The players are the members of a football/cricket/rugby/baseball/American football/ team. Or they're professional boxers or tennis players. Or Olympic hopefuls.

Why aren't there any games that let you do this? Or, are there, but I just don't know about them?

I think the biggest issue is that many gamers (me included), want to play more setting impactful games--for good or ill, we want to play a game about making some sort of difference in the world. That tends to lead to more action adventure style gaming; or to semi political campaigns, depending on the people. Most people I've gamed with would get bored in a sports game.

Especially a team sports game where an individual player, is not so much the focus. It might work better, honestly as a semi-miniature (or "counter" game) where play of the game on the field is control over your player and key people (at least for group sports), throw in the role-playing when needed--but how much dialogue is there IN the game itself?

Then you can cut to the more "RP" centered aspects of play for personal lives, romances and scandels. I think actually splitting things up  into two disctinct game play forms would work better over all. It keep people interested, able to impact the game, but not sitting there twiddling there thumbs when they didn't have the ball/token/etc.

There is nothing wrong with roleplaying such a setting, but if you aren't splitting the "game within the game" aspects off--any generic system could do for the action on the field.

Many traditional games could handle fencing, or kendo, or even karate or wrestling--in fact I know of one or two wrestling games that were put out.

I think though the biggest hurdle, is that its a VERY limited interest, in a hobby that is already very narrow of focus.

Plus isn't fantasy football already sort of an RPG?  With stats beyond your control?

Streetfighter the RPG had players has members of a traveling group of professional fighters who went from competition to competition, and had various adventures in between.  Awesome game.

X-Crawl is basically D&D except the dungeons are artificial, there are cameras, and it's all on live TV.  The players are essentially athletes who compete in various for cash and prizes.

GURPS: Autoduel is the role-playing extension of Car Wars, and allows players to play professional derby racers or racing teams (Go Speed Racer! Go!) who compete on various circuits, amongst the various options.

Blood Bowl is a fantasy football game without an actual role-playing component, but it has characters, character advancement, and rough combat system that could be fleshed out.

Quote from: Silverlion;244596Then you can cut to the more "RP" centered aspects of play for personal lives, romances and scandels. I think actually splitting things up  into two disctinct game play forms would work better over all. It keep people interested, able to impact the game, but not sitting there twiddling there thumbs when they didn't have the ball/token/etc.

That's what I was thinking. You could have a ruleset for the game bit and the rest role-played out. Glamorous girlfriends, fallings-out with coaches, clubs going bankrupt, etc. etc.

There is also a middle ground with either highly ritualized war or where sports are of direct political significance.  In the former, you could have a situation with lots of small powers so each wants to avoid excessive casualties - if you win a battle with 40% losses, you're prone to invasion.  In the latter, you could have a treaty where the results of a contest determine something, like whoever has the most medals gets a seat on the UN security council (or some fantasy equivalent).  If games were of national importance, you could expect tons of bribes, spies, and dirty tricks.

You could probably adapt some aspects of Clash's rules from In Harm's Way and others.  It has rules for troupe play to run a unit or crew that could be adapted to a team.

Quote from: noisms;244611That's what I was thinking. You could have a ruleset for the game bit and the rest role-played out. Glamorous girlfriends, fallings-out with coaches, clubs going bankrupt, etc. etc.

You could do this with Steal Away Jordan - secret lovers, evading a whipping from your slave master , plantations going under , etc, etc. Just kidding buddy

I'd suggest switching between two separate games like what was discussed (kinda off) in Koltar's boardgame thread. I'm thinking a soccer (for example) boardgame (players against the GM) and then switching to a rules lite rpg....maybe BESM or something. I mean sports stars are always doing stuff like having fights in clubs, evading the paparazzi etc, so you need something to handle that.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;244613You could do this with Steal Away Jordan - secret lovers, evading a whipping from your slave master , plantations going under , etc, etc. Just kidding buddy

I'd suggest switching between two separate games like what was discussed (kinda off) in Koltar's boardgame thread. I'm thinking a soccer (for example) boardgame (players against the GM) and then switching to a rules lite rpg....maybe BESM or something. I mean sports stars are always doing stuff like having fights in clubs, evading the paparazzi etc, so you need something to handle that.

Steal Away Jordan - Now there's an idea! Or maybe Sorcerer....

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking of. You could even use something like Subbuteo (not sure if they have that in your part of the world) for the football (sorry...'soccer') matches themselves.

Risus might be best for the off-pitch stuff. You could have:

Christiano Ronaldo:

Utter Poser: 4
Blinding White Teeth: 3
Fake Tan: 2
Whining Spoiled Brat: 1

Or something like that.

Very nice....but if it's a football campaign you got to stat up the WAGs....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: noisms;244594The players are the members of a football/cricket/rugby/baseball/American football/ team. Or they're professional boxers or tennis players. Or Olympic hopefuls.

Why aren't there any games that let you do this? Or, are there, but I just don't know about them?

There are.  Contenders, for instance, is a game that is narrowly focussed on playing professional boxers.

And then, games that are built to explore the emotional issues of an ensemble cast will work well for the classic structure of a sports-manga:  The personal issues of the people on the team get worked out on the pitch ... first made clear in practices and locker-room conversations, then brought to a head in the episode's game against some appropriate opposition.

Primetime Adventures would work well for this.  I've personally run several episodes of sports stories in testing out Misery Bubblegum.

In general:  What folks say up above is true ... sports are recreation.  If you want your games to be about stuff that is objectively important (save the world, save your lives, etc., etc.) then sports are unlikely to provide that.  But sports are intensely subjectively important ... it's not really life and death, but you'd be hard pressed to tell that by the sweat and effort on the field.  So if what's important to you is that you have something that's important to the PCs, to drive them to surpass their limits, then sports is a great venue.  I think that's why, generally, it's a better setting for systems that focus on character internals than upon the externals of the world.  Hope that makes sense.

Quote from: David R;244625Very nice....but if it's a football campaign you got to stat up the WAGs....

Regards,
David R

Cheryl Cole

Absolute Stunner: 4
Really Very Attractive Indeed: 3
Gorgeous: 2
X-Factor Judge: 1

How's that?

Quote from: Nicephorus;244612You could probably adapt some aspects of Clash's rules from In Harm's Way and others.  It has rules for troupe play to run a unit or crew that could be adapted to a team.

Don't think I haven't thought of this. There's an IHW: Tools of Ignorance* game floating around in my brain that will some day come out - I have a lot of ideas for this, stuff like collecting stats in play and a gradual shift in playing from lifetime stats to current stats as the year progresses - in other words the year starts entirely based on what your character did before. As the season wears on, though, it becomes more and more based on what you are doing this year. I also have some neat ideas on abstracting individual games to one or two nexus points that you actually play out.

One of these days!

-clash

*The Tools of Ignorance is the mocking name given to the catcher's gear - chest and shin pads, mask, helmet, and glove. The term is mocking because usually the catcher is the smartest guy on the team, but you'd have to be an idiot to choose to have some whacko throw baseballs at you at 95 mph.

Tony already mentioned the one that immediately sprang to mind for me: Contenders. The pain, sweat and hope of boxers. To be honest, I was unconvinced at first as I have no interest in boxing at all. Yet, I played it and had an amazing time. It helps to create great stories about the lives of people and the boxing match mechanics are smooth, elegant, tense and fun. It makes the sporting part central to the game, but also serves to give you the stuff needed to create the stories about what goes on outside of the sporting arena.

In a more light-hearted vein, Joe also did Piledrivers & Powerbombs, a game of professional wrestling. Much sillier than Contenders, it's a smart game. Again, I have zero interesting in wrestling (perhaps less so than boxing) but really enjoy the overblown nonsense of P&P, with all the grudges, feuds, heels and faces.

So, that's two sporting games that really do hit the mark. Contenders has also caused a rash of variants for other activities, such as the more obvious gladiatorial combat and duelling, to the less obvious such as amateur bowling (in the style of The Big Lebowski) and competitive eating (strange, but true).

Cheers
Malcolm

Quote from: Malcolm Craig;244651In a more light-hearted vein, Joe also did Piledrivers & Powerbombs, a game of professional wrestling.

And there's also Kayfabe, in the wrestling vein.

If you like your D20, there is Know Your Role! - another wrestling rpg.

Quote from: noisms;244594The players are the members of a football/cricket/rugby/baseball/American football/ team. Or they're professional boxers or tennis players. Or Olympic hopefuls.

Why aren't there any games that let you do this? Or, are there, but I just don't know about them?

Well, anyone can create a fantasy sports RPG, Folks just haven't done it on account of all the controversy. Plenty of companies have signed licensing agreements with major sports franchises to create games. Among these, EA Sports, and X-box live. You can create any game you want, but if you want to use the official logos, and team colors, and images of the players, you need a license. From the team, or whomever they choose to represent them.

There are over 29,000,000 active players of fantasy sports in the U.S. today according to the Fantasy Sports Trade Association. Fantasy Football alone easily outstrips the largest of the RPG companies by a margin of five in terms of players, revenues, and profits, with the average fantasy football fan (there are over 15,000,000 of them, spending $150 a year to support his passions

There's an Intellectual Property Issues with actual National or International Teams here in the U.S. There are numerous court cases in progress, or pending, right now.

Up to now The Professional Players Association has unsuccessfully defended it's turf, and actually the NFL created their own pay-for-play fantasy football league just in the last few years, after they figured out there was some money in that.

But late last year, the Baseball guys lost out, and lost out in the 8th U.S. circuit court of appeals last year as well, and the supreme court refused to hear yet another appeal, so the ruling stands. Anyone can use any stats they come up with, to make a game.

Tom Brady sued Yahoo in 2006 over fantasy football. I think he won, because the defendants used his image without permission.

However just this Friday, some new big guns, CBS Interactive, of all companies, joined into this dispute, refusing to pay its licensing fees for pro football statistics and things are looking interesting, to say the least.

Unfortunately the RPG industry is pretty much at the bottom of the list, when it comes to licensees, just in terms of the cash they can offer for a license.

Check this out, eh? CBS files suit against Players Association, Sep 5, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jnbXJba6wk9gsO1cvud9aCVnRTJwD930O8DO2

In 2006 Tom Brady Sued Yahoo over Fantasy Football
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1207061brady1.html

NFL Fantasy Football League
http://www.nfl.com/fantasy

Wikipedia Fantasy Sports Entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_sport