I'm doing a STAR WARS game where i want the player characters to feel like they're the most important people in the galaxy. To that end, it occurs to me one of the best ways to do that is to completely throw the storyline for a loop.
I'm going to do that by having Darth Vader successfully assassinate the Emperor while the PCs are distracting them (and really really out of their depth). I'm thinking they all discover an ancient Sith world or something which attracts both the Dark Lords at once. Palpatine doesn't want anything the Sith spirits inside can offer him but well, Vader does.
Which gives him the boost necessary to slay his master and claim the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith's Master.
It's a good "season" ender and allows for a neat little timeskip.
Yoda, Obi-Wan, and a good number of other Jedi are still alive at this time since it's previous to A New Hope.
I'd be interested in how people would see Darth Vader changing the galaxy and how the dominos might fall as well as possible new adventures which could be taken once he emerges from the planet without his master.
Note: This is about 10 years prior to ANH.
So you remove Palpatine...and replace him with...a Vader boosted enough by Knights of the Old Republic Sith Artifact Shenanigans so he's powerful enough to kill Palpatine.
This makes the PCs the most important people in the Galaxy how?
Granted it frees your campaign from the chains of the cinematic plot, but you have to choose to wear those chains to begin with.
Quote from: CRKrueger;933680So you remove Palpatine...and replace him with...a Vader boosted enough by Knights of the Old Republic Sith Artifact Shenanigans so he's powerful enough to kill Palpatine.
This makes the PCs the most important people in the Galaxy how?
Granted it frees your campaign from the chains of the cinematic plot, but you have to choose to wear those chains to begin with.
It's something of an action bomb meant to signal the rails are off the plot and the PCs are the ones who are truly aware of what's going to happen now. Vader is going to be losing his power off the world anyway, which means that he's a slightly easier target to take down than the Emperor himself. The PCs are also the primary heroes as Han, Luke, and Leia aren't really a part of things anymore and won't be for years.
Also, Vader knows who they are as well.
I suppose I could make it so the PCs are able to assassinate Palpatine during events but I'm not sure they'd take that bait since my players are the kind of people who'd assume it'd automatically feel even if he's distracted fighting Vader.
I agree that Vader killing the Emperor may just leave Vader as the new emperor, but I like the twist and it certainly will let the players know that things won't follow the established canon. Plus, I like Vader better than Palpatine and was always bummed that Vader became a second-rate bad guy in Empire Strikes Back. Vader as the Sauron of the Star Wars universe has a lot of appeal to me.
For inspiration, you might check out the INFINITIES graphic novels by Dark Horse. It's been a while since I read them, but I think there are three and each asks a question like "what if Luke missed when trying to destroy the Death Star." Then they show an alternate history as to how things might have changed.
You could also change the canon in other ways, maybe by going back to the original movie as inspiration. In ANH we all thought that Luke's dad and Vader were two separate guys, so maybe have this be the way it works in this game and have Luke's father appear to help the party only to be killed much like Ben Kenobi was in ANH. This kind of thing may get your players to start to challenge everything they think they know and will free you to do more with the setting.
I would think Vader would lack the skills to run the empire, coupled with him being temper challenged and killing of those first (and afterwards few)adjudants that try to show him what runs wrong.
So it will probably look like a more and more disconnected feudal society with Vader travelling around like an irritated political minded Tarrasque everyone tries to avoid himself and point to any disliked neighbours.
So as long as the PCs avoid to directly show up on Vaders radar, they have much more freedom to act while the official local powers have to avoid to rouse this same attention too.
Quote from: CRKrueger;933680Granted it frees your campaign from the chains of the cinematic plot, but you have to choose to wear those chains to begin with.
Mean Green nails it again.
Quote from: finarvyn;933738Plus, I like Vader better than Palpatine and was always bummed that Vader became a second-rate bad guy in Empire Strikes Back.
Vader was always somebody's bitch. Literally, as Leah points out: "Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash."
Quote from: Maarzan;933740I would think Vader would lack the skills to run the empire, coupled with him being temper challenged and killing of those first (and afterwards few)adjudants that try to show him what runs wrong.
So it will probably look like a more and more disconnected feudal society with Vader travelling around like an irritated political minded Tarrasque everyone tries to avoid himself and point to any disliked neighbours.
So as long as the PCs avoid to directly show up on Vaders radar, they have much more freedom to act while the official local powers have to avoid to rouse this same attention too.
I agree. Vader would demand that laws and regulations be changed to suit his whim, and throw the apparatus of galactic government into chaos whenever he decided to show up.
It would be a very chaotic setting, and probably full of adventure for a while, until everything finally broke apart and turns into Vader running around attacking everyone who won't do what he says.
I envison his final fate as a local dictator, running a single planet from his Iron Fortress, and constantly at war with the splintered Imperial factions and underworld bosses.
Thanks, good ideas so far.
Some ideas I'm playing with are:
1. There's going to be a Civil War within the Empire which results from Vader seizing power from Palpatine without having firmly established himself as the heir. There will be revolts from the Grand Admirals, Moffs, and the Imperial Senate as they all basically have their own ambitions to take over things. I'm torn between Grand Moff Tarkin siding with Vader, going for the Emperorship himself, or appearing loyal while seeking to assassinate himself.
2. This is suddenly a much darker and Grayer world because Darth Vader vs. The Revolting Imperials is a war which people might be able to pick sides on without either really winning. The still-nascent Rebellion might find itself having to support one group or the other or try to figure out how to emerge from within.
3. You could do some fun things like Tarkin giving the Rebels a chance to assassinate Vader while Vader gives the Rebels a chance to blow up the still-incomplete Death Star. Certainly, an assault on the Death Star with the Imperial Navy would be interesting.
4. I'm inclined to think Vader in this reality is a lot less enamored of the Rule of Two than Palpatine as well as not really thinking himself as a Sith. I could easily see him having the galaxy scanned for people with Jedi potential then brought to be educated as part of a Dark Side knighthood.
5. Palpatine dead means that Yoda and Obi-Wan might be able to come out of hiding or at least the other Jedi to be more active as Vader is a more "inside context" problem. He's "just" a Dark Sider that can be defeated. They can't really go after him themselves, though, because Yoda is an old muppet and Obi-Wan would be sensed a mile away.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338701. There's going to be a Civil War within the Empire which results from Vader seizing power from Palpatine without having firmly established himself as the heir. There will be revolts from the Grand Admirals, Moffs, and the Imperial Senate as they all basically have their own ambitions to take over things. I'm torn between Grand Moff Tarkin siding with Vader, going for the Emperorship himself, or appearing loyal while seeking to assassinate himself.
This is obvious. This also means you're going to have to figure out the unique faultlines that will provide the basis of this Civil War. It's not like it'll simply be down either/or (you could - but wouldn't that be boring? Why not have several different angles that vie for power. Some might naturally fold underneath Vader or the opposition with a lot of roleplaying adventures to seal those alliances/defections.) You could have Thrawn come back early with the Imperial Expeditionary fleet and make things really interesting.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338702. This is suddenly a much darker and Grayer world because Darth Vader vs. The Revolting Imperials is a war which people might be able to pick sides on without either really winning. The still-nascent Rebellion might find itself having to support one group or the other or try to figure out how to emerge from within.
Yep - this factors deeply into my suggestion above about making it more than just binary Pro-Vader/Anti-Vader.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338703. You could do some fun things like Tarkin giving the Rebels a chance to assassinate Vader while Vader gives the Rebels a chance to blow up the still-incomplete Death Star. Certainly, an assault on the Death Star with the Imperial Navy would be interesting.
It would definitely change a lot of the status-quo for the Imperials and turn it into a more conventional war that would give the Rebellion (assuming there even is one) a real chance to get going.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338704. I'm inclined to think Vader in this reality is a lot less enamored of the Rule of Two than Palpatine as well as not really thinking himself as a Sith. I could easily see him having the galaxy scanned for people with Jedi potential then brought to be educated as part of a Dark Side knighthood.
*This* is the real game-changer. This is why I detest modern Star Wars with the Rule of Two. It's dumb. Horribly dumb. I see ZERO reason why the Sith would ever keep Darth Bane's dumb idea and prevent themselves from the glory they enjoyed in the Old Republic era. Darth Vader leading a new school for the Sith on Korriban - YES. Make it happen. That will scare the dogshit out of your precious Jedi... MUAHAHAHAHA...oh heh.... sorry. If there were something to toss into your campaign box-o-ideas that will really shake stuff up, assuming you're playing with Jedi/Sith - then this is the gem you need to work on polishing. DO IT!
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338705. Palpatine dead means that Yoda and Obi-Wan might be able to come out of hiding or at least the other Jedi to be more active as Vader is a more "inside context" problem. He's "just" a Dark Sider that can be defeated. They can't really go after him themselves, though, because Yoda is an old muppet and Obi-Wan would be sensed a mile away.
Yoda might not even *know* about Vader starting a new Sith Academy. I mean they were in hiding for a reason, right? Look at it like this - Vader starts training Sith, it would be an adventure in itself to get a new Jedi-initiative even started. You can have Old Ben show up right when you need him most to really kick things into high-gear to get those first Jedi trained up. For advanced training they might have to go up against their counterparts from among the new Sith... maybe they're sent to assassinate Yoda (heh), and the Jedi have to stop them? The sky isn't even the limit on this.
Quote from: tenbones;933916*This* is the real game-changer. This is why I detest modern Star Wars with the Rule of Two. It's dumb. Horribly dumb. I see ZERO reason why the Sith would ever keep Darth Bane's dumb idea and prevent themselves from the glory they enjoyed in the Old Republic era. Darth Vader leading a new school for the Sith on Korriban - YES. Make it happen.
When I did something similar, back in the day, I took it from the second movie. Luke discovering the father he never knew, and coming to the conclusion that Kenobi is a sophistric bastard, joins with Darth Vader. After the two of them throw the Emperor down a well, Emperor Vader and his only trusted agent, Darth Narcis, work to bring back the glory of the Sith Empire.
Yoda holds his head, looks at Kenobi's shade. He mutters "that you are dead, glad I am." And then toddles off to contact the two or three other retired Jedi he knows of to restart a hidden Jedi Academy.
For me - these cinematic trailers capture Star Wars on high-octane mode as it should be.
https://youtu.be/RjG61DoDzN8
(kinda long - but worth the watch).
That was awesome! Thanks for sharing that!
Quote from: Baron Opal;933949That was awesome! Thanks for sharing that!
C'mon - when the Sith attack the Jedi temple and those red light-sabers pop out enmasse? That was goddamn chilling-and-oh-damn-awesome.
This is what Star Wars should be like. It doesn't matter what era you wanna play in.
In the same vein as the OP I always wanted to run a LotR game in which Frodo gets hit by a wagon and the PCs are all Sackville-Baggins who find the One Ring while rooting through their inheritance.
Quote from: tenbones;933950C'mon - when the Sith attack the Jedi temple and those red light-sabers pop out enmasse? That was goddamn chilling-and-oh-damn-awesome.
This is what Star Wars should be like. It doesn't matter what era you wanna play in.
Fun stuff. I see Stormtrooper marksmanship is as ludicrously inaccurate as ever though...
Quote from: Daztur;933953In the same vein as the OP I always wanted to run a LotR game in which Frodo gets hit by a wagon and the PCs are all Sackville-Baggins who find the One Ring while rooting through their inheritance.
Fun stuff. I see Stormtrooper marksmanship is as ludicrously inaccurate as ever though...
Imperial training at its finest.
What's the story behind the gold lightsabers?
Not to derail the thread - there's nothing specific about the colors per se. Originally in the game Sith used red/orange/purple for their sabers. Jedi used green/blue/yellow. Then they tossed that out and you could craft your own saber with whatever color you wanted - including black inverted with only colored auras (which looked wicked).
In the video, these twins are the children of the original Emperor who was *radically* more powerful than Palpatine. Palpatine was about as powerful as mid-rung Sith lord on the Sith Council (which is still very powerful) but the Emperor was practically a force-entity.
Quote from: tenbones;933959Not to derail the thread - there's nothing specific about the colors per se. Originally in the game Sith used red/orange/purple for their sabers. Jedi used green/blue/yellow. Then they tossed that out and you could craft your own saber with whatever color you wanted - including black inverted with only colored auras (which looked wicked).
In the video, these twins are the children of the original Emperor who was *radically* more powerful than Palpatine. Palpatine was about as powerful as mid-rung Sith lord on the Sith Council (which is still very powerful) but the Emperor was practically a force-entity.
The Twins are in the SWToR expansion. In the main game the Sith Emperor is absent for the Sith storylines, and you "kill" him in one of the Jedi storylines. In actually, the Sith Emperor's been a disembodied Force Being for a while who can inhabit different forms. So while he's on vacation from the Sith Empire he's been building a whole new Empire which comes and curbstomps both the Sith and the Jedi with those Twins leading the way. No clue about the maniac girl in the second expansion. :D
Well, guys- apparently the Empire is a WHITE SUPREMACIST ORGANIZATION!
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/the-inevitable-politicization-of-star-wars-rogue-one/508358/
More shit I won't be throwing money at. Star Wars and Marvel can continue to wallow it the mountain of excrement they've made.
Well, yeah. That's as subtle as a brick since 1977.
Quote from: Crüesader;933965Well, guys- apparently the Empire is a WHITE SUPREMACIST ORGANIZATION!
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/11/the-inevitable-politicization-of-star-wars-rogue-one/508358/
More shit I won't be throwing money at. Star Wars and Marvel can continue to wallow it the mountain of excrement they've made.
Anyone who thinks killing Nazis is controversal can fuck right off.
Quote from: Daztur;933971Anyone who thinks killing Nazis is controversal can fuck right off.
I was genuinely surprised by all the people who thought the First Order was more evil than the Galactic Empire because they were Nazi-like and I'm like, "The Empire has ALWAYS been Space Nazis."
Quote from: Daztur;933971Anyone who thinks killing Nazis is controversal can fuck right off.
I was genuinely surprised by all the people who thought the First Order was more evil than the Galactic Empire because they were Nazi-like and I'm like, "The Empire has ALWAYS been Space Nazis."
Quote from: Baron Opal;933956What's the story behind the gold lightsabers?
The Sith Emperor of THE OLD REPUBLIC is actually a character who is surprisingly well-written, at least in the new version of things. After the main game treats him as a mindless Burning legion sort of villain out to consume the galaxy, you find out that's all subterfuge and that he's actually built a separate culture away from the Sith Empire which uses the Light and the Dark Side of the Force. When you confront him as a Light Side Sith, he can basically explain he got utterly sick of what a bunch of cartoonish Supervillains the Sith Empire was.
You know...he's not wrong.
Interestingly, I'm actually wholesale cribbing the Zakuul plot for this very game as the PCs other enemies than Vader are a Force-wielding monarchy which managed to survive by appearing loyal to the Empire but is actually plotting against Vader and the Emperor. The PCs will help kill the "Tion Emperor" and then get haunted by his ghost as Arcann and his sister serve as Vader's minions.
Quote from: Daztur;933971Anyone who thinks killing Nazis is controversal can fuck right off.
I'd always pictured them as a 'pro-human supremacy' group. The 'white supremacy' angle is their new Socjus clusterfuck.
Well, never was completely enamoured with Star Wars. Guess now I can just write them off entirely. Meh. Let me know when these folks start getting fired and writers without a political axe to grind start doing things.
Quote from: Crüesader;933982I'd always pictured them as a 'pro-human supremacy' group. The 'white supremacy' angle is their new Socjus clusterfuck.
Well, never was completely enamoured with Star Wars. Guess now I can just write them off entirely. Meh. Let me know when these folks start getting fired and writers without a political axe to grind start doing things.
It's also manifestly not true since this is the leader of the Empire in the canon Post-ROTJ timeline.
(http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/styles/rectangle_960x480/public/VaderSloane.jpg?itok=ThoM_S8p×tamp=1466097086)
Of course, I assume any geeks who are actually put off by that are trolling because no one can seriously think the Empire aren't Space Nazis.
Quote from: CTPhipps;933984Of course, I assume any geeks who are actually put off by that are trolling because no one can seriously think the Empire aren't Space Nazis.
I can see the fascism and authoritarianism. But the 'white supremacy' thing is something I don't buy.
The Empire caring about the Master Race and exterminating the genetically inferior? Nah.
The Empire treating all alien cultures as savage Bloody Wogs that need to be controlled and civilized/exploited for the Good of the Empire? Closer to the Mark.
They didn't put the Wookies into Death Camps, they enslaved them and put them in work camps and reservations. The Empire's got a Nazi clothing fetish to make them easy bad guys but their sins are much closer to the worst abuses of British and American colonialism than Nazi Genocide.
Quote from: Crüesader;933985I can see the fascism and authoritarianism. But the 'white supremacy' thing is something I don't buy.
Obviously not with John Boyega.
I think the idea is they're saying, "The Empire hating aliens is meant to represent white supremacy."
Jews=Elves in Dragon Age and all that.
You know, metaphor.
Quote from: CRKrueger;933986The Empire caring about the Master Race and exterminating the genetically inferior? Nah.
The Empire treating all alien cultures as savage Bloody Wogs that need to be controlled and civilized/exploited for the Good of the Empire? Closer to the Mark.
They didn't put the Wookies into Death Camps, they enslaved them and put them in work camps and reservations. The Empire's got a Nazi clothing fetish to make them easy bad guys but their sins are much closer to the worst abuses of British and American colonialism than Nazi Genocide.
Notably, the Empire is based on a combination of the Nazis/Ancient Rome/Nixon's America according to Lucas.
So yeah, there's a diluted racism there but not an extermination level.
They prefer to enslave people rather than annihilate them.
Edit:
Strictly speaking in WEG games Star Wars (which I played, nonstop for ten years), I drew from the original Flash Gordon Pulps a lot with the Empire. I based them on a tribute system more than anything else with local governments being largely left intact but subject to the Imperial Governors who did less ruling than supervising the taxation and exploitation of the populace. The Empire usually had relatively small garrisons on worlds so the PCs could actually deal with them numbers-wise but the worlds, themselves, always lived in fear of the Imperial Navy showing up and blasting them from orbit.
All of the Empire's wealth went to either expanding the military and the Emperor's private projects (Byss, The Death Star, Sith research) or was spent on enriching the Core Worlds. Maybe like 20% of the Empire's taxes went to lining the pockets of the Core Worlds and so on. The Emperor, himself, wasn't speciest but made use of the fact humans were the most populace race in the galaxy to divide and conquer.
By pitting humans against aliens, neither side could ever really overwhelm the other because they hated each other more than they hated the Emperor. While the Empire was mostly human, I also had a bunch of satrapies like the Old Marvel comics. Places like Persia where an alien despot would rule in the Empire's name.
Destroying Alderaan was also supposed to be a psychological blow against the galaxy as a whole. If they destroyed Alderaan, the center of pacifism in the universe, then the galaxy as a whole would become more violent and angry and dark which would fuel the Empire as well as the Emperor himself.
Palpatine can at least lay a legitimate claim to leading the Empire. Vader can not.
Palpatine has shown that he is a master of politics and complex scheming. Vader has not.
Palpatine surrounds himself with capable minions. Vader does not.
Vader going rogue and becoming the top target of the Inquisition after leaving the Empire without an Emperor is a far more likely outcome than Vader becoming the next Emperor.
I know that the Empire is intended to smell like Nazi Germany, but to me it looks more like the worst excesses of European colonialism (British Empire, Spanish conquistadors, etc.). They largely were not about dehumanizing those they had lieved among for generations, it was more about exploiting the primitive "others" that they encountered away from their "Core World" of Europe.
Quote from: HappyDaze;933991Palpatine can at least lay a legitimate claim to leading the Empire. Vader can not.
Palpatine has shown that he is a master of politics and complex scheming. Vader has not.
Palpatine surrounds himself with capable minions. Vader does not.
Vader going rogue and becoming the top target of the Inquisition after leaving the Empire without an Emperor is a far more likely outcome than Vader becoming the next Emperor.
Palpatine surrounds himself with fools and plays them against each other. He's a scheming politician.
Vader is about efficiency and order as well as a military dictatorship.
Also, Palpatine's Inner Circles are going to follow the Sith because they're servants of the Dark Side.
Fuck politicizing Star Wars.
It was supposed to be something we could all enjoy.
What's next SJW Care Bears vs. Alt-Right Smurfs?
Damn, its high time to burn this world to a crisp.
I think in the A New Hope period, Darth Vader would be able to seize the mantle of the Emperor because he's been a known quantity.
Beforehand, I think Vader might need a proxy.
Like, say, forcing Mas Amedda to be the new Chancellor and naming Vader head of the military.
Grand General or whatever.
As to the "rule of two" thing for the Sith, I always felt like Lucas got the two groups confused somehow. The Jedi might enforce a "rule of two" to self-police their organization, but the Sith would be active recruiters in order to spread their views as rapidly as possible. I haven't read the old era stuff, however, and maybe they explain it better than I understand it.
Of course, if the Jedi are supposed to be the galactic police force, then having only two cops doesn't work well, either.
Quote from: finarvyn;934001As to the "rule of two" thing for the Sith, I always felt like Lucas got the two groups confused somehow. The Jedi might enforce a "rule of two" to self-police their organization, but the Sith would be active recruiters in order to spread their views as rapidly as possible. I haven't read the old era stuff, however, and maybe they explain it better than I understand it.
Of course, if the Jedi are supposed to be the galactic police force, then having only two cops doesn't work well, either.
I think the Rule of Two exists solely so the Sith don't suffer Villain DecayTM. The idea being that there's only one Sauron and one Saruman so that a Sith Lord never becomes a mook. I think it makes less sense as an actual doctrine of faith. It makes more sense if the Sith have only been passing down their knowledge one to one if they're in hiding from the Jedi or the Emperor intends for Vader to eventually replace him.
Quote from: Spinachcat;933994Fuck politicizing Star Wars.
....Damn, its high time to burn this world to a crisp.
I learned to read from Sesame Street, the Funny Papers, and Comic Books before I started school. My whole life, I've loved comics. I've made friends over comics. I've given children old comics of mine, taught them, and watched these kids grow into fans. I've bought absurd merch. I've had costumes.
But since these things became politicized, I began a personal boycott. I won't even open the box of comics I've still got (mostly GI Joe, Transformers, and Conan).
These writers are making me hate things that used to bring me closer to people, and Star Wars is just another example. I've never been a huge fan of Star Wars (I do have the classic, unaltered trilogy on VHS), but I used to appreciate it.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934016I think the Rule of Two exists solely so the Sith don't suffer Villain DecayTM. The idea being that there's only one Sauron and one Saruman so that a Sith Lord never becomes a mook. I think it makes less sense as an actual doctrine of faith. It makes more sense if the Sith have only been passing down their knowledge one to one if they're in hiding from the Jedi or the Emperor intends for Vader to eventually replace him.
It was instituted by Darth Bane. And it was shortsighted because by limiting the Sith to only two - it meant that there were only two force-users of that philosophy to explore the bounds of that philosophy in practice. This is like saying only two physicists from a particular school of thought can ever exist. Yeah it's dumb. It makes sense from Bane's perspective to knock-off all other competitors but then that proves his idiocy since competition is one of the strengths of the Sith (and yes, one of its weaknesses that led Bane to this absolutist position).
Take a look at the modern era of Star Wars - how much Force knowledge is being expanded on? ZERO. Meanwhile in the Old Republic era they were developing Force powers that Palpatine and his era could only guess at. Hence the power of the original Emperor was *vastly* more ambitious and scary.
As for the white-supremacy shit. Fuck off with that. The Empire has *always* been about supremacy for the ruling class. In the Old Republic it was for the Sith race - which ended up taking human DNA to continue its own line but it diluted their Force sensitivity. Humans ended up taking over. The Empire has almost always been about humans first. This whole dumb idea about it being about white-supremacy is idiotic.
Quote from: CTPhipps;933995I think in the A New Hope period, Darth Vader would be able to seize the mantle of the Emperor because he's been a known quantity.
Beforehand, I think Vader might need a proxy.
Like, say, forcing Mas Amedda to be the new Chancellor and naming Vader head of the military.
Grand General or whatever.
See, I don't agree. I think by
Empire he could. I think it was Tarkin keeping him in check so much so that he was Tarkin's watchdog (see Leia's comments on the matter). But by
Empire, the GE had, shall we say "a fairly dynamic, zero-defects promotion" scheme in place thanks to Vader.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9338704. I'm inclined to think Vader in this reality is a lot less enamored of the Rule of Two than Palpatine as well as not really thinking himself as a Sith. I could easily see him having the galaxy scanned for people with Jedi potential then brought to be educated as part of a Dark Side knighthood.
A test for Jedi already exists, so it's likely that Vader was already scanning people just keeping the data secret from the Emperor. These newly trained dark Jedi could be just the tool Vader needs to establish control over the Empire.
Also, this testing will have found Luke. Who, lacking the lies of Obi-Wan, will naturally serve as Vader's right hand man and be the main villain to the PCs.
So, I'd suggest setting this particular campaign to just before ANH, rather than 10 years before.
Quote from: Daztur;933971Anyone who thinks killing Nazis is controversal can fuck right off.
Not controversial, just lazy and overdone.
Art is, IMHO, political and any art which doesn't make a statement is worthless. You can make mindless brain candy but I think that is intellectually lazy and not something which should be encouraged. You may DISAGREE with the politics of art but all art is political. Even if it's something simple like, "fascism is bad."
And killing Nazis may be overdone in media but that's in large part because of Star Wars and Indiana Jones, which got there first (after WW2 at least).
Re: Vader and his Ascension
1. How the Emperor dies: I'm thinking for the actual adventure where the PCs go to Sith PlanetTM, I'm going to set up they're looking for an ancient Sith weapon and trying to destroy it before the Sith Lords get to it. I'm thinking instead of an actual weapon, though, it's going to turn out to be an Army of the Sith frozen in time by said artifact or carbonite or whatever.
With the advice given here in the game, I'm going to have the Emperor show up and the PCs are faced up against him and aware they're screwed but either have them accept the power of the Sith spirits around to attack Palpatine and leave him vulnerable to attack or have them refuse and then Vader will stab Palpatine in the back while he's distracted. Give them the option of being the ones to deliver the killing blow but really, either way, involved in the Emperor's assassination.
2. Thrown out of time: The PCs will escape the Sith Planet but there will be a kind of weird accident that leaves them in a hyperspace dilation for five years. When they emerge, Vader has been Emperor of the Galaxy for the past five years and released all of the Sith on Sith Planet which were frozen in time.
3. How Vader got to be Emperor: After Vader emerged from Sith planet, he claimed the Emperor was killed by the Rebel Alliance and then proceeds to blow up the Imperial Senate with a crashing Star Destroyer that he also blames on this mostly non-existant rebellion. He thus uses the disaster to get himself declared as Galactic Protector of the Empire.
I'm inclined also to have Vader plop up a little 5 year old looking child as the new Emperor, which is really just a clone of Palpatine or a boy taken from Naboo. Hell, it might also be a clone of himself because Vader is weird that way. Vader then begins a series of miltary conquests across the galaxy and makes use of hefty bribes ala Julius Caesar versus Palpatine's Augustus.
His Sith Knights are called the Shadow Knights and basically claimed to be the Jedi who didn't participate in the coup against Palpatine and have been cleared. They obey Vader because they're Old Republic MMORPG-era Jedi and Vader is just shy of Darth Vitiate in terms of power level so after suitable demonstration, they all submit to him.
Quote from: Crüesader;934024But since these things became politicized, I began a personal boycott.
Fuggedaboutit.
Don't let the clowns diminish your enjoyment of something you love with their stupidity.
Enjoy the good stuff. Toss the crap. Laugh at SJWs. Rinse and repeat.
Quote from: hedgehobbit;934045A test for Jedi already exists, so it's likely that Vader was already scanning people just keeping the data secret from the Emperor. These newly trained dark Jedi could be just the tool Vader needs to establish control over the Empire.
Also, this testing will have found Luke. Who, lacking the lies of Obi-Wan, will naturally serve as Vader's right hand man and be the main villain to the PCs.
Good idea!
...and they can rule the galaxy as father and son...
Ideas and comments to help crystallize your plot idea!
Quote from: CTPhipps;934076Re: Vader and his Ascension
1. How the Emperor dies: I'm thinking for the actual adventure where the PCs go to Sith PlanetTM, I'm going to set up they're looking for an ancient Sith weapon and trying to destroy it before the Sith Lords get to it. I'm thinking instead of an actual weapon, though, it's going to turn out to be an Army of the Sith frozen in time by said artifact or carbonite or whatever.
With the advice given here in the game, I'm going to have the Emperor show up and the PCs are faced up against him and aware they're screwed but either have them accept the power of the Sith spirits around to attack Palpatine and leave him vulnerable to attack or have them refuse and then Vader will stab Palpatine in the back while he's distracted. Give them the option of being the ones to deliver the killing blow but really, either way, involved in the Emperor's assassination.
The Old Republic MMO had a similar concept based on this cadre of Sith Lords so fucking crazy they were imprisoned in carbonite on the secret prison-planet of Belsavis (they were called the Dread Masters http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dread_Masters). They were in stasis for so long that when the original Emperor dies, they're released and go renegade. They're pretty scary and they'd probably waste Palpatine with zero effort as a group. Individually he could give a good showing.
There's also another option - a Sith Holocron. Maybe your PC's acquire a Holocron of a Sith Lord that imparts whatever teachings you require as a GM to kickstart how the original Sith Order codified things (which you can do as you see fit). And try to lure them directly to the darkside. Or at the very least it might lead directly to your frozen Sith spirits.
If you can tempt them over it will differentiate them from the Darth Bane Rule-o'-Two model. It would also give Darth Vader a stronger sense of ideological purity behind his motives than just "I'm going to kill Palapatine and do my own Emperoring."
Another obvious option is that Vader is the one that discovered the Holocron which gave him deeper insights into the "Real Sith Way" which he pursues on his own (or with the PC's help) which could lead directly to option #2 below.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9340762. Thrown out of time: The PCs will escape the Sith Planet but there will be a kind of weird accident that leaves them in a hyperspace dilation for five years. When they emerge, Vader has been Emperor of the Galaxy for the past five years and released all of the Sith on Sith Planet which were frozen in time.
Never a bad thing to do. But there's a lot of potential gameplay if you can thread #1 and #2 together and make it so the PC's cause #2.
Quote from: CTPhipps;9340763. How Vader got to be Emperor: After Vader emerged from Sith planet, he claimed the Emperor was killed by the Rebel Alliance and then proceeds to blow up the Imperial Senate with a crashing Star Destroyer that he also blames on this mostly non-existant rebellion. He thus uses the disaster to get himself declared as Galactic Protector of the Empire.
IMO - it's a little "schemey" for Vader - but I could see it happen.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934076I'm inclined also to have Vader plop up a little 5 year old looking child as the new Emperor, which is really just a clone of Palpatine or a boy taken from Naboo. Hell, it might also be a clone of himself because Vader is weird that way. Vader then begins a series of miltary conquests across the galaxy and makes use of hefty bribes ala Julius Caesar versus Palpatine's Augustus.
I like the clone of himself. There's something creepy and narcissistic about it that feels flawed and perfect for Vader among other things.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934076His Sith Knights are called the Shadow Knights and basically claimed to be the Jedi who didn't participate in the coup against Palpatine and have been cleared. They obey Vader because they're Old Republic MMORPG-era Jedi and Vader is just shy of Darth Vitiate in terms of power level so after suitable demonstration, they all submit to him.
This could dovetail very nicely with #1, #2, and the clone bit.
I've never actually thought Vader was not a villainous mastermind actually. No, he's not Emperor Palpatine but if we recall the Original Trilogy:
1. He lets the Rebels escape in order to follow them back to their base.
2. He uses probe droids to scour the galaxy for the Rebels
3. He employs Bounty Hunters
4. He turns Lando against Han in order to capture him
5. He kept Luke secret from the Emperor while plotting against him
In short, I think Vader is actually very schemey.
He's just straightforward and blunt compared to Palpatine who would make Machiavelli look like Dirk Justice.
QuoteThe Old Republic MMO had a similar concept based on this cadre of Sith Lords so fucking crazy they were imprisoned in carbonite on the secret prison-planet of Belsavis (they were called the Dread Masters http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dread_Masters). They were in stasis for so long that when the original Emperor dies, they're released and go renegade. They're pretty scary and they'd probably waste Palpatine with zero effort as a group. Individually he could give a good showing.
There's also another option - a Sith Holocron. Maybe your PC's acquire a Holocron of a Sith Lord that imparts whatever teachings you require as a GM to kickstart how the original Sith Order codified things (which you can do as you see fit). And try to lure them directly to the darkside. Or at the very least it might lead directly to your frozen Sith spirits.
If you can tempt them over it will differentiate them from the Darth Bane Rule-o'-Two model. It would also give Darth Vader a stronger sense of ideological purity behind his motives than just "I'm going to kill Palapatine and do my own Emperoring."
Another obvious option is that Vader is the one that discovered the Holocron which gave him deeper insights into the "Real Sith Way" which he pursues on his own (or with the PC's help) which could lead directly to option #2 below.
I'm actually a big fan of Knights of the Old Republic and that's a big influence on the rest of the game as I'm causally ripping off plots left and right to make use of them in the game. Leading up to this game, which is the "second season" of the game, we actually had the PCs in Zakuul during the Clone Wars. I may well draw from the Outlander plot wiht the players setting up the Resistance against Vaders in this reality.
In this universe, the two Force Using PCs are the Arcann and Vaylin equivalent's siblings.
Really, though, the LS Sith Inquisitor has probably surpassed Revan for favorite Star Wars EU characters.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934191In short, I think Vader is actually very schemey.
He's just straightforward and blunt compared to Palpatine who would make Machiavelli look like Dirk Justice.
Vader is absolutely loyal to Palpatine. Pathetically so. In RotJ, he had the chance to kill the Emperor, join with Luke, and take over the Empire but he chose not to. Maybe this was just lazy screenwriting or a desire the conclude the story but I still can't get over it.
Quote from: Spinachcat;934080...and they can rule the galaxy as father and son...
That simpering little bitch-man?
No, Vader should ally with the Skywalker child with real balls.
(http://oi6.tinypic.com/2po5zz5.jpg)
Quote from: CTPhipps;934191I've never actually thought Vader was not a villainous mastermind actually. No, he's not Emperor Palpatine but if we recall the Original Trilogy:
1. He lets the Rebels escape in order to follow them back to their base.
2. He uses probe droids to scour the galaxy for the Rebels
3. He employs Bounty Hunters
4. He turns Lando against Han in order to capture him
5. He kept Luke secret from the Emperor while plotting against him
In short, I think Vader is actually very schemey.
SWEET now I can attack you!!!
See, I don't see these things as being schemey at all. These are all just standard operating procedure for a good command officer from the Empire. Vader is not doing anything particularly special (except the Luke secrets). Okay... that was a weak attack.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934191He's just straightforward and blunt compared to Palpatine who would make Machiavelli look like Dirk Justice.
Exactly. So hatching a PR campaign to justify his assassinating the Emperor sounds a bit too... schemey. Vader would just boldface say "Now *I* am the Master." and force-choke the shit out of anyone that said otherwise. Search your feelings, you know it's true.
Quote from: CTPhipps;934191I'm actually a big fan of Knights of the Old Republic and that's a big influence on the rest of the game as I'm causally ripping off plots left and right to make use of them in the game. Leading up to this game, which is the "second season" of the game, we actually had the PCs in Zakuul during the Clone Wars. I may well draw from the Outlander plot wiht the players setting up the Resistance against Vaders in this reality.
In this universe, the two Force Using PCs are the Arcann and Vaylin equivalent's siblings.
Really, though, the LS Sith Inquisitor has probably surpassed Revan for favorite Star Wars EU characters.
Yeah I raided in SWTOR for *years* and until the last two expansions I thought SWTOR in particular, was the best thing Star Wars ever produced. Better than the original trilogy *by far*. There is too much of the modern EU that can't extricate itself from the Skywalker/Solo families that just turns into endless narrative incest that makes the Old Republic era so much better and expansive. Frankly it's because it's a more honest sandbox to game in. Notice the very discussions in this thread that devolve into the binary "Kill Nazis" good-guy/bad-guy thing just because Lucas wrote it that way. When in the Old Republic setting you have those things, but you have a lot more nuance, a lot more options with free reign to mix it all up. *Especially* when it comes to Force-users.
And yeah... Revan. There's always Revan. In the modern EU - I'd put all the Tim Zahn stuff up there too. But Old Republic has the Chiss, so win/win
Quote from: Black Vulmea;934233That simpering little bitch-man?
No, Vader should ally with the Skywalker child with real balls.
Now *this* has some definite interesting possibilities in terms of alt-timelines. Ooooo
Quote from: tenbones;934239Now *this* has some definite interesting possibilities in terms of alt-timelines. Ooooo
Especially if Leia is half the Superfreak Carrie Fisher was. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;934277Especially if Leia is half the Superfreak Carrie Fisher was. :D
She'd be a total Sith. Freaky-deaky indeed.
Quote from: tenbones;934239Now *this* has some definite interesting possibilities in terms of alt-timelines. Ooooo
*
drops mic*