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"Spook" - still too racist?

Started by Mark Plemmons, December 09, 2014, 10:55:33 AM

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VectorSigma

#30
December 09, 2014, 08:25:46 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;803591That is because technically agents are people embeded in the other camp. So if you turn the Soviet Defense Minsiter he is now an agent. The people running the agents are Intelligence Officers.

I can't speak for our UK brethren, but in US parlance this 'turned' minister is an 'asset'.  'Agent' is for law enforcement personnel (FBI), and maybe for some CIA operations folks, but not case officers or intel analysts.

Jibba's quite right about 'agent' having an 'other side' connotation...as in "agent of a foreign power" etc.
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Just Another Snake Cult

#31
December 09, 2014, 09:20:57 PM
I've spent the day reading articles and opinions on the newly-released CIA torture report. The term "Spook" was used as slang for a covert operative in a lot of the mainstream media commentary.

I, personally, haven't heard it used as a racial slur since the very early eighties. And even then it was by much older persons. Not to trivialize racism, but as a racial slur it's sorta...quaint, like something your senile grandpa might say.
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tuypo1

#32
December 09, 2014, 09:21:34 PM
as many people have said i have never heard it used as a slur although ive never seen it used for spys either

Quote from: Simlasa;803547THAT one I've heard used a lot more and by people I know. The first time I heard it was when a jerk kid in High School shouted it at a visiting school district official. He caught hella trouble for it too.

oh god i would have loved to see the trouble he got in for that
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Werekoala

#33
December 09, 2014, 09:29:22 PM
The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.
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Bren

#34
December 09, 2014, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: Werekoala;803600Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.
So you are what 70 or 80 then?
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jibbajibba

#35
December 09, 2014, 10:00:15 PM
Quote from: VectorSigma;803594I can't speak for our UK brethren, but in US parlance this 'turned' minister is an 'asset'.  'Agent' is for law enforcement personnel (FBI), and maybe for some CIA operations folks, but not case officers or intel analysts.

Jibba's quite right about 'agent' having an 'other side' connotation...as in "agent of a foreign power" etc.

the various nuances explained - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_officer

and this from five's web site - https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/about-us/faqs-about-mi5/how-can-i-become-an-mi5-agent.html
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BarefootGaijin

#36
December 09, 2014, 10:44:58 PM
Quote from: Werekoala;803600The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.

I'm with this guy, and I'm just reaching 40. A spook is either another word for a ghost or a secret agent of some kind.
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Werekoala

#37
December 10, 2014, 01:38:34 AM
Quote from: Bren;803604So you are what 70 or 80 then?

Well, FROM the 70's and 80's, but yeah.
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Ravenswing

#38
December 10, 2014, 02:54:31 AM
Oh for pity's sake.  There are folks out there who'd consider "black" to be objectionable -- they're People Of Color, you dumb insensitive bastards, you.

I don't propose to readjust my language every decade because a noisy faction who needs something new to wail about has decided that the previous (purportedly) neutral term they bullied society into using is no longer acceptable.  Nor do I consider every slur, real or imagined, that has ever been flung at anyone permanently off-limits.
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Mark Plemmons

#39
December 10, 2014, 08:23:53 AM
Quote from: Omega;803569I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

Could be. I had heard, anecdotally and years ago, that it was changed because of the old slur. That stuck in my mind and was part of why I asked the question.
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Mark Plemmons

#40
December 10, 2014, 08:38:57 AM
Quote from: Werekoala;803600The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

I think it just says volumes about what a well-mannered, considerate guy I am. :)

Seriously though, I'm specifically trying to include a stronger mix of character models of different ages, sexes, and races in this product than I had in the core rulebook (even though I tried, as described on my blog). It's realistic, appropriate for the setting, and appeals to a wider range of potential customers, so there's no reason not to. I didn't want to do that and then also throw in a racial slur. :o
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Bren

#41
December 10, 2014, 08:40:28 AM
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;803666Could be. I had heard, anecdotally and years ago, that it was changed because of the old slur. That stuck in my mind and was part of why I asked the question.
Seems like you ended up with a range of opinions as a sample.

Quote from: Ravenswing;803656Oh for pity's sake.  There are folks out there who'd consider "black" to be objectionable -- they're People Of Color, you dumb insensitive bastards, you.
That's just typical of a Blue. Always looking to be offended. :rolleyes:
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soltakss

#42
December 10, 2014, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: Werekoala;803648Well, FROM the 70's and 80's, but yeah.

Earlier generation, indeed. Kids these days, claiming to be older than they are! :)
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tenbones

#43
December 10, 2014, 01:50:55 PM
Here's a shocking idea: why not let the context of your work speak for itself instead of avoiding what is obvious for the benefit of the myopic dolts that are looking for a fight regardless of what you do?

Omega

#44
December 10, 2014, 07:28:23 PM
Well its not as bad as the fellow last year who wanted to remove Cougar from his book for fear someone would think it was the... ahem... other meaning... :o

That was bemusing. Its one in a long list of these conversations when it comes to game design and writing.

I swear to god one of these days Im going to get fed up and put a vibrator in one of my games!

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