I was looking on Ebay and I saw the original Box set for Star Frontiers and I was wondering if it's a fun game and worth picking up?
I know that WOTC it back and is selling it online on Drivethrurpg and you can no longer get it for free.
One one hand getting it online can be a bit expensive, but I would have the print version (no interest in .pdfs) and WOTC would not get a dime.
On the other hand I could get it cheaper on Drivethrurpg, get it printed but WOTC would get money from me. Which I do not want to do.
So my questions are:
1) Is it worth picking up?
2) Should I get it on Ebay or Drivethroughrpg?
Thanks
Never heard of it. Who makes it? You didn't mean Star Frontiers?
I'll bet you meant Star Frontiers. I played it once and mechanically it didn't capture my interest. But I also disliked the setting's tone, the aliens, and the fact that when it was first released (which is when I played it) there were no rules for starships. Oh, also the art sort of turned me off.
OTOH I love Classic Traveller, if that helps you determine whether my tastes and yours coincide.
If I'm playing a space game I want a spaceship. Star Flumpers explicitly says you can't have one. Maybe they just didn't want to write travel rules. There is a Star Frontiers Remaster for free if you just wanna check out the content. https://starfrontiers.us/node/162 nope looks like they got the wotc pinkerton treatment. It's still out there though.
Quote from: Hixanthrope on April 29, 2023, 01:42:03 PM
If I'm playing a space game I want a spaceship. Star Flumpers explicitly says you can't have one. Maybe they just didn't want to write travel rules. There is a Star Frontiers Remaster for free if you just wanna check out the content. https://starfrontiers.us/node/162 nope looks like they got the wotc pinkerton treatment. It's still out there though.
There was an expansion called Zebulon's Guide which did add rules for spaceships. (I think it was Zebulon's, maybe some other book.) Unfortunately, the skill requirements for flying one were ridiculously high, so your average party still couldn't do it.
As others have said you probably are talking about Star Frontiers. It had an original box set and later they referred to it as Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn, because they quickly came out with another box set called Star Frontiers Knight Hawks. Knight Hawks was completely a ship expansion. It had complete rules for space ships of all sizes, fighters, shuttles, freighters and every type of capital ship one could want including science vessels.
The mechanics of both were not really for me but the overall tone and style I really liked. It was '80s science fiction. Kind of a blend of space pulp and a little gritty science fiction.
Quote from: Theory of Games on April 29, 2023, 12:02:19 PM
Never heard of it. Who makes it? You didn't mean Star Frontiers?
Yes, apparently I was a victim of an incorrect spell checking.
Yes, Star Frontiers originally published by TSR.
Corrected the spelling on the original post
Quote from: Greg Bruni on April 29, 2023, 03:08:34 PM
As others have said you probably are talking about Star Frontiers. It had an original box set and later they referred to it as Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn, because they quickly came out with another box set called Star Frontiers Knight Hawks. Knight Hawks was completely a ship expansion. It had complete rules for space ships of all sizes, fighters, shuttles, freighters and every type of capital ship one could want including science vessels.
The mechanics of both were not really for me but the overall tone and style I really liked. It was '80s science fiction. Kind of a blend of space pulp and a little gritty science fiction.
So would you say it is worth picking up?
Star Frontiers is a neat little game. There's a few places it could be better. The setting is under cooked and even with all the modules doesn't really get enough development.
The aliens are fun and reasonably playable. Not just your average cat headed guys but not sentient colours and pixellated nanomolecular gesalts either.
It's a bit Buck Rogers and a Bit Star Trek. I've got a friend who merged a ton of Star Trek and Star Fleet stuff into his version of the setting. I keep trying to convince him to rub off the serial numbers and publish but to no avail.
Anyhow, it's very much a game from TSR's map and counters game period. So there are movement and vehicle rules and counters and a big city map. The first adventure involves a firefight with pirates on a space liner and then a crash landing on an alien world. So, the alien world gets development but not the broader setting.
The second game, Knight Hawks adds space craft. You have to be very high level characters to use space craft. The rules are servicable, a hex and counter war game that doesn't do much to bring the player characters into it. I've played a few games with my friend and hsi broken house rules of which the less is said the better. Knight Hawks does bring a bit of history and context to the setting through the scenarios.
The thing you really want is a compilation of the Dragon Magazine articles. Including the Tanks A Lot article that adds military vehicles. There's around four alien races added that later appear in Zebulon's Guide.
Zebulon's guide is the last thing the game needed, a new system that uses a complex universal table. It does do some things with the skill system and IRRC adds psychic powers to the game.
So, I guess the question is whether you're looking for an old school map and counter sf game. It's solid enough. There's a few things I'd change. I'd do all the skills as 1/2 stat + 10 x skill rather than the fixed values and treat the subskills as task difficulty modifiers. I'd rule that taking 50% of your stamina in a single hit incapcitates to speed up combat a bit.
Generally I'd suggest Traveller or Spacemaster or Starcluster or Galaxies In Shadow but I do like Star Frontiers. It's solid, tight, and fun, but the setting is pretty minimal.
There may still be a fan archive that lists where everything you need can be found.
I got a used copy of Alpha Dawn and Knight Hawks out of nostalgia. It's an interesting system, and a fun setting, but there are other sci fi RPGs I'd rather play.
I'd say get it if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, but it's not a must have.
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 29, 2023, 04:22:04 PM
I got a used copy of Alpha Dawn and Knight Hawks out of nostalgia. It's an interesting system, and a fun setting, but there are other sci fi RPGs I'd rather play.
I'd say get it if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, but it's not a must have.
Money burning a hole in my pocket? No.
Looking to relieve the past magic I felt in gaming? Yes.
I like Star Frontiers. Keep in mind I am old-school. The premise is that it is set towards the center of a galaxy, so stars are a lot closer together, and the distances between star systems is much shorter. There are four playable species. I actually have little experience with RPGs, but I enjoyed playing Star Frontiers. I would try it. And even if you don't like it, you have a nice piece of collectible RPG history, or could resell it for a good price.
Eh, I don't know. While I've fond memories and whatnot, there are games out there with much better systems in place (if that is your thing) with much better settings in place (if that is your thing). But, it's your cash at the end of the day and "my opinion and etc., etc."
I played Star Frontiers when it came out in the eighties. It was the right game for me as a teen. Races were interesting and it really fueled our imagination.
Five years ago I was trying to make the decision about rekindling the fun or try Traveller. When I looked at Star Frontiers again, it seemed too juvenile for me. So I let that memory lay in a good place. The same thing happened when I tried to reread the first Dragonlance novel - Dragons of Autumn Twilight - too hokey, so I left it unfinished before I ruined the childhood memory.
I went with 2e Mongoose Traveller and it was a great decision. Ran a 3 year campaign. What a great system too.
Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn was the original, I think. As said above, Knight Hawks gave rules for starships. Zebulon's Guide to the Frontier gave more gear and deeper setting info, I think. The modules that I read were really simplistic and seemed like they were written for kids when I look at them now.
Interestingly, I went to Total Confusion in Feb. in MA and got into a Star Frontiers game because nothing else really appealed to me in that time slot. It went alright with that GM, but I couldn't see a long running game.
I loved it as a kid, but would give it a pass now. Good luck.
You might consider DwD Studio's FrontierSpace -- an homage to Star Frontiers.
It's a decent if crunchy (to us) system. And the writer is going to be publishing spaceship creation rules soon. Ignore the "d00lite" designation.
Player's Handbook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Referee's Guide
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook)
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 29, 2023, 11:41:30 AM
I was looking on Ebay and I saw the original Box set for Star Frontiers and I was wondering if it's a fun game and worth picking up?
I know that WOTC it back and is selling it online on Drivethrurpg and you can no longer get it for free.
One one hand getting it online can be a bit expensive, but I would have the print version (no interest in .pdfs) and WOTC would not get a dime.
On the other hand I could get it cheaper on Drivethrurpg, get it printed but WOTC would get money from me. Which I do not want to do.
So my questions are:
1) Is it worth picking up?
2) Should I get it on Ebay or Drivethroughrpg?
Thanks
Buy it Drive-thru for $10, and if you like it, then look for a copy on Ebay. It was fun in the 80s, but there are better sci-fi games out now.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 29, 2023, 11:41:30 AM
I was looking on Ebay and I saw the original Box set for Star Frontiers and I was wondering if it's a fun game and worth picking up?
1) Is it worth picking up?
2) Should I get it on Ebay or Drivethroughrpg?
Yes. Fun little game, but Knight Hawks is essential. They really blew it not having ship rules in the original set, that hurt the sales and long term interest in the game. Ironically I repeated the mistake with my own Colonial Troopers sci-fi game, and fixed the problem with an expansion book called ... wait for it: Knight Hawks.
Get it on DriveTHRU. I mean the box is cool when it still has all the maps and tokens, so sure get it if you can.
Is there a retroclone or something?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
Is there a retroclone or something?
Space Frontier from DWD upthread, you can hunt down a d20 conversion on line and Microlite20 did a supplement for their M20 modular, the last two are free to download.
As other folks have said, Star Frontiers IS more about its nostalgia. The system is percentile based and each combat round you are going to be blasting each other round after round ticking off Stamina points just like hitpoints. It's very easy for someone to look at Star Frontiers with its cool artwork from Elmore, Easley, Parkinson, Caldwell and the other TSR artists and think that the game might have something different than other games. As other folks have said, it doesn't.
You could play Traveller or the Cepheus system or Stars Without Number or perhaps many other games and do the same thing as Star Frontiers. It literally brings nothing different to the Genre. The Knight Hawks expansion is very crunchy. To me it felt like the old Star Fleet Battles tactical ship game. Knight Hawks is pretty much a game in itself.
Several years ago I did a Savage Worlds conversion of Star Frontiers. I included everything from the original game and just changed the mechanics to Savage Worlds. I included all the original artwork including the covers, did a character sheet, and converted the first adventure titled 'Crash on Volturnus'. I contacted Wizards of the Coast, told them what I was doing and they DID respond. They said that it was okay for me to do this because they had "no intentions of doing anything with Star Frontiers in the future."
So for me Star Frontiers has a place in MY gaming history, but to be honest, there are other games out there that will do and have anything that Star Frontiers is.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
Is there a retroclone or something?
There's always Frontier Space.
I think Irridium from Precis Intermedia is a derivative of Star Frontiers, but I'm not quite sure, the designer is certainly a fan.
I would argue that Star Frontiers does offer something other games don't. The top down, on the grid, hex and counter inspired out look on combat. Knight Hawks is really a separate game, a tactical starship combat sim. Yes Traveller had some side games of the sort at the time but has long since wandered off from that structure. Star Frontiers also offers a very tight technological pardigm. It's not about tech levels and advancement. There's also something to be said for not having grown into a massive 800 page monstrosity over the years.
To my mind the biggest downside is the need to buy all the modules and dig up all the Dragon articles to get the whole thing. But that in itself is something of a quest. The fans used to have it all in one place but WotC made them take it down.
Quote from: Cathode Ray on April 29, 2023, 07:20:30 PM
I like Star Frontiers. Keep in mind I am old-school. The premise is that it is set towards the center of a galaxy, so stars are a lot closer together, and the distances between star systems is much shorter. There are four playable species. I actually have little experience with RPGs, but I enjoyed playing Star Frontiers. I would try it. And even if you don't like it, you have a nice piece of collectible RPG history, or could resell it for a good price.
Thank you for the information.
Quote from: Tod13 on April 29, 2023, 09:04:27 PM
You might consider DwD Studio's FrontierSpace -- an homage to Star Frontiers.
It's a decent if crunchy (to us) system. And the writer is going to be publishing spaceship creation rules soon. Ignore the "d00lite" designation.
Player's Handbook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Referee's Guide
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook)
Thank you for the links.
How is the system? Is it easy to learn?
Does it have the feeling of Star Frontiers?
Any other information you can give me? I am interested and may consider this as a cheaper way to go since there are a lot of people speaking against Star Frontiers and it would be a cheaper way to go.
Thanks.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:18:21 AM
Buy it Drive-thru for $10, and if you like it, then look for a copy on Ebay. It was fun in the 80s, but there are better sci-fi games out now.
Can you name some of the other games I should consider?
Quote from: Greg Bruni on April 30, 2023, 11:02:16 AM
Several years ago I did a Savage Worlds conversion of Star Frontiers. I included everything from the original game and just changed the mechanics to Savage Worlds. I included all the original artwork including the covers, did a character sheet, and converted the first adventure titled 'Crash on Volturnus'. I contacted Wizards of the Coast, told them what I was doing and they DID respond. They said that it was okay for me to do this because they had "no intentions of doing anything with Star Frontiers in the future."
So for me Star Frontiers has a place in MY gaming history, but to be honest, there are other games out there that will do and have anything that Star Frontiers is.
Thats a thought since I love Savage Worlds maybe I will just get the information, create a Savage World Version of Star Frontiers and just go that route. It's a thought.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 30, 2023, 11:44:53 AM
Quote from: Greg Bruni on April 30, 2023, 11:02:16 AM
Several years ago I did a Savage Worlds conversion of Star Frontiers. I included everything from the original game and just changed the mechanics to Savage Worlds. I included all the original artwork including the covers, did a character sheet, and converted the first adventure titled 'Crash on Volturnus'. I contacted Wizards of the Coast, told them what I was doing and they DID respond. They said that it was okay for me to do this because they had "no intentions of doing anything with Star Frontiers in the future."
So for me Star Frontiers has a place in MY gaming history, but to be honest, there are other games out there that will do and have anything that Star Frontiers is.
Thats a thought since I love Savage Worlds maybe I will just get the information, create a Savage World Version of Star Frontiers and just go that route. It's a thought.
That's a great idea. The draw to SF is the four alien races. It uses a not so great percentile system, where atts don't affect skills.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:15:16 PM
That's a great idea. The draw to SF is the four alien races. It uses a not so great percentile system, where atts don't affect skills.
The easy solution is to just change all the skills to 1/2 stat +10 / rank and turn the subskills into modifiers by subtracting 50.
Weapons are already 1/2 dexterity +10 per rank so it's an easy patch.
You can speed up combat by having any attack that does more than half a character's current stamina knock them out.
Small changes.
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 30, 2023, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: Tod13 on April 29, 2023, 09:04:27 PM
You might consider DwD Studio's FrontierSpace -- an homage to Star Frontiers.
It's a decent if crunchy (to us) system. And the writer is going to be publishing spaceship creation rules soon. Ignore the "d00lite" designation.
Player's Handbook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Referee's Guide
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook)
Thank you for the links.
How is the system? Is it easy to learn?
Does it have the feeling of Star Frontiers?
Any other information you can give me? I am interested and may consider this as a cheaper way to go since there are a lot of people speaking against Star Frontiers and it would be a cheaper way to go.
Thanks.
You missed the SF revival heyday. Bill Logan (DWD studios) took SF, added better art, and gave away the pdf for free. Then he started Star Frontiersman, 20 or so monthly pdfs. I think you can still get those for free on drive thru, and they have tons of ideas. He had to yank the original rules though, when WOTC decided to sell the original (pdf).
Bill went on to create FrontierSpace, which was his version of SF. He cleaned up the rules and created his own aliens. I never bought it so I can't say much more. DWD created a few other d100 games, like Bare Bones Fantasy and Covert Ops. I've heard good things about all of them, but if i wanted to do percentile based fantasy I'd use Mythras. Regardless the DWD website is worth a visit, check it out.
Quote from: David Johansen on April 30, 2023, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
Is there a retroclone or something?
There's always Frontier Space.
I think Irridium from Precis Intermedia is a derivative of Star Frontiers, but I'm not quite sure, the designer is certainly a fan.
I would argue that Star Frontiers does offer something other games don't. The top down, on the grid, hex and counter inspired out look on combat. Knight Hawks is really a separate game, a tactical starship combat sim. Yes Traveller had some side games of the sort at the time but has long since wandered off from that structure. Star Frontiers also offers a very tight technological pardigm. It's not about tech levels and advancement. There's also something to be said for not having grown into a massive 800 page monstrosity over the years.
To my mind the biggest downside is the need to buy all the modules and dig up all the Dragon articles to get the whole thing. But that in itself is something of a quest. The fans used to have it all in one place but WotC made them take it down.
Is there a retroclone that retroclones all that material so I don't have to go hunting because stupid WotC threw a hissy fit again? I'm still bitter they took down Alternity from drivethrurpg in 2008 and still haven't restored it. WotC owns a ton of IPs they aren't using or trying to preserve. I really hate the company.
I'd love to make retroclones of their discarded IPs, but quite frankly that would be way too much effort for too little investment. I want the old games back. I don't want to jump through the stupid hoops created by overly long copyright terms mandated by Disney just to recapture the damn magic and rebuild the dying community.
Did you know the original writers behind Alternity snatched up the trademark when WotC let it lapse and tried to recreate the game? They failed and it spectacularly exploded in flames because they realized too late that they didn't actually have the rights because of copyright law.
Copyright law needs to be reformed. If publishers aren't keeping their products perpetually in print, then they should lose their rights to it after long enough out of print. Copyright law was invented to protect authors who wanted to profit from their work for a time before giving it to the public. The law was never intended to lock down content until all records had been lost. The evil Disney corporation has perverted the law and ruined it for everyone else.
Argh!
EDIT: Here's some scientific research about how long copyright is anti-preservation: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/How_Copyright_Keeps_Works_Disappeared_-_Paul_Heald.pdf
EDIT: and a proposal for reform by authors: https://authorsalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/Documents/Authors%20Alliance%20%7C%20Principles%20and%20Proposals%20for%20Copyright%20Reform.pdf
Quote from: David Johansen on April 30, 2023, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:15:16 PM
That's a great idea. The draw to SF is the four alien races. It uses a not so great percentile system, where atts don't affect skills.
The easy solution is to just change all the skills to 1/2 stat +10 / rank and turn the subskills into modifiers by subtracting 50.
Weapons are already 1/2 dexterity +10 per rank so it's an easy patch.
You can speed up combat by having any attack that does more than half a character's current stamina knock them out.
Small changes.
Sure that works, but its one of 5 issues with the game that Bill breaks down in Star Frontiersman issue 9 ("A Skilled Frontier") with proposed solutions. Which I think started FrontierSpace.
Star Frontiersman magazines (free)
https://starfrontiersman.com/magazines.php
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
Copyright law needs to be reformed...
The evil Disney corporation has perverted the law and ruined it for everyone else.
Totally agree. Say I'm twenty years old and I publish something awesome. I can see having forty or fifty years from which to have exclusive rights. Maybe that's even too long before it goes into public domain. But it should go into public domain before everyone who knows the property is dead, because the ability to publish related works (or re-publish it) has little chance of catching the eye of younger generations. Those kids have no relationship with the property and so aren't interested. So everyone who's part of the "Public" and actually interested and engaged gets nothing.
Quote from: Baron on April 30, 2023, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
Copyright law needs to be reformed...
The evil Disney corporation has perverted the law and ruined it for everyone else.
Totally agree. Say I'm twenty years old and I publish something awesome. I can see having forty or fifty years from which to have exclusive rights. Maybe that's even too long before it goes into public domain. But it should go into public domain before everyone who knows the property is dead, because the ability to publish related works (or re-publish it) has little chance of catching the eye of younger generations. Those kids have no relationship with the property and so aren't interested. So everyone who's part of the "Public" and actually interested and engaged gets nothing.
Eh. While I agree that copyright law in America is ridonkulous, I also think that people should be coming up with their own IP instead of piggybacking off of an existing one.
Have a tired, shitty sci fi idea that no one likes? Slap the Star Wars label on it! :P
That's what I should do with Galaxies In Shadow! STAR WARS! GALAXIES IN SHADOW! It is a dark time for Disney striking from twitter the internet fanbase has rejected their social engineering scheme to indoctrinate another generation. Escaping with their plans to convert to the 2d20 system, rebel agents flee from the empire's sinister agents.
1. Why not use a modified D&D system, why did TSR go for a percentile based? And did that work better for Sci fi?
2. Assuming the percentile worked better, why did TSR create a new system when Lorraine shoved Buck Rogers down everyones throat, why not use Star Frontiers system and make Buck Rogers a setting box (as TSR was big on setting boxes at the time).
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 29, 2023, 11:41:30 AM
So my questions are:
1) Is it worth picking up?
2) Should I get it on Ebay or Drivethroughrpg?
Thanks
1) No
2) See previous answer
Quote from: Ruprecht on April 30, 2023, 09:39:29 PM
1. Why not use a modified D&D system, why did TSR go for a percentile based? And did that work better for Sci fi?
2. Assuming the percentile worked better, why did TSR create a new system when Lorraine shoved Buck Rogers down everyones throat, why not use Star Frontiers system and make Buck Rogers a setting box (as TSR was big on setting boxes at the time).
TSR made a habit of using a new system for almost every game. 3e Gamma World piggy-backed on their Marvel rules, but Gamma World, Gangbusters, Boot Hill, Conan, Indiana Jones, Buck Rogers, Star Frontiers, all had different game systems. Very different from Chaosium and their Basic Roleplaying in every game.
IMO if you've got a good system, suitable for multiple genres and vibes, then it makes sense to share it among your game lines. As Chaosium did. OTOH if you try something new with each game launch, well maybe you'll strike gold on one and it will end up head and shoulders above the rest.
Oh right, TSR already had that with D&D. <shrug>
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:45:36 PM
Quote from: GhostNinja on April 30, 2023, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: Tod13 on April 29, 2023, 09:04:27 PM
You might consider DwD Studio's FrontierSpace -- an homage to Star Frontiers.
It's a decent if crunchy (to us) system. And the writer is going to be publishing spaceship creation rules soon. Ignore the "d00lite" designation.
Player's Handbook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222633/FrontierSpace-Players-Handbook)
Referee's Guide
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/225299/FrontierSpace-Referees-Handbook)
Thank you for the links.
How is the system? Is it easy to learn?
Does it have the feeling of Star Frontiers?
Any other information you can give me? I am interested and may consider this as a cheaper way to go since there are a lot of people speaking against Star Frontiers and it would be a cheaper way to go.
Thanks.
You missed the SF revival heyday. Bill Logan (DWD studios) took SF, added better art, and gave away the pdf for free. Then he started Star Frontiersman, 20 or so monthly pdfs. I think you can still get those for free on drive thru, and they have tons of ideas. He had to yank the original rules though, when WOTC decided to sell the original (pdf).
Bill went on to create FrontierSpace, which was his version of SF. He cleaned up the rules and created his own aliens. I never bought it so I can't say much more. DWD created a few other d100 games, like Bare Bones Fantasy and Covert Ops. I've heard good things about all of them, but if i wanted to do percentile based fantasy I'd use Mythras. Regardless the DWD website is worth a visit, check it out.
FrontierSpace uses the same d100 mechanic as BareBone Fantasy and Covert Ops. But the feel and crunch is very different. We did playtesting with it. Typical d100/d00 mechanics - if I recall correctly roll-under a percent figured from a combination of skills and abilities. (Combinations are pre-calculated on your character sheet.) Lots of tracking of supplies and consumables. It was pretty fun but more crunch than we prefer.
As I recall, character creation was flexible and fun. Characters came out with useful skills - you weren't flailing about unable to do something because nobody chose Cleric.
The main thing is the attitude within the game is just fun. And we love the moral guidelines and character quirks. It gives people that need or enjoy it hooks for role-playing.
Oh, and all DwD Studio stuff that can be is some form of Creative Commons. I think he has (or is) redoing the one or two OGL things he had as CC.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:15:16 PM
That's a great idea. The draw to SF is the four alien races. It uses a not so great percentile system, where atts don't affect skills.
That's what I am most likely going to do. Turns out I have the main rules in .pdf (got it when it was still available for free) and I will use that to make the convert.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 02:45:36 PM
You missed the SF revival heyday. Bill Logan (DWD studios) took SF, added better art, and gave away the pdf for free. Then he started Star Frontiersman, 20 or so monthly pdfs. I think you can still get those for free on drive thru, and they have tons of ideas. He had to yank the original rules though, when WOTC decided to sell the original (pdf).
Bill went on to create FrontierSpace, which was his version of SF. He cleaned up the rules and created his own aliens. I never bought it so I can't say much more. DWD created a few other d100 games, like Bare Bones Fantasy and Covert Ops. I've heard good things about all of them, but if i wanted to do percentile based fantasy I'd use Mythras. Regardless the DWD website is worth a visit, check it out.
Cool, I will be sure to check out his website and other games. Are they still active or just selling what they have already created?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
If publishers aren't keeping their products perpetually in print, then they should lose their rights to it after long enough out of print. Copyright law was invented to protect authors who wanted to profit from their work for a time before giving it to the public. The law was never intended to lock down content until all records had been lost. The evil Disney corporation has perverted the law and ruined it for everyone else.
I do think that if they are not planning to do anything with the product they should sell it to another company who wants to do something with it and make themselves some money.
Quote from: Aglondir on April 30, 2023, 03:31:31 PM
Star Frontiersman magazines (free)
https://starfrontiersman.com/magazines.php
Thank you! Bookmarked
[quote author=GhostNinja link=topic=46224.msg1252561#msg1252561 date=1682945839
I do think that if they are not planning to do anything with the product they should sell it to another company who wants to do something with it and make themselves some money.
[/quote]
No, that's the opposite of what WotC did. Someone wanted to do something with it and make some money so they took the toys and slammed the door in eveyone's face.
Quote from: jeff37923 on April 30, 2023, 11:07:59 PM
1) No
2) See previous answer
Ok thanks for your answers.
Quote from: David Johansen on May 01, 2023, 09:11:34 AM
No, that's the opposite of what WotC did. Someone wanted to do something with it and make some money so they took the toys and slammed the door in eveyone's face.
Well we have see as of late that WOTC is not great with making smart decisions (OGL, Pinkertons, etc).
Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 30, 2023, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: Baron on April 30, 2023, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 30, 2023, 02:52:26 PM
Copyright law needs to be reformed...
The evil Disney corporation has perverted the law and ruined it for everyone else.
Totally agree. Say I'm twenty years old and I publish something awesome. I can see having forty or fifty years from which to have exclusive rights. Maybe that's even too long before it goes into public domain. But it should go into public domain before everyone who knows the property is dead, because the ability to publish related works (or re-publish it) has little chance of catching the eye of younger generations. Those kids have no relationship with the property and so aren't interested. So everyone who's part of the "Public" and actually interested and engaged gets nothing.
Eh. While I agree that copyright law in America is ridonkulous, I also think that people should be coming up with their own IP instead of piggybacking off of an existing one.
Have a tired, shitty sci fi idea that no one likes? Slap the Star Wars label on it! :P
I tried doing that with Star*Drive. I gave up because it was too much work for too little gain when what I wanted was Star*Drive. I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to avoid being sued for copyright infringement when WotC doesn't even make the books legally available for purchase.
Star*Drive has too many specific unique features to skirt around in a retroclone. It wouldn't be a decent substitute. At least from my perspective. I don't have any co-authors to provide second opinions.
Even FrontierSpace plays too conservatively in my opinion. You could ripoff TSR's aliens from their various scifi games a bit more closely by drawing from the same scifi tropes.
If anyone is interested I found a place where someone is hosting the Savage Worlds conversion that I did. I will admit I don't really like the computers and robots sections that I converted. I can't upload them to this site because the file sizes are too big. With these at least one can see the artwork and tropes to see if they would like Star Frontiers in general.
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021044/star-frontiers-players-guide-savage-heroes (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021044/star-frontiers-players-guide-savage-heroes)
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021103/star-frontiers-gm-guide-savage-heroes (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021103/star-frontiers-gm-guide-savage-heroes)
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/3323081/crash-on-volturnus-savage-heroes (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/3323081/crash-on-volturnus-savage-heroes)
Quote from: Greg Bruni on April 30, 2023, 11:02:16 AM
Several years ago I did a Savage Worlds conversion of Star Frontiers. I included everything from the original game and just changed the mechanics to Savage Worlds. I included all the original artwork including the covers, did a character sheet, and converted the first adventure titled 'Crash on Volturnus'. I contacted Wizards of the Coast, told them what I was doing and they DID respond. They said that it was okay for me to do this because they had "no intentions of doing anything with Star Frontiers in the future."
So for me Star Frontiers has a place in MY gaming history, but to be honest, there are other games out there that will do and have anything that Star Frontiers is.
I would be very interested in that. Savage Worlds feels like it would be a good game system to replace the original one.
Quote from: Greg Bruni on May 01, 2023, 10:31:18 AM
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021103/star-frontiers-gm-guide-savage-heroes (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/26021103/star-frontiers-gm-guide-savage-heroes)
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/3323081/crash-on-volturnus-savage-heroes (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/3323081/crash-on-volturnus-savage-heroes)
Nice! I love Savage Worlds. I will check this out
Love this game! I'm running an online Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn game, mostly one- and two-shots for now, on occasional Saturdays or Sunday afternoons (Eastern time, USA). We use Foundry VTT (free for players) and Discord for audio.
If anyone's interested in joining, let me know, we have room for more!
bump!
I have the original playtest box still.
Star Frontiers is a pretty good RPG and plays fairly smoothly.
Combat can though be ridiculously unforgiving. A laser can take down someone in a few blasts when sliders are set to max.
The ship building system was not bad really and got the job done within the parameters. No artificial gravity!
What it sorely needed was a solar system and planet gen system. There was a effort made in Aries Magazine. But I used the solar system gen from Universe as that is still one of the most robust ever come across.
Zebulons Guide they tried to pass off as part of SF. But it is really its own thing.
I have a great deal of nostalgia for Star Frontiers as it was one of the first three RPGs I played (Basic D&D and Marvel Superheroes being the other two). But I couldn't tell you anything about it from memory, aside from I liked the art and it's definitely a space adventure game with alien options.
It's a fun game. Make sure you use Alpha Dawn and Knighhawks (the starship expansion) but avoid their later Zebulon's Guide who basically rewrote the game and made it unplayable. My mostly-AD&D 1e group played it for a while in the mid- to late-eighties.
Yeah I have Zebulons guide somewhere and its just, blah.
Standard TSR Loraine era push to fill in every blank space with something.
Unwanted psionics system that just makes you go, wha?
and so on.