QuoteGood cyberpunk is anti-capitalist.

*Roll eyes* Good Cyberpunk is anti-corporation.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1091954*Roll eyes* Good Cyberpunk is anti-corporation.

Bingo.

Quote from: Aglondir;1091947The game gets off to a great start, even if it sounds more like Babylon 5 than cyberpunk. But my favorite part of B5 was Garibaldi's adventures on Mars, so the initial premise intrigues me. Let's read on:



Uh... when did cyberpunk become about fighting hate groups?



More about fighting hate groups? I guess this is really a big thing in this game.



This is 90-degrees off. "Tech without ethics" makes everything worse, not just social inequality. And the wealthy want to cement their power over everyone, not just marginalized communities. This focus has me worried.



There's something weird going on with that statement. When did anyone think that cybering up makes you a minority? Usually the theme is that cybering up makes you less than human.



What exactly does marginalized mean? Can my PC be non-marginalized?



Is does? I think that good cyberpunk explores what it means to be human, the disintegration of government, corporate feudalism, the relationship of memories to identity, treachery and trust, etc.  


I think it's possible to separate creator from content; some less than stellar people have created amazing works. But if I want to have "intrigues on a space station" I have a variety of other options that don't have built-in identity politics. This doesn't look like a cyberpunk game, it looks like "SJW Fantasies in the Near Future."

Sadly, the asshattery is baked into the DNA of the game, which turned me off. Your criticisms are spot-on. Well put.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1091970Sadly, the asshattery is baked into the DNA of the game, which turned me off. Your criticisms are spot-on. Well put.

I found the focus on communities a little weird. Lots of cyberpunk I've seen is about the struggles of individuals and communities are secondary (at best).

I don't want to role-play as a cyber-ANTIFA character who is fighting for free wi-fi while trying to de-platform Earth-nationalist
groups.

I thought this bit was weird:
FORTRAN B. GOODE, A wannabe preacher with a gun. Goode
describes himself as a transhumanist; if you didn’t
know what that was before you met him you’d assume
it means “angry transphobe”.

Quote from: Aglondir;1091947Uh... when did cyberpunk become about fighting hate groups?
More about fighting hate groups? I guess this is really a big thing in this game.

This is 90-degrees off. "Tech without ethics" makes everything worse, not just social inequality. And the wealthy want to cement their power over everyone, not just marginalized communities. This focus has me worried.

There's something weird going on with that statement. When did anyone think that cybering up makes you a minority? Usually the theme is that cybering up makes you less than human.

What exactly does marginalized mean? Can my PC be non-marginalized?

Is does? I think that good cyberpunk explores what it means to be human, the disintegration of government, corporate feudalism, the relationship of memories to identity, treachery and trust, etc.  


I think it's possible to separate creator from content; some less than stellar people have created amazing works. But if I want to have "intrigues on a space station" I have a variety of other options that don't have built-in identity politics. This doesn't look like a cyberpunk game, it looks like "SJW Fantasies in the Near Future."

1+2: Its cropped up on occasion. Usually either anti-cyborg hate groups, anti-android, or anti-test-tube babies, occasionally anti-biomod. I'd have to backtrack to find some good examples. Some were a part of the story, others were background. Player Piano may be a proto example. Anti robot groups boiling out into city wide riots. Its also part of the backstory of the Matrix. The machines tried friendly approaches but hate groups rioted and destroyed them and it escalated from there.

3: More importantly alot of cyberpunk stories are about the characters trying to make a big haul and get off rich, or at least pay their bills. Rather capitalistic huh?

4: I've seen it in some sci-fi. Cant think of any in cyberpunk though. The cases I recall cybernetics meant you had sold off a limb for money. Or in one setting I believe cyborgs were a working class and the treatments were mandatory to do the jobs. Been a long time so could be wrong. But overall it made the cyborgs more like 2nd class citizens or indentured servants than a 'minority'. Thats a new one and yeah it comes across as odd when you look at some of the other statements. YMMV and the author may have just misused the term when they really meant 2nd class citizen or somesuch.

5: Seems they mean the outcasts and non-conformists. Which is a staple of cyberpunk. But that brings up the question. Can the PCs not also play police? Detectives? Investigators? and other non-marginalized roles? Can they be entertainers? Workers?

6: Depends on the book. A few have explored how the tech is used and abused. Or looks at things from an AI or artificial perspective. Or economics. Crime drama. You name it, someone has likely taken a crack at writing it.
6.5: I am not sure it is all identity politics. Least the stuff you exampled can be read a few different ways. I assume theres something elsewhere in the book that puts an agenda spin on this?

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1091980I don't want to role-play as a cyber-ANTIFA character who is fighting for free wi-fi while trying to de-platform Earth-nationalist
groups.

I thought this bit was weird:
FORTRAN B. GOODE, A wannabe preacher with a gun. Goode
describes himself as a transhumanist; if you didn't
know what that was before you met him you'd assume
it means "angry transphobe".

Who the fuck thinks Transhuman = Transphobe? This is actually in the RPG?

Also note to the admin: The site was flipping out and stating something in the text was a non-english character?

The Left has tried to change the meaning of words to the point any interesting nuance of good cyberpunk is now lost in their Newspeak. This is relevant in things such as how capitalism perceived in cyberpunk or what trans-humanism stories are really about (hint: it's not a thinly-veiled agenda used to bludgeon those who disagree with you).

Quote from: Omega;1091986Who the fuck thinks Transhuman = Transphobe? This is actually in the RPG?

The game is written for SJWs to play. It's not for normies all that much. Democrats might still like it though. All of my GURPS Transhuman Space books are incorrect now in their meanings.

I think these nuts will meet some stiff resistance from the various transhuman themed RPGs out there.

Transhumanist Sci-fi is also the most modern Sci-fi that extrapolates off of the latest science.

No you can't co-op a genre. You guys still talking about Shadowrun?

Jesus Fucking Christ, how many more pages are you guys going to go on about how Ettin's game is SJW shit instead of Cyberpunk.
Of course it's SJW shit.
It's Ettin.

Separating author from work is admirable, but insane cultists are ok to dismiss I think.

Ok, ok.  My bad, didn't mean to derail everything.

Someone tell me about Interface Zero.  I picked up a bundle of, well I think it was everything, from Drivethru for dirt cheap but haven't had time to read any of it.  I noticed that there are a bunch of versions: Savage Worlds, True20, Fate, Modern20, Pathfinder.  Do any of these work better than the others or is it all a matter of system preference?

Compared to some other cyberpunk settings what's IZ got going for it or what's it lacking that I would need to either handwave or houserule?

Quote from: rgalex;1092010Ok, ok.  My bad, didn't mean to derail everything.

Someone tell me about Interface Zero.  I picked up a bundle of, well I think it was everything, from Drivethru for dirt cheap but haven't had time to read any of it.  I noticed that there are a bunch of versions: Savage Worlds, True20, Fate, Modern20, Pathfinder.  Do any of these work better than the others or is it all a matter of system preference?

Compared to some other cyberpunk settings what's IZ got going for it or what's it lacking that I would need to either handwave or houserule?

IFZ is the kitchen-sink of Cyberpunk. It's got everything including shit you might not even want.

I prefer the Savage Worlds system to run it (plus it's the most supported). "But I'm not going to tell you your business on what you should use". (Just kidding, I am.You should use Savage Worlds or convert it to Interlock. Don't be silly).

Setting - this is something that matters that rarely gets discussed. The pseudo-history of all cyberpunk settings matter. They speak directly to the fact that while Shadowrun/CP2020/GURPS Cyberpunk etc. etc. all do the same things, the context of the settings matter. In fact, I'd say outside of the mechanics of task-resolution, they're the only things that fundamentally separate them. Shadowrun without magic can BE CP2020 with  different system under the hood. So IFZ's big conceit is that instead of magic - the big "thing" is Psionics. It's a thing. But not like magic in Shadowrun, basically government experimentation MK-Ultra type stuff worked and now there are a strain of people that can develop psionics, which makes them freak in a world filled with FREAKY shit.

IFZ has normal humans, humans 2.0 (gene-modified), human/animal hybrids, synthetic humans (ala Blade Runner), Androids, and many other things. So it de-facto delves into trans-humanism or is dancing on the threshold of it. Which is fine. Their netrunning is a thing - and it's practical, not VR simulation mini-gaming. And all the usual cyberpunk tropes are there - mega corps, etc. What is REALLY good about it, is since it's using Savage Worlds the gear scales to *really* crazy levels. Powered armor, mechs, even spaceships. So you get the full range of near-future tech all under one hood with very little "tack-on" feel. It's pretty complete and scales extremely well.

NOW... that said... if you're wanting something mechanically granular where the abstraction of classes of firearms are exacting... Savage Worlds ain't gonna do it. If you want to streamlined play for some run-n-gun over-the-top alternative to Shadowrun/CP2020 - this is your jam.

Edit: Houserules - either you like Psionics or you don't. I don't think the game needs it (though it is a big part of the setting - you can ignore it. Psionically active people are rare by conceit). You might want to use Setting Edges to raise/lower the grit-factor. Depends how you like it. There is nothing in the game systemwise I'd recommend without knowing specifically what you want out of your flavor of cyberpunk. But I'm pretty confident that Savage Worlds can accomodate nearly anything you're looking for with ease.

Couple of others not mentioned.

Underground: Somewhat like Chromosome this one leans to biotech more than cybertech if I recall right. Its a pretty weird setting with a bit of a Judge Dredd feel to it.

Bubblegum Crisis: Another R Talsorian RPG that one of my players has. Pretty good adaption of the anime series.
Dominion-Tank Police: another anime adaption.

Stars without Number: This is an odd one but a player suggested it because of the Polychrome expansion. Have not seen it yet so cannot say if it is viable or not?

Hc Svnt Dracones: Ine of my players backed this and has been really into it since it came out. Cyberpunk, biopunk, and more. I've only had a glance at it so far so can not as yet comment on the system.