Quote from: Timothe on July 10, 2022, 03:31:17 PM
What do you mean by Law major? Did he go to Law School or did he just select a vague "Pre-Law" major while an undergrad?

If I remember right, he was a law student in a Texas college or university, when he answered a Help Wanted ad for a proofreader or line editor from Metagaming Concepts.  It must have helped him when he won the rights to Ogre when he left that company, and defending himself when the SS raided his place, and when he secured the rights to The Fantasy Trip RPG a few years ago.

It would have been nice if he'd mentioned this before I spent a good chunk of my gaming budget on GURPS stuff at Bundle of Holding.  I'm grown-up enough to handle people having different opinions from mine.  Telling me you're going to take my money and use it specifically for something I find morally abhorrent is beyond a difference of opinion.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 10:38:15 AM
Well,  we're not going to let you.

If you want to keep on trying,  you'd better be ready for a fucking war, a real war.

Ten internet bucks on the legion never showing up.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 10, 2022, 03:50:36 PM
I also support free speech.  Unlike SJG, I believe in the Constitution, and will defend his right to free speech, if people attack his right to speak.  I also don't care if Steve Jackson is pro-life or pro-abortion.  I don't believe in boycotts.  But I do believe in things like the woke list, that helps inform consumers, and allow them make a personal

I also support a woke scold list. I don't want to support creators who try and dictate what I can or can't play.

Quote from: S'mon on July 08, 2022, 03:50:12 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 07:35:03 AM
Anyway, abortion is always kinda funny to me. Christians are against it despite their god being a big believer in killing babies before and after birth. If they'd learn to read and read their Bible's  instead of waving them they'd know that. But in the bible killing babies isn't the womans choice and she usually dies too. Apparently they only object to it when it's the woman's choice and she survives.

Old Testament Jehovah & Jesus Christ are pretty different.

Well they're both fictional if that helps.

Quote from: Leon_ap_Hywel on July 10, 2022, 06:58:35 PM

Quote from: S'mon on July 08, 2022, 03:50:12 PM

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 08, 2022, 07:35:03 AM
Anyway, abortion is always kinda funny to me. Christians are against it despite their god being a big believer in killing babies before and after birth. If they'd learn to read and read their Bible's  instead of waving them they'd know that. But in the bible killing babies isn't the womans choice and she usually dies too. Apparently they only object to it when it's the woman's choice and she survives.

Old Testament Jehovah & Jesus Christ are pretty different.

Well they're both fictional if that helps.

Absolutely...

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 10, 2022, 01:24:49 PM


One of the hallmarks of Wokeness is the belief that nothing is "apolitical", and that anyone who seeks to create an arena of life (like what games one plays for leisure entertainment) where politics is unnecessary or irrelevant is really only seeking to create a bubble where their politics reign unquestioned. Public declarations of position are designed as much to force people out of their supposed "pretenses of neutrality" as they are to strengthen one's own side. The toxicity of this approach to politics is that by definition, it's unfalsifiable: if pleading for a neutral space is never believed to be anything but a stalling or disengagement tactic, then neutral spaces become impossible.  (It has been used by other political alignments as well, q.v. Bush's famous, "You are either with us or with the terrorists," but the universality of this stance is, I think, a uniquely Woke thing.)

Uh, yeah. The right politicized data on smoking causing cancer because big tobacco wanted it discredited. The right politicized data on human influenced climate change because big oil wanted it discredited, it politicized 911 because big oil wanted to steal Iraq's oil and defense contractors wanted a nice profitable war. The right  politicized healthcare reform because big medicorps wanted to keep their profits high. The right politicized covid to divide America.  The right has politicized American history to create strife and division .

I think Steve Jackson is sadly a broken man, he lost his long term partner a year or two ago (not to Covid) and then he and the company jumped onboard the extreme Covid fear train, masking up in zoom calls and so on. Nearing 70 his hormones are probably shot, so he's basically just a puddle of irritability and suggestibility.
That's my read, sad way for a man and a company to go. They'll probably be out of business in a couple of years, at least I hope so, if only to serve as an object lesson that firing half your customer base has consequences.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 07:08:28 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 10, 2022, 01:24:49 PM


One of the hallmarks of Wokeness is the belief that nothing is "apolitical", and that anyone who seeks to create an arena of life (like what games one plays for leisure entertainment) where politics is unnecessary or irrelevant is really only seeking to create a bubble where their politics reign unquestioned. Public declarations of position are designed as much to force people out of their supposed "pretenses of neutrality" as they are to strengthen one's own side. The toxicity of this approach to politics is that by definition, it's unfalsifiable: if pleading for a neutral space is never believed to be anything but a stalling or disengagement tactic, then neutral spaces become impossible.  (It has been used by other political alignments as well, q.v. Bush's famous, "You are either with us or with the terrorists," but the universality of this stance is, I think, a uniquely Woke thing.)

Uh, yeah. The right politicized data on smoking causing cancer because big tobacco wanted it discredited. The right politicized data on human influenced climate change because big oil wanted it discredited, it politicized 911 because big oil wanted to steal Iraq's oil and defense contractors wanted a nice profitable war. The right  politicized healthcare reform because big medicorps wanted to keep their profits high. The right politicized covid to divide America.  The right has politicized American history to create strife and division .

Hark! The Leftist Wanker sings!
Repeating all the same old things!
Fa La La La La, La La La La!

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 10, 2022, 12:49:24 PM
I don't think this is really a woke decision per se... This is about being pro or anti-abortion and not necessarily about the other ridiculous woke-scold nonsense that certain game companies shove down your throat. Of course, I'm pro-abortion but I'm certainly and virulently against uber political correctness.

But what if a game company came out and made a statement saying that they were delighted with the Roe V Wade thing being overturned. Would they not be entitled to make such a statement? Even though I might not agree at all with their sentiments.

I just don't believe you are automatically 'uber woke' if you're against abortion. So as far as I'm concerned I'm happy to still buy their stuff.

Did you read the statement? The guy went on about being a privileged straight white male, then started veering off into wild speculation about a bunch of other unrelated stuff, like transgender people losing access to treatment, gay marriage being repealed, etc. It goes well beyond simple support for abortion.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 07:08:28 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 10, 2022, 01:24:49 PM


One of the hallmarks of Wokeness is the belief that nothing is "apolitical", and that anyone who seeks to create an arena of life (like what games one plays for leisure entertainment) where politics is unnecessary or irrelevant is really only seeking to create a bubble where their politics reign unquestioned. Public declarations of position are designed as much to force people out of their supposed "pretenses of neutrality" as they are to strengthen one's own side. The toxicity of this approach to politics is that by definition, it's unfalsifiable: if pleading for a neutral space is never believed to be anything but a stalling or disengagement tactic, then neutral spaces become impossible.  (It has been used by other political alignments as well, q.v. Bush's famous, "You are either with us or with the terrorists," but the universality of this stance is, I think, a uniquely Woke thing.)

Uh, yeah. The right politicized data on smoking causing cancer because big tobacco wanted it discredited. The right politicized data on human influenced climate change because big oil wanted it discredited, it politicized 911 because big oil wanted to steal Iraq's oil and defense contractors wanted a nice profitable war. The right  politicized healthcare reform because big medicorps wanted to keep their profits high. The right politicized covid to divide America.  The right has politicized American history to create strife and division .

Are you capable of addressing the stuff that people actually said without brining up a bunch of completely unrelated whataboutisms about stuff that the "right" is supposedly solely responsible for that isn't even accurate? The "right" didn't politicize data about smoking. Not every stunt that big corporations pull to get away with nefarious shit immediately falls in the lap of the "right", just because they're corporations and the right is supposedly pro-corporations (cuz the "left" apparently isn't these days). The "left" politicized climate change too. And healthcare. And covid. And NONE of this is even relevant to the discussion or even refutes anything that Stephen Tannhauser said. It's just partisan diarrhea.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 10, 2022, 08:43:44 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 10, 2022, 12:49:24 PM
I don't think this is really a woke decision per se... This is about being pro or anti-abortion and not necessarily about the other ridiculous woke-scold nonsense that certain game companies shove down your throat. Of course, I'm pro-abortion but I'm certainly and virulently against uber political correctness.

But what if a game company came out and made a statement saying that they were delighted with the Roe V Wade thing being overturned. Would they not be entitled to make such a statement? Even though I might not agree at all with their sentiments.

I just don't believe you are automatically 'uber woke' if you're against abortion. So as far as I'm concerned I'm happy to still buy their stuff.

Did you read the statement? The guy went on about being a privileged straight white male, then started veering off into wild speculation about a bunch of other unrelated stuff, like transgender people losing access to treatment, gay marriage being repealed, etc. It goes well beyond simple support for abortion.

[

Yes, once again a 'wokist' slams the right by using WORDS THAT CAME OUT OF RIGHT WING LEADERS MOUTHS to accuse the right of wanting to do extremist things.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-reconsider-contraception-gay-marriage-rulings

God is there no limit to their vileness?!?!

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 09:15:35 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 10, 2022, 08:43:44 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 10, 2022, 12:49:24 PM
I don't think this is really a woke decision per se... This is about being pro or anti-abortion and not necessarily about the other ridiculous woke-scold nonsense that certain game companies shove down your throat. Of course, I'm pro-abortion but I'm certainly and virulently against uber political correctness.

But what if a game company came out and made a statement saying that they were delighted with the Roe V Wade thing being overturned. Would they not be entitled to make such a statement? Even though I might not agree at all with their sentiments.

I just don't believe you are automatically 'uber woke' if you're against abortion. So as far as I'm concerned I'm happy to still buy their stuff.

Did you read the statement? The guy went on about being a privileged straight white male, then started veering off into wild speculation about a bunch of other unrelated stuff, like transgender people losing access to treatment, gay marriage being repealed, etc. It goes well beyond simple support for abortion.

[

Yes, once again a 'wokist' slams the right by using WORDS THAT CAME OUT OF RIGHT WING LEADERS MOUTHS to accuse the right of wanting to do extremist things.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clarence-thomas-supreme-court-reconsider-contraception-gay-marriage-rulings

God is there no limit to their vileness?!?!

There is no limit.

Its vileness all the way down until you are donating to Lilith to kill babies.

Quote from: VisionStorm on July 10, 2022, 08:43:44 PM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on July 10, 2022, 12:49:24 PM
I don't think this is really a woke decision per se... This is about being pro or anti-abortion and not necessarily about the other ridiculous woke-scold nonsense that certain game companies shove down your throat. Of course, I'm pro-abortion but I'm certainly and virulently against uber political correctness.

But what if a game company came out and made a statement saying that they were delighted with the Roe V Wade thing being overturned. Would they not be entitled to make such a statement? Even though I might not agree at all with their sentiments.

I just don't believe you are automatically 'uber woke' if you're against abortion. So as far as I'm concerned I'm happy to still buy their stuff.

Did you read the statement? The guy went on about being a privileged straight white male, then started veering off into wild speculation about a bunch of other unrelated stuff, like transgender people losing access to treatment, gay marriage being repealed, etc. It goes well beyond simple support for abortion.

Yes, I read the entire thing.  I'm not saying that SJ is not woke, or not in lockstep with the extreme-left ideology.  I just say that I believe he sincerely believes all this nonsense, and not doing it to virtue signal so government leaves him alone.

EDIT: I thought you were addressing me.

Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 07:08:28 PMThe right politicized data on smoking ... human influenced climate change ... 9/11 ... healthcare reform ... covid ... American history ....

I'm not sure you and I are using the word "politicized" in the same way. To note that political disagreement over a topic exists, or to be deliberately selective in how one interprets data to support a particular policy, is not to "politicize" it.

"Politicizing" as I mean the word is to introduce political content, purpose, or dimensions into an environment or activity where it isn't inherently necessary, in this case gaming. The "Sad Puppies" campaigns, prior to the pandemic, were making the same case about the Hugo Awards for science fiction: the Puppies pointed out that for years an effective though unstated prerequisite for winning was to write works that subscribed to particular social and political agendas, and that the Hugos had been effectively politicized. In return, they were constantly accused of using their stated desire to get politics out of the Hugos as merely a disguise for the insertion of their own. (As you yourself note to be a problem, the people dismissing the Puppies' arguments deliberately refused to consider the possibility that the Puppies were simply honestly acting on impartial ideals, and attributed their criticisms solely to a desire to win awards for the kind of books that they liked.)

I make no secret of my own stance on the particular topic SJG has chosen to support. That he has chosen to support it is his prerogative. That he has essentially forced those of his audience who don't agree with him to choose between enjoying his products and staying true to their own values -- thus politicizing the act of purchasing his entertainment products -- is the stance I wish he hadn't taken, and that I don't think he had to take.

Quote from: S'mon on July 08, 2022, 06:21:58 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 08, 2022, 06:04:09 AM
Today's announcement from Steve Jackson Games is full-steam partisan/activist/pro-abortion.  I don't care what side you fall on: pro-abortion, or the side that's on the right side of history.  Right to privacy?  Keep your extremism private.

Official word from Steve Jackson, alienating the majority of people.
http://www.sjgames.com/ill/archive/July_08_2022/Roe_v_Wade

They states that they'll donate profits to help murder children.  (Link to the "charity" http://www.lilithfund.org )

Lilith fund?!  ROTFLMAO! They should have just called it the Moloch fund.

Exactly. I don't see this as merely a "woke" issue, but even more as a satanic issue.....and when I say this, I am not engaging in narrative hyperbole.

Yes, Steve Jackson used to be known for creating innovative rpgs. But now? That's debatable.

I will try to ignore the unbelievably lame Luciferian edgelord Illuminati symbol on his website (for now), and instead mention that this tabletop rpg publisher is being incredibly self-righteous (on his tabletop gaming website) about defending the evils of the abortion industry.

The abortion industry has always been primarily about being a satanic ritual, involving child sacrifice.

Issues of "women's rights" were always a smokescreen, which is obvious....once we see current demands for people (including women) to submit to dangerous medical experimentation and genetic modification, and surrender all bodily autonomy to vaccine manufacturers, who have no legal liability whatsoever.....and do so, under the most flimsy of excuses.

Ordinarily, I would just dismiss Jackson as some selfish, Godless Boomer asshole who just happens to be ignorant of what abortion really is and what it represents.

But then he self-righteously virtue signals about donating to a pro-abortion fund named after a DEMON, that is known primarily for its MURDER OF CHILDREN?

No. Seriously, no.

That is waaaaaay too creepy, evil, and weird for me to tolerate or ignore. There is simply no way that Jackson is unaware of the religious significance of the name of that fund, or the religious and moral significance of the abortion industry itself. NO. FUCKING. WAY. So I will be "noping" the fuck out, and will be boycotting this company. Fuck Steve Jackson, fuck his company, fuck his games, and fuck his satanic legacy.

And for the record, I have GURPS 3E and multiple supplements for it. It was a great game. I suggest that people create clones of all his games, and let Jackson's precious little Boomer retirement fund (SJG) just fade away...

....with a whimper.