"Spook" - still too racist?

Mark Plemmons · December 09, 2014, 02:58:53 PM

Thanks very much for all the opinions! I was inclined to use Spook, but I needed some help rolling my sanity check.

I'll use the black model elsewhere, even if it's in a later book, though definitely not as the Spook.

Lynn · December 09, 2014, 03:00:43 PM

Certainly I have heard it used as a racial term.

I don't think a lot of younger people know the word pickaninny either.

I wouldn't use it, even though it seems to be sufficiently unknown in the UK, assuming that with the BBC's show Spooks.

Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

Simlasa · December 09, 2014, 03:12:57 PM

Quote from: Lynn;803545Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

One of the Last Apprentice books had its name changed as well... from 'Spook's Apprentice' to 'Revenge of the Witch'.
Still seems like not a problem to me as long as you avoid bringing up the lesser known connotation.

Quote from: Lynn;803545I don't think a lot of younger people know the word pickaninny either.

THAT one I've heard used a lot more and by people I know. The first time I heard it was when a jerk kid in High School shouted it at a visiting school district official. He caught hella trouble for it too.

Bren · December 09, 2014, 03:18:04 PM

Quote from: Lynn;803545Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

In addition to the DVDs, BBC America aired the show under the name "MI-5" as does Public Television in the US. It originally aired in Canada under the name "MI-5" but Wiki says that has since changed back to the original UK title of "Spooks."

Saplatt · December 09, 2014, 03:29:29 PM

I think of it far more as a racial slur than as any kind of spy reference. But I grew up watching Merry Melodies cartoons, so maybe it really is a generational thing.

Patrick · December 09, 2014, 04:13:33 PM

I know they used "spook" a lot on the USA channel's Burn Notice spy show. I would think you would be fine.

Sacrosanct · December 09, 2014, 04:20:05 PM

Unless you specifically link the term to black people, no one in their right mind would think you're using the term racially. Especially if you're using it in the context of spies.

Heck, there was a movie called "Spooks' as recently at 2011. What was it about? Spies of course.

Mr. Kent · December 09, 2014, 05:44:18 PM

Huh--never heard it as a slur before!

Omega · December 09, 2014, 05:57:55 PM

I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

danskmacabre · December 09, 2014, 06:02:39 PM

I have heard the term used in a racist context many years ago in the 70s (amongst many other terms like that).
By my parents actually.
They were pretty racist and probably still are really, they just keep their bigoted opinions to themselves these days.

Bren · December 09, 2014, 06:33:26 PM

Quote from: Omega;803569I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

I think the opposite is true. My recollection is that spook was initially applied to American or CIA agents. I believe that the makers of Spooks/MI-5 used the Amercian name intentionally since the show included a level of on screen violence that one expects from Hollywood shows.

All three meanings are in one list of definitions here but under British Definitions the racial slur is missing and the spy meaning is noted as US & Canadian.

Similarly the Oxford Dictionaries lists

chiefly North American A spy: ‘a CIA spook’

Reading through the links, the racial slur appears to have originated during WWII so it likely predates the meaning as a spy. But probably not by very long.

Skyrock · December 09, 2014, 06:55:24 PM

William Gibson got away naming a novel "Spook Country" YEARS ago, without any outrage. Just go ahead and do it.

JeremyR · December 09, 2014, 07:07:09 PM

I dunno, it's still rarely used, enough that I avoid using the term.

Unlike say, "Celestial", which was apparently was something of a slur used for Chinese people (though probably the nicest racial slur ever...)

Ronin · December 09, 2014, 07:14:57 PM

Well I've definitely heard it used as a slur, in recent times. But, yes in general it does pertain more to spies. If I remember correctly the SIS does not like the term agent, and uses the term Intelligence Officer. Always liked that. But I am a John LeCarre fan so YMMV:)

jibbajibba · December 09, 2014, 08:17:13 PM

Quote from: Ronin;803580Well I've definitely heard it used as a slur, in recent times. But, yes in general it does pertain more to spies. If I remember correctly the SIS does not like the term agent, and uses the term Intelligence Officer. Always liked that. But I am a John LeCarre fan so YMMV:)

That is because technically agents are people embeded in the other camp. So if you turn the Soviet Defense Minsiter he is now an agent. The people running the agents are Intelligence Officers.