Quote from: Battlemaster on July 10, 2022, 07:08:28 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on July 10, 2022, 01:24:49 PM


One of the hallmarks of Wokeness is the belief that nothing is "apolitical", and that anyone who seeks to create an arena of life (like what games one plays for leisure entertainment) where politics is unnecessary or irrelevant is really only seeking to create a bubble where their politics reign unquestioned. Public declarations of position are designed as much to force people out of their supposed "pretenses of neutrality" as they are to strengthen one's own side. The toxicity of this approach to politics is that by definition, it's unfalsifiable: if pleading for a neutral space is never believed to be anything but a stalling or disengagement tactic, then neutral spaces become impossible.  (It has been used by other political alignments as well, q.v. Bush's famous, "You are either with us or with the terrorists," but the universality of this stance is, I think, a uniquely Woke thing.)

Uh, yeah. The right politicized data on smoking causing cancer because big tobacco wanted it discredited. The right politicized data on human influenced climate change because big oil wanted it discredited, it politicized 911 because big oil wanted to steal Iraq's oil and defense contractors wanted a nice profitable war. The right  politicized healthcare reform because big medicorps wanted to keep their profits high. The right politicized covid to divide America.  The right has politicized American history to create strife and division .

Nonsense. 

Battlemaster is a troll.  and I posted a reply to him, but I know it's best not to reply to trolls, so I'm sorry I took the bait and removed the reply.

Did you know that SJ had a nother RPg too, Fantasy Trip.  Everyone talks about grups but the game grew out of Fantasy Trip, something in print now.

Never a great thing to see companies go red on the meter, at least from my perspective. Even when it's self destructive I feel like it energizes that trend towards a woke-dominated industry. People follow other companies even off of cliffs like lemmings. Probably thinking it's the new hip thing or whatever.

Also, much though I seldom agreed with Battlemaster, his dissenting opinion and ability to start conversations and debate will be missed. Probably not quite as much as Pat, but hey, the latter did some pretty solid research and was a valuable source of information, so yeah.

I am probably going to have to be careful myself about inadvertently steering threads into other realms of discussion going forward. Because at times I've been not much better, especially in threads like the RPG.net one, where Pat actually had to warn me, lol. Though I guess that at least was in the more political subforum.

Quote from: KindaMeh on July 12, 2022, 09:49:46 PM
Never a great thing to see companies go red on the meter, at least from my perspective. Even when it's self destructive I feel like it energizes that trend towards a woke-dominated industry. People follow other companies even off of cliffs like lemmings. Probably thinking it's the new hip thing or whatever.

Also, much though I seldom agreed with Battlemaster, his dissenting opinion and ability to start conversations and debate will be missed. Probably not quite as much as Pat, but hey, the latter did some pretty solid research and was a valuable source of information, so yeah.

I am probably going to have to be careful myself about inadvertently steering threads into other realms of discussion going forward. Because at times I've been not much better, especially in threads like the RPG.net one, where Pat actually had to warn me, lol. Though I guess that at least was in the more political subforum.

Battlemaster won't be missed by me. How fucking hard is it to talk about tabletop rpgs in the tabletop rpg subforum? That knucklehead wasn't here to discuss roleplaying games. With him, it was just "Trump, Trumptards, Civil War, fascism, blah, blah". I read his posts, and thought, "yeah, I get it, whatever....but what does this have to do with tabletop games?"

In regards to Steve Jackson Games, I'll freely admit he published some great stuff. I liked reading through GURPS 3e, and the game provides tons of great ideas (and stimulates creativity) if you're into game design. And my friends and I used to play Munchkin ALL THE TIME. I even have Jackson's d20 Munchkin rpg, and it wasn't horrible.

That said, I don't trust Steve Jackson any more. I don't need game designers to agree with me on everything, or even agree with me in most things.....but I do have limits in regards to how much moral depravity I'm willing to endure. If we're willing to give money to a man who (practically speaking) funds a satanic organization that advocates the murder of children, just so we can have our precious elf games....then we are morally culpable for his evil actions.

For the record, I fully understand people giving money to big corporations and banks, in order to survive (which we all do).....even though it's very likely that the men who control these institutions are monstrously evil. But people don't NEED Munchkin or GURPS in order to put food upon their tables.

When I read Jackson's "Roe v. Wade" article on his site, he betrayed such weakness, selfishness, and fear....that he came across as a broken down man who's sold his own soul, while being extremely self-righteous about it. It's too bad, because I like a lot of his games. But you know what? I can live without it. Maybe it's just best to make some GURPS or Munchkin clones, and watch Steve Jackson Games implode into oblivion.

Good thing I pirate PDFs! Hahaha!

Well, damn.  Pat's one of the more insightful posters on the site.  Though it's very clear he did break the rules, I'll miss his ideas.

Quote from: Mishihari on July 13, 2022, 12:34:08 AM
Well, damn.  Pat's one of the more insightful posters on the site.  Though it's very clear he did break the rules, I'll miss his ideas.

he was often a good poster. The problem is he'd been warned before and kept taking the bait and breaking the rules.

The sad thing is that SJG held out from going woke for such a long time, and their forums and blog posts were basically politics-free. Actually there were a couple of anti-Trump announcements during the most feverish times of the last few years, but they were so few that many people missed them and continued to assume that Steve and by extension his company were low-key right wingers. Let's face it, SJG is an old-guard, white boomer and Southern gaming company and many of the oldest and most loyal fans fit into that category WHILE NOT BEING LOUD ABOUT IT. It's at least 50% of the fan base that is being disrespected. I'm not American, religious or particularly anti-abortion, I just want the fucking culture wars out of my gaming. SJG is on my shitlist after lots of spending and evangelism on their behalf. Steve is an OG game designer and I appreciate his contributions to the hobby, but i hope he retires early and I hope that the more obnoxious staff get made redundant on the back of a major downsizing. Thanks, I already have all the GURPS I need to see me through.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on July 12, 2022, 08:07:14 PM
Battlemaster is a troll.  and I posted a reply to him, but I know it's best not to reply to trolls, so I'm sorry I took the bait and removed the reply.

Did you know that SJ had a nother RPg too, Fantasy Trip.  Everyone talks about grups but the game grew out of Fantasy Trip, something in print now.

He got the bum's rush.  Well deserved. 

Quote from: Mishihari on July 13, 2022, 12:34:08 AM
Well, damn.  Pat's one of the more insightful posters on the site.  Though it's very clear he did break the rules, I'll miss his ideas.

Greetings!

Yeah, I think Pat was great! It is truly sad that a cock-sucking Libtard troll like Battlemaster gets Pat's goat and gets him taken down with him. That is a real loss for this forum. Pat is intelligent, informative, and usually reasonable. Battlemaster is a moron. Just think, Battlemaster couldn't keep the topic focused on SJG, and just loved provoking Pat and anyone else into a shitfest. It is great that someone like Battlemaster is gone. He didn't contribute anything worthwhile to our forum here. PAT, on the other hand, has been a great member and a solid, consistent poster and contributor.

SJG won't really be a loss though in the big picture of things. I think the best work they did was many years ago, and I have all of that. GURPS has become more and more irrelevant as the years pass.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 13, 2022, 06:14:44 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on July 13, 2022, 12:34:08 AM
Well, damn.  Pat's one of the more insightful posters on the site.  Though it's very clear he did break the rules, I'll miss his ideas.

he was often a good poster. The problem is he'd been warned before and kept taking the bait and breaking the rules.

Can Pat request to be unbanned after a time?  A good Virtual Time Out can do people wonders.

Has there been any push back from DTRPG regarding SJG's screed?

Quote from: TheShadow on July 13, 2022, 06:40:21 AM
The sad thing is that SJG held out from going woke for such a long time, and their forums and blog posts were basically politics-free. Actually there were a couple of anti-Trump announcements during the most feverish times of the last few years, but they were so few that many people missed them and continued to assume that Steve and by extension his company were low-key right wingers. Let's face it, SJG is an old-guard, white boomer and Southern gaming company and many of the oldest and most loyal fans fit into that category WHILE NOT BEING LOUD ABOUT IT. It's at least 50% of the fan base that is being disrespected. I'm not American, religious or particularly anti-abortion, I just want the fucking culture wars out of my gaming. SJG is on my shitlist after lots of spending and evangelism on their behalf. Steve is an OG game designer and I appreciate his contributions to the hobby, but i hope he retires early and I hope that the more obnoxious staff get made redundant on the back of a major downsizing. Thanks, I already have all the GURPS I need to see me through.

Agreed. I had all I needed with 3E, and 4E never did anything for me.

I will politely add my voice to those asking for clemency for Pat, as well.

Quote from: THE_Leopold on July 13, 2022, 09:27:16 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 13, 2022, 06:14:44 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on July 13, 2022, 12:34:08 AM
Well, damn.  Pat's one of the more insightful posters on the site.  Though it's very clear he did break the rules, I'll miss his ideas.

he was often a good poster. The problem is he'd been warned before and kept taking the bait and breaking the rules.

Can Pat request to be unbanned after a time?  A good Virtual Time Out can do people wonders.

Has there been any push back from DTRPG regarding SJG's screed?

I got into a bunch of nasty arguments with Pat a bunch times and certainly didn't get along with him all the time. But he was often better informed than most and contributed far more than Battlemaster ever did. So hoping he can return eventually. Battlemaster was just an idiot, and as much as this forum could use oppositional voices who don't hold the same political views as like 80%+ of the rest of the boards his points were just asinine and wrong, and irrelevant to what was being said like 90% of the time.

Seems that I am late to the party but this sucks. SJ Games has been on of my favorite companies throughout my time in the hobby and then he goes and does this. GURPS and Car Wars ate up a crazy portion of my youth.

The contributions to the Lilith fund are too much. I can ignore creators politics for the most part but funneling money I spend into this is disgusting. No now GURPS for me.

Mark