Starfire, the rpg

Cylonophile · May 04, 2010, 10:25:29 PM

I keep a hand in the wargame world and have heard about a huge, deeply detailed wargame called "starfire" that was owned for a time by dave weber. (Yes, honor harrington)

it's supposed to be a gigantic wargame with a rich, deeply detailed universe and all sorts of ways to create races, polities and more, plus how to create star systems and jump points.

The thing is, it's only a wargame now. I was wondering if anyone had ever thought of taking the wargame setting, breaking out their favorite RPG system and creating a roleplaying game based on it?

If so I'd like to hear about it...

flyingmice · May 04, 2010, 10:38:03 PM

I know a bit about this, but I'm not sure what I can say. Starfire is in good hands. I have a box set sitting next to me right now. No, not my hands, I said *good* hands....

-clash

Cylonophile · May 04, 2010, 10:40:32 PM

Quote from: flyingmice;378632I know a bit about this, but I'm not sure what I can say. Starfire is in good hands. I have a box set sitting next to me right now. No, not my hands, I said *good* hands....

-clash

Well, you could say whether or not you believe it's setting, background, racial description, societal depictions, history, etc. are detailed enough to let a good gamer sit down with it and whatever generic system he chooses and create a viable rpg setting in it.

That would be a useful reply. Also would it be worth it to a RPGer to get a copy of this to base a SFRPG on?

flyingmice · May 04, 2010, 10:57:21 PM

Quote from: Cylonophile;378633Well, you could say whether or not you believe it's setting, background, racial description, societal depictions, history, etc. are detailed enough to let a good gamer sit down with it and whatever generic system he chooses and create a viable rpg setting in it.

That would be a useful reply. Also would it be worth it to a RPGer to get a copy of this to base a SFRPG on?

I own the task Force Games version, from the late 70s. I could write an RPG from the information provided, but the setting as presented is very military oriented. It's a wargame. There is very little non-military information on society, species, or history. I don't know what has been done with the setting since this edition. It's one of the last wargames I bought before I got into RPGs - or even maybe after I started with RPGs - I can't remember, but I haven't kept up with it. As a wargame, it's excellent.

-clash

Koltar · May 04, 2010, 11:06:42 PM

Wikipedia often has useful information.

In this case, a pretty lengthy article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfire_(strategy_game)

Also, linked from there, at BoardgameGeek :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2891/starfire

- Ed C.

flyingmice · May 04, 2010, 11:24:30 PM

I own the original Starfire, published in 1979. There was an earlier version published in 1975 which is not referenced in the Wikipedia article. My box set was in excellent condition, but was damaged on the base during the recent flood. From the wikipedia article, it looks like the universe was greatly expanded since my version.

-clash

Cylonophile · May 05, 2010, 12:10:38 AM

Quote from: flyingmice;378639I own the original Starfire, published in 1979. There was an earlier version published in 1975 which is not referenced in the Wikipedia article. My box set was in excellent condition, but was damaged on the base during the recent flood. From the wikipedia article, it looks like the universe was greatly expanded since my version.

-clash

Yes, I'd seen the wiki some time ago and noted it had 50(!!!) tech levels, rules for creating all sorts of races including gar giant inhabitants and so on. It was like 400 or so pages, and I own the old ziploc baggie versions (somewhere) so I knew it had grown.

Dave weber ran it for a while, so I imagine he really expanded the sotryline. I wonder if there's enough background to make an RPG.

I mean, the khanate (orions) are basically kzinti, no problem making them in most rpgs.

Note: The above link to the wiki is flawed, here is the correct one, and the wiki article has a link to the BGG article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfire_%28strategy_game%29

brettmb · May 05, 2010, 12:58:10 AM

You're talking about the third edition, which became unbearably complex with a rich setting. Most of the supplements (but not all) are for this edition.

First edition doesn't have much setting material, while second edition has one or two sourcebooks that add setting material that was incorporated into third edition. These editions are similar in scope to my own Warcosm.

Fourth edition and up is all rules and no setting, and even more complex than third edition.

So if you wanted to make an rpg setting to play, you'd need the third edition and companion supplements.

arminius · May 05, 2010, 01:42:36 AM

The Wikipedia article says there were several official published novels; those should give a fair amount of what you'd need for an RPG.

The original game was pretty neat--though I seem to recall that ships could be equipped with guns whose muzzle velocity must have been FTL judging by their instant effect on targets separated by large volumes of space. There wasn't anything there that'd make me want to use it as an RPG background, though.

David Johansen · May 05, 2010, 08:57:42 AM

Really the David Weber novels are some of his best work.

I played the baggie version the most. Really they need a new baggie version as a freebie. Ten tech levels is much more managable.

Incidentally Clash, are you saying you've got your hands on a NEW BOXED set? The last time I was at their website it hadn't been updated for a long time.

And, yes, Starfire is one of the things for which I've always wanted an RPG (and land battle game). Much of the technology and world creation parts of Galactic Adventures were inspired by Star Fire but the mechanics are not in any way similar.

flyingmice · May 05, 2010, 09:08:03 AM

Quote from: David Johansen;378694Really the David Weber novels are some of his best work.

I played the baggie version the most. Really they need a new baggie version as a freebie. Ten tech levels is much more managable.

Incidentally Clash, are you saying you've got your hands on a NEW BOXED set? The last time I was at their website it hadn't been updated for a long time.

And, yes, Starfire is one of the things for which I've always wanted an RPG (and land battle game). Much of the technology and world creation parts of Galactic Adventures were inspired by Star Fire but the mechanics are not in any way similar.

No - I bought mine in 1979, when it was released. I was a wargamer long before I was a roleplayer, but by 1980 I was no longer wargaming.

-clash

Greentongue · May 05, 2010, 10:06:10 AM

I've had Starfire almost since its initial release and always thought you could use it with Traveller.
The book series gives a good amount of background if you don't want to generate your own from scratch.
I've done some work on merging it with Savage Worlds. Hardest thing is finding others that have read the stories and played the wargame.
=

David Johansen · May 05, 2010, 02:04:07 PM

Silent Death is a better (or even perfect) match for Savage Worlds.

Starfire is a great game that deserves a proper modern treatment. I don't mean that the rules should be updated much. Other than going to d10s instead of 2d6 I don't see much need.

But I'd love to see a big box version of the ship to ship game and empires with lots of little plastic ships and bases.

I'd like to see a merged Ogre / Triplanetary presentation on the same lines too.

Cylonophile · May 05, 2010, 07:22:44 PM

Quote from: David Johansen;378747Silent Death is a better (or even perfect) match for Savage Worlds.

Starfire is a great game that deserves a proper modern treatment. I don't mean that the rules should be updated much. Other than going to d10s instead of 2d6 I don't see much need.

But I'd love to see a big box version of the ship to ship game and empires with lots of little plastic ships and bases.

I'd like to see a merged Ogre / Triplanetary presentation on the same lines too.

Forget Ogre. Jackson just ripped of the "Bolo" series by Keith Lamaur. Get the Bolo books and do a rpg based on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolo_%28tank%29

BTW, from a persona bias POV, I'd say "The last command" was one of the best bolo stories.

BOT, I think I'd like a system where you had a rpg set in the starfire universe, along with a system that used the normal starfire rules for spaceship combat, with elements to allow for RPG characters to be on the ships and effect their performance it combat, 9n addition to rules for the surviving, dying or being injured as the ship they're on is damaged.

David Johansen · May 05, 2010, 09:15:45 PM

Errr...I'm not super familiar with Bolos but from what I know they eat silly little Ogre MK VIs for breakfast. Ogre is really super tanks in Orwell's 1984, my understanding is that Bolo is much more space opera.