So... I LOVE StarCraft. Love it. And I'm thinking of running it as tabletop again. Thing is, I've run the Alternity thing, found it sucky, and I've run a thing I found in the web, based on Star Wars d6, which I liked, but was only playable at medium levels, just like Star Wars. Best StarCraft one-shot for me yet, but I don't really see it as campaign-worthy, for me at least. So, I would appreciate any ideas about systems. Of course, I could re-learn Alternity rules and come up with the stats and stuff, but that little book is like a peeve of mine now (I suppose it's my own fault for buying it without really knowing what it was. Oh well). I've thought of running it with Shadowrun 4ed, but... dunno, not really the cinematic Alien/s-Ridley-James-Scott-Cameron-anything-Alien-but-Resurrection kind of thing I'm going for... besides, can you imagine the kind of damage a Zergling should be able to do to bypass armor? And too-tough Zerglings or tin armors would completely ruin the game...
I'm going for a reasonably lethal thing, probably point-based, because levels would probably suck too. I mean, the day a Firebat says "Go back to sleep, Bob, it's just two Hydralisks, I'll handle'em" it's not StarCraft anymore.
Sorry, long rambling, but I'm in a pinch here, and lifelines are appreciated and shall be repaid with timely thankyouses.
fede.-
Full Alternity is an all around better product than that silly Starcraft boxed set. It is also pretty lethal depending on how creatures and weapons are designed (the damage tracks worked quite well.) As someone who wanted a Starcraft tabletop game I was deeply dissapointed in the boxed set, which is more an overly produced quickstart. Gamma World for Alternity is also something I'd suggest you avoid. But the two corebooks, Beyond SFX, and the Psionics Book were all very useful for setting building.
Alternately what systems do you like? I'm sure Traveller (Mongoose) could do it, but like anything else would take some significant work to stat the creatures, armors, and material. I'm not sure of games like Thousand Suns (or is that Stars) or indie games like 3:16 and how they would handle such material.
Savage Worlds might also be something to look at it. (It's meant for big battles in part, and is designed for fast play in that style but is '"pulpy", high action oriented so named heroes will tend to be more important and live longer than unnamed ones.) Lethality various with weapon stats..
I think you should first decide what kind of game you want to run, and then choose your system accordingly.
Are the PCs going to be soldiers in the army? Soldiers don't get to adventure; they go exactly where and when, and do exactly what, how, where and when they're told by their superiours, so you're looking for a miniatures wargame system, not an RPG.
Is it about Han Starcraft Solo and his Protoss copilot gallivanting around the sector as freebooters and having chandelier-swinging adventures? Something like Star Wars D6.
Is it about Han Realistic Solo and his Protoss copilot ferrying goods and passengers around the sector taking dirty jobs and working their ass off to repay mortgage on their ship? Traveller.
Is it about dungeoneering in space wrecks, ancient ruins and Zerg warrens with not much thought given to anything else (like trading, politics, etc.)? Dungeons and Dragons, and pick an old edition so you don't have to come up with one million setting-appropriate feats.
Is it about freelancer PCs taking infiltration and espionage jobs that require lots of planning and not trusting your employer? Probably Shadowrun or Cyberpunk 2020.
Decide what style of gameplay you're going to have, consulting the players if necessary. That will narrow down your options and make the choice much easier.
Starcraft, to me, sounds like a perfect fit for Savage Worlds.
There's plenty of futuristic character options, and decent rules for massive tabletop battles (while still making the individual PC's feel special). That's my recommendation.
If you were going to go vehicle heavy, I really like the vehicle rules from Genre Diversion 3. You can stat up tons of unique vehicles very easily and have them. It also has a decent tactical combat rules.
Traveller may be good, however I don't really think the combat system is very good for mass combats. But for space marines flying around in space fighting aliens, it'd be decent enough. I'd recommend the Mercenary book if you're going to go this route.
I have run StarCraft using Gamma World and Savage Worlds.
SW is absolutely great for StarCraft if you want to recreate the battle scenes and divert the RPG into skirmish wargame mode. This is especially fund if you have lots of minis. I saw a guy run SW SC at a convention and he had each unit represented by a card with Blizzard artwork on it so it was very visual.
I used Gamma World when I wanted a much faster play with less worry about how was standing where. These days I would probably use Mutant Future instead (its free online). You can easily build all the creatures, units and tech by mixing and matching and renaming GW stuff.
If you want SC to be fast and lethal, I suggest Traveller. I love to run Aliens with Traveller and a lethal SC would be on that same page. But, people will be flipping through characters like gumdrops. When I run Aliens, I give 2 PCs per player for a 4 hour game and I usually get a 80% kill rate with Traveller.
Ok. Thank you, guys. I'll look into Savage Worlds then, first (did you know? Three out of four gamers recommend it!), and then the other stuff.
I'm totally aiming for that Alien feel, so Traveller... mmm. 80%'s a little high, though. I've got a campaign in mind. Easily fixable, I suppose.
I don't like the wargame feel. I'm thinking something on the lines of a little group, crash landed on some as-yet uninhabited fringe planet, about the time of the first Zerg swarm, left to fend for themselves. Players would start pretty much alone, but may encounter more survivors more into the thing. While non-military characters could theoretically be available, I'm not very keen on it (I won't rule it out just because someone might come up with a really good idea) Whether or not any semblance of military order is maintained would be up to the players. In time, they could be contacted by the Sons of Korhal, or the Confederacy, depending on the players' approach.
Just Terran for starters, of course. So, maybe you could say I will be about dungeoneering in space wrecks etc.
SR4: Bug spirit rules, advanced cybernetics, zerg mooks, etc.
Savage Worlds is just Deadland's retarded brother.
RPGPundit
Thanks, Pundy. Useful as ever. And I'm not sure about SR4, like I said before. It's great doing what it does, but it would be a major pain in the ass to adapt, I think. There are too many stats to come up with... if I were planning a really long term thing, I'd do it, but you know that's just not my cup of tea.
I'd use Dark Heresy if you want to run a SC game where the characters are specialists doing Co-Ops style missions. It's gritty, it's violent and it's got pretty good gun mechanics for a change.
Quote from: RPGPundit;285757Savage Worlds is just Deadland's retarded brother.
RPGPundit
Fortunately, no.
SW is Hero System lite, IMO. Simple, fast rules that do what you need them to do, easily used for any genre, minimal prep time on the part of the GM thanks to the fluid rules, easy to learn, fun to master.
Also: $10 rulebook is all you need.
-=Grim=-
I'm not familiar with Dark Heresy. I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip.
Its the sci-fi version of WFRP, but suckier. If I recall, you weren't a big fan of WFRP, Sun Boy, so I really can't imagine you being a big fan of DH.
RPGPundit
I would recommend you look at Hard Nova (http://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=32).
Unfortunately, my copy of this game has disappeared; I don't know where it ended up! I'm guessing I lent it to someone, and don't recall who.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;286553Its the sci-fi version of WFRP, but suckier.
You may have heard of it; apparently the kids call it 'warhammer 40,000'.
Yeah. Just read it. Well, flipped through it. Not great. The bestiary sounds interesting, though, at least because the artwork in the book is nice. But IIRC, Hard Nova seemed pretty cool. Fuck, man. I've got to get Visa or something.
Sorry to bring this old topic from the dead...
In my need to play SC PnP roleplaying I decided to create my own system based on Star Wars Saga Edition. It can be played as it is, it is only missing opponents with stats (but all the options to create them are either here or in SWSE books). I done a certain number of them and have others still needing refinement (these are for now not included in this document).
If anyone is interested you can download it from here: https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B9m2Yt6oBfEVMWUyOTlkNzYtYjU4Ny00MTJiLTkwN2MtN2FiNDg0Nzc3Y2M3&hl=en (https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B9m2Yt6oBfEVMWUyOTlkNzYtYjU4Ny00MTJiLTkwN2MtN2FiNDg0Nzc3Y2M3&hl=en)
I got no clue why it will not open on the link but download still works.
If you got feedback&suggestions for me or decide to try this or even (gasp) stat out some Starcraft units or vehicles please contact me at: nikicaj@gmail.com (I doubt I will be visiting this board often).
Wonder if d6 Space can do the job?
I've played two campaigns of Star Craft with Alternity rules and loved it every time. So I haven't had a need to play with any other systems.
I think you could do Starcraft with the D20 version of Star Wars or even the SAGA version. I also think the Wars RPG might work. But Savage Worlds is a solid system that do a lot of different things.
What I recall of Starcraft it's mostly Space Marines and Tyranids so I'd probably be inclined to use Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader... if only because I've got them, know the rules and the settings aren't all that different... the Protoss seem kind of like a cross between Elder and Tau.
Quote from: Simlasa;401081What I recall of Starcraft it's mostly Space Marines and Tyranids so I'd probably be inclined to use Dark Heresy/Rogue Trader... if only because I've got them, know the rules and the settings aren't all that different... the Protoss seem kind of like a cross between Elder and Tau.
Blizzard wanted to make computer games using Games Workshop's IP's and they said no.
Warhammer Fantasy rewritten became Warcraft.
Warhammer 40k rewritten became Starcraft.
Every dime Blizzard has made off those two franchises, GW could have had a piece of. Of course Blizzard actually knows how to handle an IP and how not to cling to being a "toy soldier company" like you're some kind of idiot savant with no powers.
Quote from: RPGPundit;285757Savage Worlds is just Deadland's retarded brother.
RPGPundit
Do explain.
Quote from: Tetsubo;401013I think you could do Starcraft with the D20 version of Star Wars or even the SAGA version. I also think the Wars RPG might work. But Savage Worlds is a solid system that do a lot of different things.
Lol, you write this while ignoring my previous post where I done exactly that (used Saga to make a d20 Starcraft setting)
M-M-M-MULTI-NECRO!!! *echoes* 'ecro 'ecro 'cro... +250 pts.
In the wake of Heart of the Swarm, Starcraft actually seems more tabletop ready than ever. It's even conceivable to have mixed-race party of renegades without straining the game fiction too much.
So for those who already weighed in years ago, do you still agree with your system choices or is there a better fit now? I'd also like to see what newer folks think of course.
I think SWN might handle this. You may need to customize a tad for races, but it wouldn't be hard. :-)
Quote from: CRKrueger;401093Blizzard wanted to make computer games using Games Workshop's IP's and they said no.
Warhammer Fantasy rewritten became Warcraft.
Warhammer 40k rewritten became Starcraft.
Every dime Blizzard has made off those two franchises, GW could have had a piece of. Of course Blizzard actually knows how to handle an IP and how not to cling to being a "toy soldier company" like you're some kind of idiot savant with no powers.
Andy Chambers who worked on 40K quit GW and went to work over at Blizzard as SC2's creative director.
Mong Trav would do it without breaking a sweat, the CSC already has crystal energy weapons for the Protoss.
If you can stand Fate (I can't), Starblazer Adventures can do it.
Savage Worlds would take a tad more legwork. I haven't seen the new SF Companion yet, though.
SunBoy hasn't been seen around here for years. Why are you answering his question with recommendations? He isn't going to see them.
Yes, most generalist SF games can handle it, but all would require some retooling. This is the only real answer. Anything else is just individual tastes.
-clash
Quote from: flyingmice;731030SunBoy hasn't been seen around here for years. Why are you answering his question with recommendations? He isn't going to see them.
Yes, most generalist SF games can handle it, but all would require some retooling. This is the only real answer. Anything else is just individual tastes.
-clash
I'm sorry, I should have been more obvious.
I'm asking the question now. It's good form to use older existing threads when possible to avoid repetition, right?
Anyway, yes I realize it's all individual tastes, but I like to see people's pitches and ideas because my own tastes are open to nudging and improvement.
Savage Worlds's math is too peculiar for my tolerance though.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;731037I'm sorry, I should have been more obvious. I'm asking the question now. It's good form to use older existing threads when possible to avoid repetition, right?
Anyway, yes I realize it's all individual tastes, but I like to see people's pitches and ideas because my own tastes are open to nudging and improvement.
Savage Worlds's math is too peculiar for my tolerance though.
Ok, Shipyard - I didn't get that. Not knowing your tastes, I won't make a recommendation.
-clash
Quote from: RPGPundit;285757Savage Worlds is just Deadland's retarded brother.
RPGPundit
Savage Worlds is the best game I've played out of the box, period. Overall, it is complete, comprehensive, balanced, and polished.
(http://i.imgur.com/LHIBS2w.gif)
This flame is what, four years old? Don't bother; Pundit doesn't know what he's missing.
Always nice to see some SW love, though. I might start a SW PbP here one of these days.
Quote from: flyingmice;731054Ok, Shipyard - I didn't get that. Not knowing your tastes, I won't make a recommendation.
-clash
Hmm, I should lay those out:
- Should feel like the video game to a reasonable extent, but "zoomed in"
- Streamlined (100 pages or less, leaning on abstraction where feasible)
- Noob friendly
- Quick-ish character gen
- Optional: potentially able to handle zerg and protoss PCs, within limits.
Again, I go with Savage Worlds because my StarCraft RPG events have been about a mix of heroes, troops and vehicles in battles. Lots of toys on the table. I want that feel of a Hero being as badass as a Tank. SW does that well.
I could see FATE working well for FATE fans.
SWN or Mutant Future would do the job as well. I have tooled out Gamma World for when I've run a StarCraft event that I wanted in the mind's eye instead of table toys and for me that worked great. AKA, the alien abilities and psi powers and powered armor powers were easily mimicked by renaming mutations.
Quote from: Spinachcat;731117Again, I go with Savage Worlds because my StarCraft RPG events have been about a mix of heroes, troops and vehicles in battles. Lots of toys on the table. I want that feel of a Hero being as badass as a Tank. SW does that well.
I appreciate that, but
Savage Worlds still has wonky math issues I simply cannot accept. They would gnaw at me like a permanent stain on a beautiful sweater.
I thought that those "math issues" only came up in one very particular circumstance (d4 & d6 vs TN6), no? I don't play the game, but there was a thread around here that covered this recently.
I'm not going to read this entire thing so please forgive me if this has been posted.
There's an extensive D6 conversion, free online here.
http://starcraftd6.tripod.com/index.html
The guy does other great conversions for D6 as well.
Quote from: Archangel Fascist;731062Savage Worlds is the best game I've played out of the box, period. Overall, it is complete, comprehensive, balanced, and polished.
Have you ever seen any other RPG than deadEarth before SW?
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;731067Hmm, I should lay those out:
- Should feel like the video game to a reasonable extent, but "zoomed in"
- Streamlined (100 pages or less, leaning on abstraction where feasible)
- Noob friendly
- Quick-ish character gen
- Optional: potentially able to handle zerg and protoss PCs, within limits.
Warhammer 40k RPGs, there was some official Star Craft RPG (I...think? Or maybe it was just a Polish fan project?), perhaps some generic sci - fi system. 40k Tyranids'd be an obvious fit for zergs, unsure about Eldar being Protoss.
So, how do BRP and 40k compare? I'm only familiar with the latter.
Quote from: flyingmice;731030SunBoy hasn't been seen around here for years. Why are you answering his question with recommendations? He isn't going to see them.
He's a player in my gaming group; I'm pretty sure he still occasionally lurks here even if he hasn't posted in a long time.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;731666He's a player in my gaming group; I'm pretty sure he still occasionally lurks here even if he hasn't posted in a long time.
RPGPundit
Yeah - I know who Sunboy is, and that he's part of your group, Pundit. I was just remarking on how long it's been since he posted. His option is looking pretty good to me lately. Say hi to him from me! I miss him! :D
-clash
Well if I were gonna do a StarCraft RPG I'd use Savage Worlds if only because its the RPG game that handles large numbers of characters the best that I have seen.
I would definitely grab the SciFi Companion before attempting that though to check out newer starship/vehicle rules.
As for the complaints about the math in Savage Worlds, I can agree. I had a D10+D6 spellcast against a DN 10 (4+2 darkness +4 heavy cover forest) last night. Cost 2 bennies to pull it off. One was a blue chip (Deadliands = +D6 extra effort die). Then I rerolled the whole thing with a white chip to finally pull it off. All those bennies just to deal 3d6 bolt damage for 10 for a shaken result (Using the Shaintar rule of rerolling the whole thing + extra effort die co-opted to Deadlands, is how that was possible).
At the end of the day, the system starts breaking down when the bennies stop flowing because the rerolling is what makes the math work. With enough rerolls, the ace possibility goes up enough to make success possible, even when penalties accrue at a high rate. And they are also your extra HP, as you need them to soak too.
A bennie stingy GM can make Savage Worlds a miserable experience.
But the thing about SW that makes it our game of choice is that its incredibly fast. Like three battles in a four hour session fast (like my first two Shaintar sessions). And can handle massive combats relatively well (but the final battle of 50 Fathoms with our 160+ crew, 160+ octopons was a bit much. System seems to work best in skirmish level of extras in the 25-50 range for decent battle speed).
The only other game I might think about would be old Shatterzone, which already has a lot of elements that could be used to create a rich StarCraft universe with some modifications. The Reavers/Armagon destroying the universe could easily be changed to the hybrids/Amon. Humanity is afraid of the zerg/protoss and extremely xenophobic, causing other alien races to be thrown to the fringe worlds as fringers with bolters fleeing both the zerg and hybrids from outer worlds. The psionic rules are decent too for using for ghosts/templars. The weird 2d10 TORG system analog though is still odd though. It just doesn't handle large skirmishes very well.
A copy of the board game might be useful too, my friend JP got it at a yard sale for 0.35 cents, so mad jealous there. Useful authentic plastic pieces you could use for units.
StarCraft does have the same problem that the Star Wars RPG genre has though, a lot of named characters doing things in the saga and where does the character's roles come in? Background fights and adventures filling in the details between some of the scenarios?
Quote from: slayride35;731736StarCraft does have the same problem that the Star Wars RPG genre has though, a lot of named characters doing things in the saga and where does the character's roles come in? Background fights and adventures filling in the details between some of the scenarios?
Perhaps.
Starcraft has the advantage of being much less popular and fleshed out. Also, I think if you're running sandbox style on fringe planets where important shit could be going down in the shadows (dangerous new inventions for instance) this problem is mitigated.
Aside from that, I realize now that a
Starcraft RPG needs to be able to handle vehicles and remote control easily and quickly. Getting to use siege tanks and thors is part of that universe's appeal.
Yeah I grabbed the SciFi Companion for SW, I'll post my thoughts about the vehicle rules after I read it over. Its second on the queue though, currently reading Shaintar: Legends Unleashed for game on Sunday.
Yeah Starcraft does have a lot of mercenary companies (Wings of Liberty for example has a bunch of them to use), and also a lot of criminal and merchant syndicates who could end up being the sources for their missions rather than a major Terran groups (Depending on timeline of game) like the Confederacy, Dominion, United Earth Directorate, etc.
The StarCraft universe has lots of cool stuff to do...as long as its mostly Team A shooting Team B, but there is room for intrigue and betrayals.
One thing to consider is the building of bases by players. Are they going to be "building" barracks, supply depots and starports? How fast does that occur in a RPG?
Is a Battlecruiser something that you can shoot down with enough Hydralisks?
Do Mutalisks really dogfight with Valkyries?
What is the relation of the vitality of a PC Hero vs. the vitality of a mook? AKA, can the PC take more damage than a siege tank?
One of the cool things about Sw is heroes are wild cards, with more wound levels which makes them have more HP versus a mook with only 1 wound level.
But in general, most SW vehicles have much higher base toughness than people and can only be hurt by Heavy Weapons. A Siege Tank simply ignores most small arms fire, so a marine is going to have to employ tactics like getting behind the siege tank and use rocket launchers, etc.
That isn't particularly consistent with the StarCraft universe where 12 zerglings surrounding a Siege Tank is its doom, though. So the Heavy Weapon Rules for vehicles might be tossed out if you want less realistic but more consistent with the video game rules.
Quote from: flyingmice;731674Yeah - I know who Sunboy is, and that he's part of your group, Pundit. I was just remarking on how long it's been since he posted. His option is looking pretty good to me lately. Say hi to him from me! I miss him! :D
-clash
He has a real job now, so that's taken away his time for posting I think.