Alright you bastards sold me, I'll be ordering this.

Quote from: CRKrueger;431271Alright you bastards sold me, I'll be ordering this.

Do you have to order it? I got a free PDF copy at RPGnow.

Seanchai

Quote from: Sigmund;431197As an aside, Pundit, I was wondering if you had checked out the S&W Complete Rules book. I bought it on Benoist's recommendation and am immensely pleased with it.

I haven't, and its unlikely I'll be getting it unless I should happen to receive a review copy or something; care to explain more about what the "additions" comprise?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;431360I haven't, and its unlikely I'll be getting it unless I should happen to receive a review copy or something; care to explain more about what the "additions" comprise?

RPGPundit

It apparently includes all the optional stuff from all the booklets, but that's not something I can verify and in the end the source doesn't matter, because I love it anyway. It contains all the D&D classes, including druid, paladin, assassin, monk, etc. It includes followers and getting and running strongholds, and magical research. It uses the same mechanics as regular S&W, but also includes the older version. It has 4 different combat sequences from various versions, including the normal S&W one as well as even the Holmes edition one. I t has rules for mass, aerial, siege, and maritime combat in addition to normal PC vs Monster. Loads of random tables, charts for stuff. All this is pulled together and includes historical tidbits about the original game, and includes really nice art and layout IMO. There's even half a page at the end about publishing your own S&W stuff. It's a really  nice, well put together book IMO. Perhaps Frog God would like a review done. I want to get SwN print to put right beside it on the shelf and at the game table for a game that would be decent for running just about anything with minimal adaption.

Quote from: Sigmund;431197As an aside, Pundit, I was wondering if you had checked out the S&W Complete Rules book. I bought it on Benoist's recommendation and am immensely pleased with it. I'm going so far as to consider it my go-to old edition clone now even over LL. It's a very polished and attractive printing of S&W that IMO completes the game, giving all kinds of options and add-ons without adding complexity, and in reading it is feeling to me very much like Stars without Number, which is why I bring it up here. Not looking for any responses really as I don't want to derail the thread or distract from this awesome game, just wanted to mention it because of my opinion with regards to the similar high quality and great design of both products.

I concur with these feelings about S&W Complete Rules. I have the softcover, and will be getting the hardcover as well.

Well, it sounds interesting in an AD&D 1e DMG kind of way.. but I think the crucial difference here is that Stars Without Number is an entirely new game; whereas S&W, whatever you want to do about it, however interesting some of the new optional ideas might be, is still just D&D.
S&W copied an old school game.
Stars Without Number CREATED a NEW old school game.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;431577Well, it sounds interesting in an AD&D 1e DMG kind of way.. but I think the crucial difference here is that Stars Without Number is an entirely new game; whereas S&W, whatever you want to do about it, however interesting some of the new optional ideas might be, is still just D&D.
S&W copied an old school game.
Stars Without Number CREATED a NEW old school game.

RPGPundit

You are correct. I was simply commenting on how both games feel much more polished and "professional" than I expected. I also think they'd be fairly compatible if one wanted to combine genre's or share resources between the two. I certainly don't want to derail the point or take away from SwN though. I was impressed enough to go ahead and buy the adventure/mini-setting offered for it, and can very much see myself running it if my brand new players express an interest in the genre. I'd love to play it as well... it's similarity to other games gives if a "comfortable" quality, yet at the same time it feels new and so I have the enthusiam for a new product when reading it. That I was able to DL it for free kinda amazes me and I'll just put out there that SwN is very very very much worth the DL, and I certainly don't see it as being just one of those games that gets DLed and then just forgotten, it's really too good for that.

Yes. The "Free" part is also very impressive; I wouldn't be surprised if it pays off for them.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;431721Yes. The "Free" part is also very impressive; I wouldn't be surprised if it pays off for them.

RPGPundit

In one sense, it already has. As of today, between DTRPG and the other places I've put it up, SWN has been downloaded a touch under 3,700 times, and that's not including however many downloads the torrents and scribd of it I've seen floating around have provided. I never expected to make anything more than beer money off the RPG design hobby, so I've never had pressure to extract the optimum amount of cash from my work. It's fun to try, certainly, but it's a game, and no more.

The general idea is to build a reputation with something that people can easily pass around and share with each other. Nobody needs to hesitate about recommending SWN to other gamers because there's no cash investment required to get it. If they like it, odds are they're going to like at least some of the other material I put out, so I'll pick up some of them as customers on future products. It's a losing play if I don't actually put out those future products, but if I keep the line alive like I plan to, it'll pay off substantially down the road. So far I've made back about a quarter of my initial investment in software, ISBNs, stock art and proofs in the first month of operation, and while I expect a downturn in sales until I can get my next product out, it seems to be working about as well as I could reasonably have hoped.

Quote from: SineNomine;431801In one sense, it already has. As of today, between DTRPG and the other places I've put it up, SWN has been downloaded a touch under 3,700 times, and that's not including however many downloads the torrents and scribd of it I've seen floating around have provided. I never expected to make anything more than beer money off the RPG design hobby, so I've never had pressure to extract the optimum amount of cash from my work. It's fun to try, certainly, but it's a game, and no more.

The general idea is to build a reputation with something that people can easily pass around and share with each other. Nobody needs to hesitate about recommending SWN to other gamers because there's no cash investment required to get it. If they like it, odds are they're going to like at least some of the other material I put out, so I'll pick up some of them as customers on future products. It's a losing play if I don't actually put out those future products, but if I keep the line alive like I plan to, it'll pay off substantially down the road. So far I've made back about a quarter of my initial investment in software, ISBNs, stock art and proofs in the first month of operation, and while I expect a downturn in sales until I can get my next product out, it seems to be working about as well as I could reasonably have hoped.

I'm really glad to learn this, and I can say Hard Light is dang cool as well, I really like the absolute plethora of hooks and quirks to the characters on the station. I look forward to seeing what else you put out for it, and once again fantastic job with it.

I just downloaded the game and had a quick look at it and...

Wow. W.O.W.

Is there any buzz out there about this game yet? Because there definitely should be some.

I've really just skimmed the contents, but it looks really tight, and really, really cool.

I think we have the first official "RPGsite darling".  Of course, this being not the purple, the game we're raving over is actually good.  I like the .pdf, I'm gonna grab the hardbound.

Quote from: Benoist;431878Is there any buzz out there about this game yet? Because there definitely should be some.

I've seen buzz here, on a few blogs (notably Steve Darlington's and James Maliszewski's) and maybe a thread or tow at the Big Purple.

Quote from: CRKrueger;431879I think we have the first official "RPGsite darling".

Yeah, that's what it looks like. :eek:

I have too much on my plate right now, but I will get around to downloading the bastard. Eventually. I swear.

Im actually kind of glad the purple nurple hasnt found out about this game tbh as chances are they would either love it to death(thus ruining it by making it a darling) or claim its rubbish and should be struck from peoples memories as a crime against all that is good in rpg's or to put it in a simpler context coz we like it they'll automatically hate it like the little children in the playground most of that forum(mainly the mods)are.

Quote from: SineNomine;431801In one sense, it already has. As of today, between DTRPG and the other places I've put it up, SWN has been downloaded a touch under 3,700 times, and that's not including however many downloads the torrents and scribd of it I've seen floating around have provided. I never expected to make anything more than beer money off the RPG design hobby, so I've never had pressure to extract the optimum amount of cash from my work. It's fun to try, certainly, but it's a game, and no more.

The general idea is to build a reputation with something that people can easily pass around and share with each other. Nobody needs to hesitate about recommending SWN to other gamers because there's no cash investment required to get it. If they like it, odds are they're going to like at least some of the other material I put out, so I'll pick up some of them as customers on future products. It's a losing play if I don't actually put out those future products, but if I keep the line alive like I plan to, it'll pay off substantially down the road. So far I've made back about a quarter of my initial investment in software, ISBNs, stock art and proofs in the first month of operation, and while I expect a downturn in sales until I can get my next product out, it seems to be working about as well as I could reasonably have hoped.

Well, I know for my part I'll certainly be looking to see what future games you produce.

RPGPundit