TheRPGSite

I'm writing up an 'Agent' archetype for my next game supplement, so players can take on the role of a government spy (where the government is mostly privatized and under the thumb of the mega-corps). I'd prefer to call the archetype 'Spook' - which is a colloquialism for a spy - but it's also an old derogatory slur for a black person.

I know there are plenty of forum-goers here from all over the US and world. Has anyone ever heard 'spook' spoken as a slur? Has that gone out of fashion as derogatory?

(Side note: in its current rough layout, the supplement has several black character models. I also have a good black model for the 'Agent' but I wouldn't feel comfortable using his image if I do go with 'Spook' for the archetype name.)

Thoughts?

When I hear that word, the image of a CIA operative comes to mind.

Too soon to call a spy a spook? No.  Lot of people won't even know about the slur these days.

Call a black spy a spook, the SJW's will be coming for you.

If you present it in the context of a spy, I doubt hardly anyone would bat an eye and you'd be good.  Have a picture of a black person next to it?  Then you're asking for trouble.

Never heard of it used as a slur. Shit, we had a long-running series here called Spooks about the intelligence service.

"Spooks" was the name of a British TV series about agents from MI-5. (There is also an upcoming British movie with the same name.) When the show was aired in the US it was retitled MI-5. Spook is not a slur I've heard since the early 1970s. It seems to have gone out of fashion. On the other hand I've heard spook = spy more recently and more frequently, to the point that avoidance of the slur as the reason for the retitling of the show hadn't occurred to me until you raised your question. Given the number of other colloquialisms for spy and the chance for confusion or offense, I'd go with a different name in the US.

Only time I've heard it as a racial slur was in Gran Torino. I'd say it's perfectly safe to use in an espionage context.

Without further context the word alone makes me think of ghosts... 'Spooks Run Wild'... and spies.
Even as slang for black people it never seemed all that derogatory compared to other terms. The old Eerie comix had a supernatural black hero called The Spook who I remember as being pretty cool.

I've never heard that used as a derrogatory racist term. Is it regional maybe? Not that I'm up on all the latest KKK slang.

Quote from: Premier;803503Only time I've heard it as a racial slur was in Gran Torino. I'd say it's perfectly safe to use in an espionage context.

I was about to mention this! The kid Eastwood used it on had no idea what Eastwood was saying. Like "Why is this old geezer calling me a spy?" I'd say it's perfectly safe to use when referring to a spy.

-clash

Most folks, other than us graybeards, will not know of that usage, so it should be fine (albeit archaic in either form).

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;803492I'd prefer to call the archetype 'Spook' - which is a colloquialism for a spy - but it's also an old derogatory slur for a black person.

I never knew that.

I think you'll be fine.

Quote from: cranebump;803515Most folks, other than us graybeards, will not know of that usage, so it should be fine (albeit archaic in either form).

Kids these days, they don't know nothin. ;)


Hey you damn kids, get off my lawn!

I don't think I've ever heard/read the term outside of movies and books... I can't recall anyone in real life using it. It doesn't come up in the old Richard Prior/Chevy Chase slur-off.

Yep, it is not used as a racial slur anymore. And even when it was in use it was shortlived far as I can tell.

Now it is used very commonly to refer to Spys and government agents. Government Spook gets used ALOT in all sorts of media.

And of course used to refer to ghosts. It is a Dutch word for Ghost I am told. Or derived from. Been a long time.

Thanks very much for all the opinions! I was inclined to use Spook, but I needed some help rolling my sanity check.  :)

I'll use the black model elsewhere, even if it's in a later book, though definitely not as the Spook.

Certainly I have heard it used as a racial term.

I don't think a lot of younger people know the word pickaninny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickaninny) either.

I wouldn't use it, even though it seems to be sufficiently unknown in the UK, assuming that with the BBC's show Spooks.

Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

Quote from: Lynn;803545Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

One of the Last Apprentice books had its name changed as well... from 'Spook's Apprentice' to 'Revenge of the Witch'.
Still seems like not a problem to me as long as you avoid bringing up the lesser known connotation.

Quote from: Lynn;803545I don't think a lot of younger people know the word pickaninny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickaninny) either.

THAT one I've heard used a lot more and by people I know. The first time I heard it was when a jerk kid in High School shouted it at a visiting school district official. He caught hella trouble for it too.

Quote from: Lynn;803545Something to consider though - the show Spooks is not called that in the US. When the show was made available on disk, it was renamed MI-5.

In addition to the DVDs, BBC America aired the show under the name "MI-5" as does Public Television in the US. It originally aired in Canada under the name "MI-5" but Wiki says that has since changed back to the original UK title of "Spooks."

I think of it far more as a racial slur than as any kind of spy reference. But I grew up watching Merry Melodies cartoons, so maybe it really is a generational thing.

I know they used "spook" a lot on the USA channel's Burn Notice spy show.  I would think you would be fine.

Unless you specifically link the term to black people, no one in their right mind would think you're using the term racially.  Especially if you're using it in the context of spies.

Heck, there was a movie called "Spooks' as recently at 2011.  What was it about?  Spies of course.

Huh--never heard it as a slur before!

I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

I have heard the term used in a racist context many years ago in the 70s (amongst many other terms like that).
By my parents actually.
They were pretty racist and probably still are really, they just keep their bigoted opinions to themselves these days.

Quote from: Omega;803569I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

I think the opposite is true. My recollection is that spook was initially applied to American or CIA agents. I believe that the makers of Spooks/MI-5 used the Amercian name intentionally since the show included a level of on screen violence that one expects from Hollywood shows.

All three meanings are in one list of definitions here (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spook) but under British Definitions the racial slur is missing and the spy meaning is noted as US & Canadian.

Similarly the Oxford Dictionaries  (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/spook)lists

   chiefly North American A spy: ‘a CIA spook’

Reading through the links, the racial slur appears to have originated during WWII so it likely predates the meaning as a spy. But probably not by very long.

William Gibson got away naming a novel "Spook Country" YEARS ago, without any outrage. Just go ahead and do it.

I dunno, it's still rarely used, enough that I avoid using the term.

Unlike say, "Celestial", which was apparently was something of a slur used for Chinese people (though probably the nicest racial slur ever...)

Well I've definitely heard it used as a slur, in recent times. But, yes in general it does pertain more to spies. If I remember correctly the SIS does not like the term agent, and uses the term Intelligence Officer. Always liked that. But I am a John LeCarre fan so YMMV:)

Quote from: Ronin;803580Well I've definitely heard it used as a slur, in recent times. But, yes in general it does pertain more to spies. If I remember correctly the SIS does not like the term agent, and uses the term Intelligence Officer. Always liked that. But I am a John LeCarre fan so YMMV:)

That is because technically agents are people embeded in the other camp. So if you turn the Soviet Defense Minsiter he is now an agent. The people running the agents are Intelligence Officers.

Quote from: jibbajibba;803591That is because technically agents are people embeded in the other camp. So if you turn the Soviet Defense Minsiter he is now an agent. The people running the agents are Intelligence Officers.

I can't speak for our UK brethren, but in US parlance this 'turned' minister is an 'asset'.  'Agent' is for law enforcement personnel (FBI), and maybe for some CIA operations folks, but not case officers or intel analysts.

Jibba's quite right about 'agent' having an 'other side' connotation...as in "agent of a foreign power" etc.

I've spent the day reading articles and opinions on the newly-released CIA torture report. The term "Spook" was used as slang for a covert operative in a lot of the mainstream media commentary.

I, personally, haven't heard it used as a racial slur since the very early eighties. And even then it was by much older persons. Not to trivialize racism, but as a racial slur it's sorta...quaint, like something your senile grandpa might say.

as many people have said i have never heard it used as a slur although ive never seen it used for spys either

Quote from: Simlasa;803547THAT one I've heard used a lot more and by people I know. The first time I heard it was when a jerk kid in High School shouted it at a visiting school district official. He caught hella trouble for it too.

oh god i would have loved to see the trouble he got in for that

The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.

Quote from: Werekoala;803600Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.

So you are what 70 or 80 then?

Quote from: VectorSigma;803594I can't speak for our UK brethren, but in US parlance this 'turned' minister is an 'asset'.  'Agent' is for law enforcement personnel (FBI), and maybe for some CIA operations folks, but not case officers or intel analysts.

Jibba's quite right about 'agent' having an 'other side' connotation...as in "agent of a foreign power" etc.

the various nuances explained - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_officer

and this from five's web site - https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/about-us/faqs-about-mi5/how-can-i-become-an-mi5-agent.html

Quote from: Werekoala;803600The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

Seriously, I would NEVER worry about such a thing, but then I'm from an earlier generation, most likely.

I'm with this guy, and I'm just reaching 40. A spook (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=spook&searchmode=none) is either another word for a ghost or a secret agent of some kind.

Quote from: Bren;803604So you are what 70 or 80 then?

Well, FROM the 70's and 80's, but yeah.

Oh for pity's sake.  There are folks out there who'd consider "black" to be objectionable -- they're People Of Color, you dumb insensitive bastards, you.

I don't propose to readjust my language every decade because a noisy faction who needs something new to wail about has decided that the previous (purportedly) neutral term they bullied society into using is no longer acceptable.  Nor do I consider every slur, real or imagined, that has ever been flung at anyone permanently off-limits.

Quote from: Omega;803569I think one of the reasons they changed Spooks to MI5 was because the US suits thought Americans would mistake the series for something about ghosts.

Could be. I had heard, anecdotally and years ago, that it was changed because of the old slur. That stuck in my mind and was part of why I asked the question.

Quote from: Werekoala;803600The fact that you even have to stop and ask the question says volumes about the direction our society is taking, and who is "in charge" of correct thought.

I think it just says volumes about what a well-mannered, considerate guy I am. :)

Seriously though, I'm specifically trying to include a stronger mix of character models of different ages, sexes, and races in this product than I had in the core rulebook (even though I tried, as described on my blog (http://plebotamus.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/sex-and-race-in-corporia/)). It's realistic, appropriate for the setting, and appeals to a wider range of potential customers, so there's no reason not to. I didn't want to do that and then also throw in a racial slur. :o

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;803666Could be. I had heard, anecdotally and years ago, that it was changed because of the old slur. That stuck in my mind and was part of why I asked the question.

Seems like you ended up with a range of opinions as a sample.

Quote from: Ravenswing;803656Oh for pity's sake.  There are folks out there who'd consider "black" to be objectionable -- they're People Of Color, you dumb insensitive bastards, you.

That's just typical of a Blue. Always looking to be offended. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Werekoala;803648Well, FROM the 70's and 80's, but yeah.

Earlier generation, indeed. Kids these days, claiming to be older than they are! :)

Here's a shocking idea: why not let the context of your work speak for itself instead of avoiding what is obvious for the benefit of the myopic dolts that are looking for a fight regardless of what you do?

Well its not as bad as the fellow last year who wanted to remove Cougar from his book for fear someone would think it was the... ahem... other meaning... :o

That was bemusing. Its one in a long list of these conversations when it comes to game design and writing.

I swear to god one of these days Im going to get fed up and put a vibrator in one of my games!

Spoiler

(http://www.mariadicroce.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/belt.jpg)

I'm approaching 40 myself, and have never heard that applied as a racial slur in my life. When I hear spook, I think of secret agents first, then maybe Scooby Doo second.

I think the only way you would hit trouble with calling a secret agent a spook in a game is if the game also used the blackploitation genre as a theme.

Canadian for reference. And I think in any number of movies and television, when someone was referred to as a spook, it was "agent".

People like (many here) who watch spy shows (and MI-5 is great if you haven't seen it)  and generally do not use terms like spook as a racial slur aren't going to be your problem.

But it is likely someone is going to latch onto it, and then we will have spookgate.

Using it as a reference to spies is perfectly acceptable and should not offend any reasonable person. You can't do much about what unreasonable people think.

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;803667I think it just says volumes about what a well-mannered, considerate guy I am. :)

Seriously though, I'm specifically trying to include a stronger mix of character models of different ages, sexes, and races in this product than I had in the core rulebook (even though I tried, as described on my blog (http://plebotamus.wordpress.com/2014/05/09/sex-and-race-in-corporia/)). It's realistic, appropriate for the setting, and appeals to a wider range of potential customers, so there's no reason not to. I didn't want to do that and then also throw in a racial slur. :o

It's a sentiment I can get behind. D&D 5e made a genuine effort to do the same, and for some reason my world didn't end. If it helped others enjoy the game better then the more, the merrier.

As for the word "Spook", your context is clear so I wouldn't sweat it, unless you could think of/find a really badass replacement.

Quote from: Lynn;803772People like (many here) who watch spy shows (and MI-5 is great if you haven't seen it)  and generally do not use terms like spook as a racial slur aren't going to be your problem.

But it is likely someone is going to latch onto it, and then we will have spookgate.

it will be interesting to see what the next -gate will be

The thread title had me rolling my eyes. Duh. How is that not racist?

Then I clicked on it and read the original post.

Duh. Why would you even think that is racist?

Calling spies and secret agents spooks? Not racist.

Calling black people spooks? Racist.

What concerns me is the worry that the two can be confused. Just the thread title alone gives the detractors of this site ammunition.

It wasn't until only very recently that I learned spook was a racial slur.  Till then, I just knew it as slang for a spy/government goon.  To be honest, I and everyone I know can't see the term as anything other than shorthand for spy so I think you should be fine.

Quote from: Chainsaw;803776Using it as a reference to spies is perfectly acceptable and should not offend any reasonable person. You can't do much about what unreasonable people think.

Exactly. You cannot crazyproof a game, book, whatever.

Basically here we have a game about spies. Spies are called spooks commonly now.  Ghosts are called spooks. The racial slur is rarely used and if someone picks up a spy game and screams racist! Then theres nothing you can do about that sort of stupid. They could just as easily throw a fit and claim you are selling pro-torture propaganda. You CANNOT win. EVER.

(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lebron-james-destroy-this-mad-brute-350_7118.jpg)

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

Quote from: everloss;803780The thread title had me rolling my eyes. Duh. How is that not racist?

Then I clicked on it and read the original post.

Duh. Why would you even think that is racist?

Calling spies and secret agents spooks? Not racist.

Calling black people spooks? Racist.

What concerns me is the worry that the two can be confused. Just the thread title alone gives the detractors of this site ammunition.

What do you call black spies (technically black intelligence officers as spy actually = agent=asset :D )

well that was part of the inital problem the spy was going to be a black guy

Quote from: tuypo1;803816well that was part of the inital problem the spy was going to be a black guy

That might invite controversy that would be harder to dismiss, regardless of your intent.

The two currently used definitions of "spook" are "ghost" and "operative/spy".

That said, the older, racist definition of spook is something you'd only hear in the elderly these days, as it evokes the Birth of a Nation/DW Griffiths era.

Even the New York Times uses the term "spook" for a spy or an operative, so I think you're okay in its usage.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;803840That said, the older, racist definition of spook is something you'd only hear in the elderly these days, as it evokes the Birth of a Nation/DW Griffiths era.

I'd be interested if you have a source for a early 1900s usage. Everything I've read or heard dates the first occurrence of spook as a racial term to WWII/1940s.

It was fairly common in the 1940s and 1950s as a jive term for blacks and (probably later) as a racial slur. In addition to Grand Torino it is used in Back to the Future. Also used for its shock value on US prime time television in the 1970s on All in the Family (http://mentalfloss.com/article/18866/early-press-clippings-archie-bunker-paternity-leave-tim-russert).

Quote from: January 12, 1971Is it funny, for example, to have the pot-bellied, church-going, cigar-smoking son of Middle America, Archie Bunker, the hero of All in the Family, fill the screen with such epithets as "spic" and "spade" and "hebe" and "yid" and "polack"? Is it funny for him to refer to his son-in-law as "the laziest white man I ever seen"? Or to look at a televised football game and yell, "Look at that spook run...it's in his blood"?

It's not a big deal to use spooks for spies in a modern setting. The racial slur meaning would come up and be noticeable, even jarring, though possibly ironic, if the game was set in the 1940s or 1950s with an important NPC black spy since spook was used both as a racial slur and as a term for spy back then while black spies were likely pretty rare. Since the OP mentioned wanting to include pictures of a black spy in the game, I understand why he asked the question even in a modern setting.

Quote from: Chainsaw;803776Using it as a reference to spies is perfectly acceptable and should not offend any reasonable person. You can't do much about what unreasonable people think.

Agreed. (bold emphasis mine)

Quote from: Bren;803849I'd be interested if you have a source for a early 1900s usage. Everything I've read or heard dates the first occurrence of spook as a racial term to WWII/1940s.

It was fairly common in the 1940s and 1950s as a jive term for blacks and (probably later) as a racial slur. In addition to Grand Torino it is used in Back to the Future. Also used for its shock value on US prime time television in the 1970s on All in the Family (http://mentalfloss.com/article/18866/early-press-clippings-archie-bunker-paternity-leave-tim-russert).


It's not a big deal to use spooks for spies in a modern setting. The racial slur meaning would come up and be noticeable, even jarring, though possibly ironic, if the game was set in the 1940s or 1950s with an important NPC black spy since spook was used both as a racial slur and as a term for spy back then while black spies were likely pretty rare. Since the OP mentioned wanting to include pictures of a black spy in the game, I understand why he asked the question even in a modern setting.

I don't have a reference for specifically the rise of the 20th Century KKK for the spook term; it just evokes a much older era than the 60s Civil Rights era.

According to etymology online, both the spy/operative and the racist version of "spook" originated in the WW2 era, which I found very interesting given that my relatives who used the term were already in their 40s during the WW2 era.  My (racist) relatives who fought in WW2 used other racist slang, not "spook".  That's part of the reason why I suggested it was older than WW2.

Quote from: Omega;803802(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lebron-james-destroy-this-mad-brute-350_7118.jpg)

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

That is an awesome poster

Quote from: flyerfan1991;803856That's part of the reason why I suggested it was older than WW2.

A lot of people in the thread are arguing from personal experience which isn't the best of guides for what is out in the broader public. Perhaps my memory is better for some reason or maybe I've seen or heard a more extensive range of entertainment* than a lot of folks on the thread. I just find it odd when people seem totally unaware given that those sources were once very common, very popular, and within living memory.

However, to be honest, when I learned the British show that aired as "MI-5" had been entitled "Spooks" in the UK, I thought it was probably renamed because they wanted to reinfoce the Agency designation of MI-5 since most Americans might not recognize the old UK agency designations - other than MI-6 from the Bond films. It was only later that the racial slur connection occurred to me.

TV Tropes claims the reason for the new title was to avoid the use of the old slur. While that is possible, there isn't a source or citation in TV Tropes for the claim so it may just be an assumption on the writer's part - and it might be wrong. (Shocking as I know it must be to everyone that TV Tropes might not be a reputable source of useful information. :rolleyes:)




* "All in the Family" was extremely popular in the 1970s, "Back to the Future" was extremely popular in the 1980s and after. And Grand Torino only was in the cinemas in 2008. I suppose I've also watched (and recall) a lot of B-movies from the 1930s-1950s and I recall "spook" showing up as a racial slur in some of the old films that included painfully stereotypical black characters - especially anything with ghosts, haunted houses, or spooky mysteries. I suspect "spook" was used as less offensive and because the audience probably found the double meaning funny. I think I may have heard it in some old Jack Benny radio show as well.

Quote from: Omega;803802(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lebron-james-destroy-this-mad-brute-350_7118.jpg)

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

Huh. I had no idea that basketball player was German.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;803927Huh. I had no idea that basketball player was German.

Obviously he's from the Black Forest.

I'm fifty so this might be my age talking, but I do find 'spook' offensive when applied to a person's ethnicity. As a term for a covert ops agent or even spirit I have no issue with it. Using it to refer to a black agent *might* be an issue to some folks. It could be viewed as darkly humorous sarcasm.

Quote from: Tetsubo;804149I'm fifty so this might be my age talking, but I do find 'spook' offensive when applied to a person's ethnicity. As a term for a covert ops agent or even spirit I have no issue with it. Using it to refer to a black agent *might* be an issue to some folks. It could be viewed as darkly humorous sarcasm.

The Spook archetype model will now show an Asian character. Should be safe, right?  :)

Quote from: Mark Plemmons;804177The Spook archetype model will now show an Asian character. Should be safe, right?  :)

Better make sure and use a Transgendered Maori Taoist. :D

"Spook" does not sound like a very nasty slur to me. But then, I just got back from visiting rural Texas.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;804491"Spook" does not sound like a very nasty slur to me. But then, I just got back from visiting rural Texas.

I would suggest not using it in casual conversation around black people.

Quote from: Tetsubo;804492I would suggest not using it in casual conversation around black people.

I only met a couple. As far as I could tell segregation was still in place.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;804554I only met a couple. As far as I could tell segregation was still in place.

It felt that way in parts of Georgia as well. Lots of old wounds that are nowhere near healed.

Quote from: Omega;803802(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lebron-james-destroy-this-mad-brute-350_7118.jpg)

Yes, someone claimed the Vogue cover was an allusion to the poster.

I can kinda see it, actually.

But a lot of WW2 propaganda posters was really good on a technical level! It was persuasive, it did it's job well. I can't see why people wouldn't want to allude to it today.

Quote from: Ladybird;804558I can kinda see it, actually.

Me too... it seems too close not to be intentional... not that the intent was racist... and maybe not expecting anyone to make the connection to the original powerful image it used as a template.

Quote from: Ladybird;804558But a lot of WW2 propaganda posters was really good on a technical level!

Nitsy point: It's a WWI poster. A number of WWI posters were more visceral in theme than WWII posters.

Quote from: Bren;804561Nitsy point: It's a WWI poster. A number of WWI posters were more visceral in theme than WWII posters.

Fair enough. I'm British, WW2 tends to come up on a daily basis...

Quote from: Ladybird;804565Fair enough. I'm British, WW2 tends to come up on a daily basis...

It was just a nit picky point. But I think you are right about WWII. That was one thing I noticed living there. WWII is even more central to your conciousness than it is here in the US. But the Poppies for Remembrance Day date back to Flander's Fields and WWI.

in Australia interest in the first world war is kept up quite a lot by our interest in the battles at Gallipoli (although some people for some reason think that was the second world war) its a bit of a shame really we focus so much on gallipoli you would think we have no other military history

I think it's silly to really worry about this.  "Spook" is a totally known and common piece of spy-jargon.  Only idiots with massive amounts of bad faith would have a problem with it in that context.

Quote from: Simlasa;804559Me too... it seems too close not to be intentional... not that the intent was racist... and maybe not expecting anyone to make the connection to the original powerful image it used as a template.

holy shit i just worked it out i have never been able to work out how they are similar but i think i worked out why.

i was focusing on the position of the woman which was nothing like the origional image but i just worked out its about the face (and of course the fact the guys black because somehow German=black)

Quote from: tuypo1;805269i was focusing on the position of the woman which was nothing like the origional image but i just worked out its about the face (and of course the fact the guys black because somehow German=black)

The woman's position is different, but the dress and color of dress seems pretty close. The man's stance and expression... his tones vs. hers.
I can't believe it's pure coincidence... but I see no harm in it.

Quote from: Simlasa;805274The woman's position is different, but the dress and color of dress seems pretty close. The man's stance and expression... his tones vs. hers.
I can't believe it's pure coincidence... but I see no harm in it.

Yep, just like the old TSR symbol was satanic because of the wizard head and the pattern of the stars. :banghead:

Quote from: Omega;805443Yep, just like the old TSR symbol was satanic because of the wizard head and the pattern of the stars. :banghead:

Whatever... bang away... I see what I see. It's not like I've got some SJW agenda, they just look similar, to me, and I kind of like how Ms. Leibovitz pulls from iconic images that way. It's something she's known for.

fair enough i still dont really see it but like you said it is not a problem if it is the inspiration really

If it is used in a game about spies or ghosts, anyone offended by it is deliberately looking for something to bitch about. And those types are never happy anyway, so eff 'em.

I'm sure there are a-holes upset about "dwarf" being used in fantasy games instead of "Little People (tm)(R)(patent pending)."

Quote from: RPGPundit;805265I think it's silly to really worry about this.  "Spook" is a totally known and common piece of spy-jargon. Only idiots with massive amounts of bad faith would have a problem with it in that context.

You just described 90% of the internet as we know it.

Regardless, there is a certain subsection of the online culture that might be up in arms about the term, either due to ignorance, or more likely, malicious boredom.

Ignore them, and they'll eventually go away.

As ill-luck would have it. While looking up an old Spanish western movie I ended up finding some mental rejects rant about proving how "racist" the movie was because... Someone playing cards has three kings = KKK. A town called "White Rock". and so on ad stupidium.

Spooks is fine.  Now if you named them Bluegum Spooks that would be different.

Quote from: Omega;805964As ill-luck would have it. While looking up an old Spanish western movie I ended up finding some mental rejects rant about proving how "racist" the movie was because... Someone playing cards has three kings = KKK. A town called "White Rock". and so on ad stupidium.

i would think there are some people (im looking at you jack chick) who would cry Satan the moment they saw 3 6s