In the first part of my strategy to brainwash my nephews and nieces into thinking rpg's are the greatest thing to do with their free time, thereby guaranteeing myself a gaming group forever, at this time 2 of the nephews are wayyyyyyy into Star Wars.
I know there have been Star Wars rpg's put out, and I read that there was some disagreement as to which is the best version. Don't worry about the age of the kids, I'll scale it to fit them---but tell me, in your opinion, whats the best SW RPG, and why?
thx
I still hold the original version of WEG Star Wars D6 as a paragon of what good games should aspire to. It's got a few bugs, but over all it's simple, inuitive, complete, elegant, fast playing and fun.
Later edition of D6 Star Wars might have fixed some bugs, but at they lost some of that essential simplicity.
I had the first D20 version of Star Wars and I found it was dry, overly complicated and souless. I ran it a few times, it was sad and cumbersome. I've heard good things about the D20 Saga edition but I've never checked it out. I just don't consider D20 systems as cinematic, they tend to be more tactical, but I could be wrong.
There is however one major trend I noticed. People who think of Star Wars in terms of Hans Solo and Chewie often favour the D6 version. People who think of Star Wars in terms of light sabres and Force powers tend to prefer the D20 versions. Again, it's just a hunch.
I love D6 Star Wars, and think it is awesome in so many ways.
Star Wars Saga, is about the best "d20" rules set I've seen though in terms of play balance (according to Luca's vision of SW) and its pretty crisp.
I'm almost more interested in trying to run it in something else completely like Starblazers or ADVENTURE! Simply because it be different than my other experiences. If you want something already primed for SW though I'd recommend on of the top two.
Quote from: Soylent Green;396958I still hold the original version of WEG Star Wars D6 as a paragon of what good games should aspire to. It's got a few bugs, but over all it's simple, inuitive, complete, elegant, fast playing and fun.
Later edition of D6 Star Wars might have fixed some bugs, but at they lost some of that essential simplicity.
I'll second that. WEG Star Wars (especially 1E) had a very fast and loose feel to it that completely emulated the genre. The revised edition fixed a few bugs, but started a trend where Jedi quickly became uber powerful combat machines. I always said if you want to emulate the original trilogy, go with 1E. If you want the lightsaber action of the prequels, go with the revised and expanded edition. Both have their place, depending on the type of campaign you want to run.
I don't factor the d20 versions into it. They just don't feel like Star Wars to me. But if the kids are used to WoW and other level-up video games (or any of the Star Wars Knights of the Old Republics), they might feel comfortable with it.
Pete
Quote from: pspahn;396960I'll second that. WEG Star Wars (especially 1E) had a very fast and loose feel to it that completely emulated the genre. The revised edition fixed a few bugs, but started a trend where Jedi quickly became uber powerful combat machines. I always said if you want to emulate the original trilogy, go with 1E. If you want the lightsaber action of the prequels, go with the revised and expanded edition. Both have their place, depending on the type of campaign you want to run.
I don't factor the d20 versions into it. They just don't feel like Star Wars to me. But if the kids are used to WoW and other level-up video games (or any of the Star Wars Knights of the Old Republics), they might feel comfortable with it.
Pete
Thx guys. The kids are so young, 5 and 6, that the system will be stripped down significantly anyhow. But as they get older I'd like it to grow with them. Right now their influences are the movies, the animated series on TV, and the Legos sets they have. :) I played a made-up-on-the-spot game with the 6 yr old today, using a skeletal bare bones system I created as I went, and he was really into it. I figure if I can use the d6 game, stripped down to its basic core, and add in things as they get older, it should be fun. I guess I'll use the revised 2nd edition, since they have exposure to the new jedi stuff.
Looking forward to it!
I've ran Star Wars Saga Edition for my 6 year old boy and we've had a blast. The best d20 game I've ever read and the best Star Wars game I've ever read. Flexible with potential for coolness that starts at level 1 and only explodes from there.
I don't think I would introduce the WotC versions of the Star Wars rpgs to some 6 year olds, unless they're already well versed in video games.
A simplified version of the WEG Star Wars would probably be a better introduction for 6 year olds really into Star Wars.
I'm rather fond of WEG's version of Starwars. I think they captured the feel of the movies rather well and the nature of the d6 system ensures that all players are balanced with the other players in terms of abilities. It is simple, and straight forward, and you can do pretty much whatever you wish with the system, it's very easy to work with. What I really like about it, is that they ported it to a board game, so if you wish to run a space battle wargaming style, you can check out Star Warriors, which is a very fun game in itself.
This is not the case with Saga edition, which I've been playing for the last 2 years on a weekly basis. The aliens are bland, the ships are tasteless and the force powers pretty much trump anybody(this was also the case in WEG, but in order to gain force powers, you had to handicap your character in other ways), and the force user's abilities to block blaster fire or melee attacks without the need to roll dice is kind of ridiculous(They still have to roll, but any jedi worth their salt will be able to block anything from anyone up to about 5 levels higher than they are). They also garbled up the hand to hand combat. Grappling is silly, and most of the weapons that aren't blasters or lightsabres are laughable in their uselessness. For instance, if you sneak up on someone and use a garrote on them, they get to automatically escape the razor thin wire wrapped around their throat without rolling. Added to that, thanks to the manic publishing schedule of Wizards, you a many volume encyclopedia of talents, feats, skills and powers every character has, and you'll be left with a feeling of vertigo when you try to run a game.
I guess I just really don't like Saga edition. People tout it as the ultimate d20 game out there, but I think the 3.5 rule set was much better.
Quote from: p4nic;396982I guess I just really don't like Saga edition. People tout it as the ultimate d20 game out there, but I think the 3.5 rule set was much better.
How would the Saga edition compare to the d20 versions of Star Wars from 2000 and 2002 (revised)? (I've never played the Saga edition).
Quote from: ggroy;396983How would the Saga edition compare to the d20 versions of Star Wars from 2000 and 2002 (revised)? (I've never played the Saga edition).
Light years better.
No spending Vitality points to use Force Powers, prestige classes are far more accessible, the classes are far more customizable (and reduced to five base classes), skills are dramatically simplified.
Quote from: p4nic;396982I'm rather fond of WEG's version of Starwars. I think they captured the feel of the movies rather well and the nature of the d6 system ensures that all players are balanced with the other players in terms of abilities. It is simple, and straight forward, and you can do pretty much whatever you wish with the system, it's very easy to work with. What I really like about it, is that they ported it to a board game, so if you wish to run a space battle wargaming style, you can check out Star Warriors, which is a very fun game in itself.
This is not the case with Saga edition, which I've been playing for the last 2 years on a weekly basis. The aliens are bland, the ships are tasteless and the force powers pretty much trump anybody(this was also the case in WEG, but in order to gain force powers, you had to handicap your character in other ways), and the force user's abilities to block blaster fire or melee attacks without the need to roll dice is kind of ridiculous(They still have to roll, but any jedi worth their salt will be able to block anything from anyone up to about 5 levels higher than they are). They also garbled up the hand to hand combat. Grappling is silly, and most of the weapons that aren't blasters or lightsabres are laughable in their uselessness. For instance, if you sneak up on someone and use a garrote on them, they get to automatically escape the razor thin wire wrapped around their throat without rolling. Added to that, thanks to the manic publishing schedule of Wizards, you a many volume encyclopedia of talents, feats, skills and powers every character has, and you'll be left with a feeling of vertigo when you try to run a game.
I guess I just really don't like Saga edition. People tout it as the ultimate d20 game out there, but I think the 3.5 rule set was much better.
See, I find D6 to be incredibly bland. I played it for years in and around high school and tried to get back into it a couple of years ago and...ugh. One of my personal pet peeves is massive skill lists, and that's what 95% of your character is. Nothing about D6 screams action packed or cinematic to me, and the only thing about it I still really, really like is the die cap system for different combat scales (such as characters vs walkers and so on).
All that being said, I would still use D6 before I would the first two d20 versions. Ugh.
IMO, along with FASERIP Marvel, d6 Star Wars is an ideal introductory RPG for kids. I may be biased because those were the first two RPGs that I ran by myself for friends, but hey... empirical evidence.
I played d20 Star Wars when it came out. It was terrible. It felt nothing like Star Wars.
I like SW D6 for sentimental reasons, as I've played a couple of epic campaigns back in the day. I find the system OK, nothing thrilling, but very functional (as long as you're not rolling oodles of dice).
Since those are very young kids, you might want a pretty, new, shiny book. And sadly there's no comparing production values for WotC books to the old WEG editions, though I feel D6 is friendlier.
I'd just use some variant of FATE tbh. Here are the reasons:
1. 3.0 is free (if you haven't some version of it at home anyway)
2. It does cinematic better than d6 and d20
3. The math involved is better to grasp for children (you know, just add the pluses and subtract the minuses from your skill etc.)
4. It allows you to easily scale the level of detail
5. Does anyone really need to pay for books containing star wars background? I mean seriously that seems just silly considering that most of us grew up with that stuff/have lived with it for a long time
I think the SAGA version is the best SW game I've read. I think the D20 SW game would make a great generic sci-fi game. Even a good cyberpunk setting. I think the Ultimate Alien Anthology is one of the best D20 books I ever read. Races that can be used in any D20 game. Just imagine a standard D&D game with nothing but SW races.
Quote from: Saphim;3970363. The math involved is better to grasp for children (you know, just add the pluses and subtract the minuses from your skill etc.)
Negative numbers may be deceptively hard for young kids to grasp.
WEG d6 Star Wars is great, till you get powerful Force-users. Then it becomes "The Amazing and his Medicore Friends!"
Saga d20 is the best of the d20 systems, hands down. About the biggest loss is the lack of multiple attacks (a gun can autofire, a character cannot), and the starship combat is still flaky to me.
It comes down to emulation for me; if I'm going with OT, where Force Powers are uber-rare and really put you in danger of meeting a guy named Vader, definitely WEG d6. If you want to go more PT or Clone Wars, then I'd go Saga d20.
(Note: if you make Force Powers work off an attribute, with Control, Sense, & Alter skills based off of it, I find that works wonders. Any damage from Force Powers is based off the Attribute, rather than the skill.)
Quote from: The Butcher;397047Negative numbers may be deceptively hard for young kids to grasp.
I'm going to keep it real simple, not even show them rules or books. Just a character sheet with simplified scores/skills/abilities on it. For example, in the impromptu game I ran the other day with the 6 yr old, I had him roll a 1d6 for each of muscles, brains, health, and quickness. That was simple enough for him to understand. And the check to climb the rope with queen amadala holding onto his back was based off his strength, where a 1 on a 1d6 meant he fell. I'm going to keep it at that level of simplicity until they get older, incorporating new rules and abilities as they go.
If you want to simplify D6 further for the kids, you check out the D6 Legends variant http://www.polgarusgames.com/D6-Legend-and-Conversion-OGL.pdf
Basically instead of adding D6 you just count successes.
Star Wars Saga is good for the level ranges where it works. Star Wars D6... it could have been better.
Out of interest, I've heard people argue Saga was the best iteration but I've never seen it. Anyone who's a fan care to share why they think it's so good? Would you use it for original trilogy stuff?
Quote from: D-503;397106Out of interest, I've heard people argue Saga was the best iteration but I've never seen it. Anyone who's a fan care to share why they think it's so good? Would you use it for original trilogy stuff?
Well, since I've run a Demo of SW Saga about a dozen times, I'll try to field this one...
1) Simplified Classes. There is no longer a "Jedi Guardian" and "Jedi Consular" that are mechanically different; there is a "Jedi" class, and you can build them as a fighter-type or force-user based upon Feat & Talent selection. Star Wars, unlike D&D, heavily
favors multi-classing, and makes it relatively simple.
2) Simplified Skills. Not only were skills consolidated down to 14 or so, but Skill Ranks were thrown out, and now you get a +5 bonus if trained in a Skill, which can be raised to +10 with the Skill Focus Feat. This makes Skill selection something you do at lvl1, not every level. You can still gain a new Skill by taking a Feat, if you so choose. Skills, trained or not, get a bonus of half your level, making a high level character inherently better at skills than a lower level one of equal training.
3) Simplified Defense & Saves: Defense is based off your Reflex (Dex) Save, and all Saves are static numbers, not rolls with bonuses. You just have to roll to see if an attack beat the DC now, rather than an attack and save roll. Defense goes up as you level, and armor is effective at lower levels, & to those that specialize in it at higher levels.
4) No extra attacks: No extra attacks for just standing around whaling on each other (the +20/+15/+10/+5 attacks of earlier incarnations). You can only take extra attacks if you dual wield or take special Feats, both of which have serious penalties to attack (making it an anti-mook ability, not anti-BBEG ability). This makes tactical attacks (disarm, trip, sunder) more attractive, and makes seeking advantaged ground more critical, rather than just seeing "who can outlast whom". (This is one of the more contentious issues I and my players have; I love this change, most of my players hate it)
5) Force Powers: No longer burn HP, but you have a limited amount you can use per fight. They are also more effective at lower levels (and against mooks), than against higher-level characters (hence why Jedi & Sith pull lightsabers).
6) No "wasted" levels: Each level in a base Class nets you either a Feat or a Talent, so you have no "wasted" levels, where you don't get any mechanical advantage to your character (beyond potential BAB, HP, and Save increase).
Frankly, having played SW Saga for over a year now, I do not recommend it.
This is one of those "spend the first game session generating characters" games. The Scout class (which mysteriously does not get the Treat Injury skill, even though Soldiers do) isn't so much a class as a way for Soldiers to lose a point of BAB in order to take Evasion. The Scoundrel class is good for nothing (except possibly the Knack talent); you might as well take Noble and walk away with 2 extra skills (which amount to feats), and if you want to be an underworld type, just take the Connections talent. Talents by the way, are the same thing as feats, except that you have to be in a certain class to take them (even though the bonus feats given by classes can only be drawn from a limited pool, making the distinction redundant).
The skill system is somewhat simplified from earlier incarnations (and this is a good thing). However, there are 3 main problems with it.
1) You cannot take skills from outside your class. At all. Even if you spend a feat on it. Your droid engineer character, being a Noble, is incapable of learning Mechanics.
2) Skills are either overly broad, or useless. All technical knowledge is either in Mechanics or Computer use, and virtually all characters will have these skills. And yet, there is a Jump skill. Let that sink in for a moment. The Endurance skill represents the same thing as Fortitude, and is thus redundant. The knowledge skills, other than Galactic Lore, are nigh worthless.
3) You add your whole level to Defense. The majority of characters will add their whole level to attacks. And yet, skills only get half your level. You start the game with skills being 5 or more higher than any other bonus, and end with them lagging behind, because the designers refused to use the levels system consistently.
The level range was poorly thought out. Even Jedi Padawans are listed as being 5th level on average, but the game becomes too complex to manage past about 10th level, given that you get at least one feat or talent every level. By 10th level, you are toting around 14 of them.
Two methods of playing droids are given; treating them as a race that is rolled up normally, or playing a stock model. However, the second option is a a mess of unclear rules and trap options, in part because "nonheroic" levels should not exist. As a side not, droids have no Constitution score, a rule that has been stupid in every game it has been in. Mysteriously, they still have Fortitude and can make Endurance checks.
Jedi are grossly overpowered, but you probably expect that. The real weird part is the way that force powers are used: you select a "suite" of force powers; if you take the same power twice you will get to use it twice. Every encounter, you can use each power in your suite once. Given that this setup is alien to the movies and books (and videogames, for that matter), I do not know why it was included. Also, if you don't houserule to allow non-Jedi force users to take the Jedi class but not get the lightsaber proficiency, they more or less can't be used.
Force points: just like every other "action point" system shoved into every game since the 90s. Move along, nothing to see here.
Destinies: Good idea, poor implementation. The idea is that working towards personal goals is mechanically incentivized, and you are, through the Destiny Fulfilled bonus, which entails something like an ability score boost or a skill bonus. However, the rules for "Moving closer to fulfilling you goal" are fiddly and add nothing to the game, and Destiny points are like Force Points, but worse. Despite the uses described in the book, they exist only for destiny point wars: someone attacks you, you spend a DP to negate the attack, they spend a DP to negate yours, etc.. They suffer from a problem similar to that of Perfect Defenses in Exalted.
Combat takes much longer than it needs to. The average attack will result in 4 dice of damage, and this number must then be compared to the targets Damage Threshold to see if the Condition Track (which is separate from HP) goes down. Attacks of Opportunity are still in the game (despite having had 3 editions to realize that they are a terrible idea). Lightsaber attacks are based on Strength, for some reason. Also, some lightsabers are referred to as "well balanced", which is impossible and a misunderstanding of the term.
In order to compensate for the handful of dice that are rolled for damage, characters start with huge piles of HP (Jedi and Soldiers start with 30+their Constitution modifier). The "Second Wind" mechanic allows you to, if you have have fewer than half your maximum HP left (?) spend a turn to regain some. This seems to exist only to prolong fights.
In order to benefit from wearing armor, you will be required to take 2 different talents which are available only to Soldiers. Note that this isn't Vacc Suit Operation; the game requires you to take Talents too make armor protect you.
The starship rules vary between two extremes: simplistic, and bean-counting. On the simplistic side, the hyperspace travel rules are a downgrade from the earlier SW D20 games, and are not even in the core book. On the bean-counting side, it never occurred to the authors to use a damage "scale" system (like in D6); instead, every single attack has you rolling 6-10 dice, and multiplying the result, for damage. On top of that, the shield rules result in every ship rolling a Mechanics check to recover 5 points of Shield Rating, every turn.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Quote from: D-503;397106Out of interest, I've heard people argue Saga was the best iteration but I've never seen it. Anyone who's a fan care to share why they think it's so good? Would you use it for original trilogy stuff?
I mentioned my reasons up thread, and I would absolutely use it for original trilogy stuff. It's the only official Star Wars RPG I would still use as a GM (I could probably still be convinced to play D6).
Thanks guys, nice range of opinions.
The feat per level thing, I get how if you start at level 10 that would be a total pain but if you start at first and work up won't you get to know them gradually through play?
Quote from: D-503;397131The feat per level thing, I get how if you start at level 10 that would be a total pain but if you start at first and work up won't you get to know them gradually through play?
More or less. The problem is, 10th is only half way up; at level 20 a character will have 27 feats and talents. Note that if you're playing a Jedi, you also get force powers and force secrets.
Hieronymus Rex' experience is diametrically opposed to mine.
I've never encounterred the stuff he calls out.
The Jedi in my group is outmatched by both the scoundrel and soldier in terms of skill and combat abilities. Granted, he has "the force", but he's not "grossly overpowered" at all.
Oh, and BTW, HR also didn't mention the jedi class is neither needed nor restricted to Jedi only.
But, i guess that's what he learned from playing it, not GMing it.
@D-503: I'd advise you take a look at the system yourself and not rely on neither my nor Hieronymus Rex' oppinion, because we're both biased as heck.
Oh, and if nothing works out at all, go look for the Savage Worlds conversion, there's a nice one out there, and Cheyenne Wright even made a nice stylized character sheet for it. ^^
Edit: It's ridiculous how HR twists truth.
A Jedi/Force-User does NOT get force powers for free as he levels up, he has to buy them (how many of them depends on Wisdom) via the force training feat, so a Force-user always has to split between his combat ability or force powers or other expertise fields.
A good lightsaber combatant won't be a competent force user etc.
Quote from: Phantom Black;397166Oh, and if nothing works out at all, go look for the Savage Worlds conversion, there's a nice one out there, and Cheyenne Wright even made a nice stylized character sheet for it. ^^
Incidentally, if I weren't using Star Wars Saga Edition, Savage Worlds is what I would be using.
Quote from: Phantom Black;397166the jedi class is neither needed nor restricted to Jedi only.
While the class is explicitly open to force users that are not Jedi, it remains a problem that they receive a lightsaber and the proficiency for it whether or not they should. Also, while one could play a force user that didn't take the Jedi class, it would gimp them something awful, since they would not be able to use their talents or bonus feats on the Force.
Quote from: Phantom Black;397166A Jedi/Force-User does NOT get force powers for free as he levels up, he has to buy them (how many of them depends on Wisdom) via the force training feat...
What I meant was that Jedi have more things to keep track of, not that they get things for free. Since Force Training grants 3-5 powers when taken, this creates a net increase.
Quote from: Novastar;397048WEG d6 Star Wars is great, till you get powerful Force-users. Then it becomes "The Amazing and his Medicore Friends!"
As a former fan of D6 and someone who not long ago ended a year and a half campaign with a jedi character I have to say I totally agree.
Not to mention that D6 while light and fast breaks at high levels
Quote from: Hieronymous Rex;397119This is one of those "spend the first game session generating characters" games. The Scout class (which mysteriously does not get the Treat Injury skill, even though Soldiers do) isn't so much a class as a way for Soldiers to lose a point of BAB in order to take Evasion.
Or progress in to get the Bounty Hunter PrC, or take the Talent tree to become a fricken' Ninja.
But I'll agree that Evasion is too powerful of a Talent, to have no prerequisites. It encourages a level dip in Scout, just to get it.
But that was intentional on the designers part; they wanted people to multi-class freely in Star Wars Saga.
QuoteThe Scoundrel class is good for nothing (except possibly the Knack talent); you might as well take Noble and walk away with 2 extra skills (which amount to feats), and if you want to be an underworld type, just take the Connections talent.
Except the whole, you know, not having "Stealth" as a Class skill. Scoundrel's have access to a better "shady character" skill list, and definitely Talents. Yes, building a Crimelord is easy enough with a Noble, but building a Smuggler is easier with Scoundrel.
QuoteTalents by the way, are the same thing as feats, except that you have to be in a certain class to take them (even though the bonus feats given by classes can only be drawn from a limited pool, making the distinction redundant).
I like that type of Archetype protection, and you still get a universal Feat every 3rd level.
Quote1) You cannot take skills from outside your class. At all. Even if you spend a feat on it. Your droid engineer character, being a Noble, is incapable of learning Mechanics.
With
The Rebellion Era Sourcebook, that's not wholely true anymore. You can sacrifice the Destiny Point mechanic, in favor of Backgrounds. Backgrounds let you choose Skills outside of your Class List.
Quote2) Skills are either overly broad, or useless. All technical knowledge is either in Mechanics or Computer use, and virtually all characters will have these skills. And yet, there is a Jump skill. Let that sink in for a moment. The Endurance skill represents the same thing as Fortitude, and is thus redundant. The knowledge skills, other than Galactic Lore, are nigh worthless.
I find skill use depends greatly upon a GM's playstyle, more than anything. Jump gets used A LOT in my games, as I favor buccaneer-style sword fights.
Quote3) You add your whole level to Defense. The majority of characters will add their whole level to attacks.
That's not true; two Classes get a 1:1 BAB, but the other three are 2:3 BAB ratio's.
QuoteThe level range was poorly thought out. Even Jedi Padawans are listed as being 5th level on average, but the game becomes too complex to manage past about 10th level, given that you get at least one feat or talent every level. By 10th level, you are toting around 14 of them.
I have never, ever, in 10 years of playing a d20 product, had a player complain they have "too many" Feats in a game. Not once. The reverse is quite common.
QuoteTwo methods of playing droids are given; treating them as a race that is rolled up normally, or playing a stock model. However, the second option is a a mess of unclear rules and trap options, in part because "nonheroic" levels should not exist. As a side not, droids have no Constitution score, a rule that has been stupid in every game it has been in. Mysteriously, they still have Fortitude and can make Endurance checks.
You do know they made an entire book,
The Scavengers Guide to Droids, on how to generate Droid PC's?
QuoteJedi are grossly overpowered, but you probably expect that. The real weird part is the way that force powers are used: you select a "suite" of force powers; if you take the same power twice you will get to use it twice. Every encounter, you can use each power in your suite once. Given that this setup is alien to the movies and books (and videogames, for that matter), I do not know why it was included.
So people don't spam attack with their favorite Force Attack?
QuoteAlso, if you don't houserule to allow non-Jedi force users to take the Jedi class but not get the lightsaber proficiency, they more or less can't be used.
Anyone can get the WP(Lightsaber) as one of their "every 3rd level" Feats. And you can use it even without the WP, at -5 to the roll.
QuoteDestinies: Good idea, poor implementation. The idea is that working towards personal goals is mechanically incentivized, and you are, through the Destiny Fulfilled bonus, which entails something like an ability score boost or a skill bonus. However, the rules for "Moving closer to fulfilling you goal" are fiddly and add nothing to the game, and Destiny points are like Force Points, but worse. Despite the uses described in the book, they exist only for destiny point wars: someone attacks you, you spend a DP to negate the attack, they spend a DP to negate yours, etc.. They suffer from a problem similar to that of Perfect Defenses in Exalted.
I agree whole-heartedly, which is why I like the Background mechanic for Rebellion Era so much.
QuoteIn order to benefit from wearing armor, you will be required to take 2 different talents which are available only to Soldiers. Note that this isn't Vacc Suit Operation; the game requires you to take Talents too make armor protect you.
No, it takes 2 Talents to make it useful, once your level bonus exceeds the armor value. Stormtrooper armor is useful for anyone having AP(light) till 6th level (when the bonuses are equal; and Stormtrooper armor also provides a small Fortitude Defense bonus, too).
Quote from: Daedalus;397177As a former fan of D6 and someone who not long ago ended a year and a half campaign with a jedi character I have to say I totally agree.
Not to mention that D6 while light and fast breaks at high levels
That's true, but the quesstion is, should Star Wars be played with high level characters?
There is not right or wrong answer, it's a matter or perception and taste. I belong to the orignail trilogy generation, most of the characters were good at what they did, but they weren't superheroes. There weren't even James Bonds. Sure there were the Jedi's, but there were only three in the movies, and two were dead so I never went into a Star Wars game expecting actual Jedi.
Of course the Clone War generation is an entierly different ballgame.
QuoteBut that was intentional on the designers part; they wanted people to multi-class freely in Star Wars Saga.
"Multi-classing freely" isn't the problem; the problem is that characters whom no-one would call "Scouts" have a strong incentive to take a 1 level dip of the class.
QuoteExcept the whole, you know, not having "Stealth" as a Class skill.
On the other hand, the Stealth skill isn't all that useful, and if you want it, you can just dip Scoundrel (or Scout, actually). Technology like the Xerrol Nightstinger, Flash Suppressor, Sound Sponge, and especially Shadowskin Armor make actually taking Stealth skill optional. For that matter: Did Han Solo have Stealth, and if he did not, why is it essential? "I prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around".
QuoteI like that type of Archetype protection, and you still get a universal Feat every 3rd level.
First of all, you can't have both "Free Multiclassing" and "Archetype Protection". Second, my point in that statement was that they were trying to do the same thing two different ways.
QuoteWith The Rebellion Era Sourcebook, that's not wholely true anymore. You can sacrifice the Destiny Point mechanic, in favor of Backgrounds. Backgrounds let you choose Skills outside of your Class List.
Conceded. However, giving up the lucrative destiny fufillment bonuses is quite a hoop to jump through just to play Qwi Xux.
QuoteThat's not true; two Classes get a 1:1 BAB, but the other three are 2:3 BAB ratio's.
While it is true that the majority of
classes don't get full BAB, the 2/3 of the classes that anyone in my group plays (outside of short dips) have full BAB: Jedi and Soldiers.
QuoteSo people don't spam attack with their favorite Force Attack?
But they do anyways. Probably the most powerful character anyone in my group ever played was a a Jedi who used Move Object every turn.
QuoteAnyone can get the WP(Lightsaber) as one of their "every 3rd level" Feats. And you can use it even without the WP, at -5 to the roll.
My point there was that people who
shouldn't get lightsaber proficiency (that is, non-Jedi force users) do anyways.
QuoteNo, it takes 2 Talents to make it useful, once your level bonus exceeds the armor value. Stormtrooper armor is useful for anyone having AP(light) till 6th level (when the bonuses are equal; and Stormtrooper armor also provides a small Fortitude Defense bonus, too).
While it is true that low level characters can ge away without the talents, mid to high level characters all but require armor, if only for the vacc sealing and other enhancements. I take issue with
ever having to take a talent, which, to add insult to injury, is entirely distinct from Armor Proficiencies.