reffing GURPS.

- Ed C.