Quote from: Omega;803802

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

That is an awesome poster

Quote from: flyerfan1991;803856That's part of the reason why I suggested it was older than WW2.

A lot of people in the thread are arguing from personal experience which isn't the best of guides for what is out in the broader public. Perhaps my memory is better for some reason or maybe I've seen or heard a more extensive range of entertainment* than a lot of folks on the thread. I just find it odd when people seem totally unaware given that those sources were once very common, very popular, and within living memory.

However, to be honest, when I learned the British show that aired as "MI-5" had been entitled "Spooks" in the UK, I thought it was probably renamed because they wanted to reinfoce the Agency designation of MI-5 since most Americans might not recognize the old UK agency designations - other than MI-6 from the Bond films. It was only later that the racial slur connection occurred to me.

TV Tropes claims the reason for the new title was to avoid the use of the old slur. While that is possible, there isn't a source or citation in TV Tropes for the claim so it may just be an assumption on the writer's part - and it might be wrong. (Shocking as I know it must be to everyone that TV Tropes might not be a reputable source of useful information. :rolleyes:)




* "All in the Family" was extremely popular in the 1970s, "Back to the Future" was extremely popular in the 1980s and after. And Grand Torino only was in the cinemas in 2008. I suppose I've also watched (and recall) a lot of B-movies from the 1930s-1950s and I recall "spook" showing up as a racial slur in some of the old films that included painfully stereotypical black characters - especially anything with ghosts, haunted houses, or spooky mysteries. I suspect "spook" was used as less offensive and because the audience probably found the double meaning funny. I think I may have heard it in some old Jack Benny radio show as well.

Quote from: Omega;803802

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

Huh. I had no idea that basketball player was German.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;803927Huh. I had no idea that basketball player was German.

Obviously he's from the Black Forest.

I'm fifty so this might be my age talking, but I do find 'spook' offensive when applied to a person's ethnicity. As a term for a covert ops agent or even spirit I have no issue with it. Using it to refer to a black agent *might* be an issue to some folks. It could be viewed as darkly humorous sarcasm.

Quote from: Tetsubo;804149I'm fifty so this might be my age talking, but I do find 'spook' offensive when applied to a person's ethnicity. As a term for a covert ops agent or even spirit I have no issue with it. Using it to refer to a black agent *might* be an issue to some folks. It could be viewed as darkly humorous sarcasm.

The Spook archetype model will now show an Asian character. Should be safe, right?  

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;804177The Spook archetype model will now show an Asian character. Should be safe, right?  

Better make sure and use a Transgendered Maori Taoist.

"Spook" does not sound like a very nasty slur to me. But then, I just got back from visiting rural Texas.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;804491"Spook" does not sound like a very nasty slur to me. But then, I just got back from visiting rural Texas.

I would suggest not using it in casual conversation around black people.

Quote from: Tetsubo;804492I would suggest not using it in casual conversation around black people.

I only met a couple. As far as I could tell segregation was still in place.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;804554I only met a couple. As far as I could tell segregation was still in place.

It felt that way in parts of Georgia as well. Lots of old wounds that are nowhere near healed.

Quote from: Omega;803802

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

I can kinda see it, actually.

But a lot of WW2 propaganda posters was really good on a technical level! It was persuasive, it did it's job well. I can't see why people wouldn't want to allude to it today.

Quote from: Ladybird;804558I can kinda see it, actually.

Me too... it seems too close not to be intentional... not that the intent was racist... and maybe not expecting anyone to make the connection to the original powerful image it used as a template.

Quote from: Ladybird;804558But a lot of WW2 propaganda posters was really good on a technical level!

Nitsy point: It's a WWI poster. A number of WWI posters were more visceral in theme than WWII posters.

Quote from: Bren;804561Nitsy point: It's a WWI poster. A number of WWI posters were more visceral in theme than WWII posters.

Fair enough. I'm British, WW2 tends to come up on a daily basis...