Starting out "Artificially Stupid"

RPGPundit · February 20, 2008, 10:58:46 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceYes - I played it in the long ago Dreamtime, and I bought WW's new edition and love it.

-clash

Given what you described above, I'm not surprised in the least.

I love it too. See, I love the fuck out of both "hero's journey" games AND "work-a-day" games.

RPGPundit

RPGPundit · February 20, 2008, 11:02:11 PM

Quote from: David RI said no such thing.

O Rly?!

Quote from: David R said, several pages backAre long term campaigns and the Hero's Journey mutually exclusive ? Because IME they are

RPGPundit

One Horse Town · February 20, 2008, 11:17:51 PM

Advancement is king in my book - some kind anyhow. It's a big part of why i play RPGs. In a game, i want to improve my character over time (preferably in a fairly linear manner) and have character growth (preferably not of the emo kind). It's like trying to beat your highest score in a video game or something - it tells you you're getting better. Take away advancement and 1/2 my interest in the game goes bye bye.

Then again, i almost exclusively play in long campaigns, so maybe that has a bearing.

David R · February 20, 2008, 11:19:48 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditO Rly?!

Yeah, clash pointed out how my earlier post and my subsequent reply was a tad garbled.

You felt a need to point this out again ? You feel a need to type, don't you?

(Apparently so do I)

Regards,
David R

John Morrow · February 21, 2008, 01:01:42 AM

Quote from: SpikeI'm not a huge fan of Brin, for whatever reason, but I've always loved that article.

I liked The Practice Effect but my problem with that article is that apparently Lucas read it and changed the following movies to address its complaints, so we get wonders like an elected teenaged Queen with teenaged double bodyguards willing to throw away their life for her. I think Lucas' solution creates even worse problems. Elected queens with term limits? C'mon, George, I'm not buying it.

droog · February 21, 2008, 02:12:44 AM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd I was pulling your chain, you big Pinko.

I know, silly. On the other hand, what myths and legends would you prefer I cite? Or to put it another way, which myths do not deal with members of the ruling class?

arminius · February 21, 2008, 03:00:30 AM

William Wallace, Rob Roy, Till Eulenspiegel perhaps, maybe Le Loi (even though he became emperor of Vietnam) and Liu Bang (even though he became emperor of China).

droog · February 21, 2008, 03:05:43 AM

William Wallace was a Scottish nobleman (and that's history, not myth). That apparently goes for Le Loi and Liu Bang as well.

Till Eulenspiegel is certainly a sort of everyman hero (or anti-hero), but he follows no sort of heroic arc. He's a kind of trickster figure, not the embodiment of cultural values.

Kiero · February 21, 2008, 05:41:57 AM

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaLuke Skywalker. Farmboy to Savior-of-the-Universe. Meet a couple of wise masters on the way, fall into temptation, return to the fold with the rewards of the tanscendant. That sort of thing.

To my tastes, I can go either way, either starting out as a meek spear-carrier and rising to take my place among the heroes of legend (Luke Skywalker), or starting out competent and staying that way, but allowing change as a person (Han Solo). What I don't enjoy is, as Balbinus suggested above, constantly chasing the carrot at the end of the stick in hopes that I'll someday get to play the character that I want to play, or -- and this is sort of the flip-side -- achieving such a state of profound advancement that I am no longer playing the character that I used to enjoy. Both of these are potential pitfalls of level-based progression.

!i!

Course the issue with Star Wars as a precedent is that Luke is the only one who really changes. Han, Lando, Chewie and Leia all start out pretty capable and don't much change.

Blackleaf · February 21, 2008, 08:00:20 AM

Most RPG games are (or should be!) the story of the group rather than the story of an individual.

blakkie · February 21, 2008, 10:14:23 AM

Quote from: David RYou felt a need to point this out again ? You feel a need to type, don't you?

(Apparently so do I)

Welcome to the Interwebs! "I have nothing meaningful to say and I must type." :haw:

blakkie · February 21, 2008, 10:18:00 AM

Quote from: StuartMost RPG games are (or should be!) the story of the group rather than the story of an individual.

Unless you are playing with few enough people.

On the flip-side is it sometimes the story of lots of individuals? Sort of a montage or ensemble? Like a soap opera does, where you have these individual stories that are running along. For sure they all intersect, to some degree. But....hrmmm, maybe this needs a thread of it's own.

flyingmice · February 21, 2008, 10:21:43 AM

Quote from: blakkieUnless you are playing with few enough people. On the flip-side is it sometimes the story of lots of individuals? Sort of a montage or ensemble? Like a soap opera does, where you have these individual stories that are running along. For sure they all intersect, to some degree. But....hrmmm, maybe this needs a thread of it's own.

I think it's both. The history of the individuals in the group, and of the group itself.

-clash

blakkie · February 21, 2008, 10:27:09 AM

Quote from: flyingmiceI think it's both. The history of the individuals in the group, and of the group itself.

-clash

The reason that this occurs to me is because of this guy that posted about how his 'group' of 6 people, which had been playing in the same 'game' for over a year, had just for the first time had all been in the same room with each other. But their characters weren't all there, they were just meeting socially. And the PCs, a lot of them knew about each other, but some of the PCs had never meet.

It was kinda interesting. Like a mini Living campaign.

Pseudoephedrine · February 21, 2008, 11:50:15 AM

Quote from: droogI know, silly. On the other hand, what myths and legends would you prefer I cite? Or to put it another way, which myths do not deal with members of the ruling class?

William Tell. Pandora's Box. Burnt Njal's Saga. That kid the Soviets made a Hero of the Soviet Union for ratting out his kulak parents and getting murdered who doesn't seem to've actually existed.

More generally, it's important to distinguish myths which deal with members of the ruling class in order to reinforce the ideological structures and conventions of their time, and those which deal with them only incidentally, as a literary convention or trope. The house of Agamemnon is a good example of the latter.