It was suggested I begin a thread on games I like, so here goes...
Spire: The City Must Fall. For those who don't know, it's a really weird and cool fantasy setting based in the titular Spire, a mile-tall megastructure that was, until about a century ago, controlled by the drow. The aelfir High Elves invaded and took it over, all but enslaving the drow, placing each them under a four year durance when they come of age. The base concept is you play drow revolutionaries of the Ministry, a clandestine organization devoted to tearing down the aelfir.
The system might be enjoyable to those who prefer not to have a meta currency and the only narrative bits are adjudicating what's known as Fallout (the end result of bad things happening). It's got a similar vibe to Blades in the Dark while steering away from player-driven narrative "Nope!" mechanics. The only “storygamey” bits are coming up with descriptions of results, otherwise it’s math.
The system is rolling up to 4 (rarely more) D10s and depending on the result it decides if you succeed, succeed with Stress, and so on. Stress is applied to one of your Resistances, which are damn cool. They are as follows:
Blood-physical harm, fatigue, etc.
Mind-willpower, mental drain, terror, physic damage, etc.
Silver-your fiscal "health", buying power, investments, etc.
Reputation-social currencies, popularity, etc.
Shadow-anonymity, clandestine protection, etc.
Take enough Stress to a Resistance and you get the aforementioned Fallout. The severity of the Fallout is based on your Stress level; the higher the Stress the worse the Fallout. That can be whatever is appropriate and the GM decides. Blood Fallout could be a "bruised jaw" all the way to "holding in your guts". Shadow Fallout might be "the neighbors are suspicious" up to "the Solar Guard is burning down your safe house...with you in it". It's pretty awesome to track things beyond mental and physical health.
Where it really shines is the setting and the classes. It's crazy and PCs can get insane(ly cool) powers. One class, the Firebrand (revolutionary provocateur) can literally become a thought...a mantra or song of the revolution carried in the minds of those who believe. The mercantile Azurites can literally buy away wounds as they sacrifice money to the gods. The Midwives (the caregiver of the drow eggs) can become terrifying spider hybrids in defense of drow society. The Bound pray to the small gods in their gear, strengthening their armor or unleashing the hungering god of their blade. They have an ability to always have one last sip in the bottle..one last smoke in the crumpled pack. The Knights have abilities that range from knowing where the nearest bar is all the way to a Sword in the Stone quest. One of my favorite classes is the Vermissian Sage, a scholar who studies and draws upon the roiling, dangerous tear in reality resting in the center of Spire: the Heart.
They have really awesome demonology stuff which is brutally terrifying. Priests who have waxen organs and become a living hive for sacred bees. Urban ranger-like Carrion priests bonded with a hyena, eventually able to meld with it, turning into a massive hyena-monster. There's a cult who implant shards from a massive crystal intelligence into their brains and then can link to a mystical data-hive. Secret societies, horrible truths hidden, cults, vigilantes, etc.
You play as drow but there are humans, high elves, gnolls, gutterkin goblins and so on. The setting feels almost cyberpunk, especially with its "Fight the Man!" vibe. What's cool is that you decide how intense you fight. Are you a vigilante "drow Batman" in Perch fighting drug lords and gangs? Are you an Azurite banker playing chess with money to weaken a corrupt council? Are you an Idol who uses their celebrity to influence high society? Do you play as a Mask and bring your master's plans to ruin right under their noses? You can be a murderous Firebrand terrorist no better than the aelfir. Or a noble Lahjan priest tending to the sick and poor.
One thing I really liked was the sidebar on slavery. It wasn't preachy or self-loathing and was done well. While anyone can tune the dial to take the game as "Black power uprising against the rich whiteness!", I haven't seen that in there. My point is that those sick of preachy games won’t find it smacking them in the face. It’s only there if you look for it.
Anyway, I haven't played it yet but have been absolutely loving what I have read. Even if the system isn't your taste, the dark, creepy, weird setting has ton of awesome, original ideas and I feel it's well worth a look.
I hadn't heard of that, but the setting sounds quite intriguing... not so sure about the rules.
The revolutionary plotline also grabs my interest.
I've played it for a couple of sessions - I was one of the hyena-priests. It has a great background. System seemed solid, although we didn't get to try any "high-level" stuff. Would definitely play it again.
This one is on my radar a long time. The setting and classes are crazy good. Wish my group gave it a try.
It's cool to see others like it. I'm all for sharing ideas and such about it, if people like.
I did see this game on kickstarter but for some reason just could not interested in the premise. Not sure why because I am a fan of all things Drow.
It's a shame Spire wasn't nominated for this year's #ENnies, and had I known about it earlier I would have pushed for it. $25 bucks for a PDF is a little high for me though, so I'm waiting for it to be on sale again or bundled with a bunch of other products in the line.
The quickstart was a #Kickstarter exclusive, but for those curious there's an SRD of sorts for the system on DriveThru called The Resistance Toolbox (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/254150/Resistance-Toolbox).
The publishers are also currently having an open playtest of their next game Heart which you can sign up for here (https://rowanrookanddecard.us15.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=7d70a485c106d21ad2c394929&id=0c709a7879).
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1095412It's a shame Spire wasn't nominated for this year's #ENnies, and had I known about it earlier I would have pushed for it. $25 bucks for a PDF is a little high for me though, so I'm waiting for it to be on sale again or bundled with a bunch of other products in the line.
The quickstart was a #Kickstarter exclusive, but for those curious there's an SRD of sorts for the system on DriveThru called The Resistance Toolbox (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/254150/Resistance-Toolbox).
The publishers are also currently having an open playtest of their next game Heart which you can sign up for here (https://rowanrookanddecard.us15.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=7d70a485c106d21ad2c394929&id=0c709a7879).
Heart is actually crazier, if that's possible. My only potential bugaboo is that it's got a "different-but-largely-the-same" system than Spire. That's not bad, and maybe it's a refinement, but it'd be cool to mix the two easily. Even so, it shouldn't be too difficult, especially narratively.
If you want a hardcopy they will get it to you very fast. I ordered the whole nine yards of it so I could avoid the $25 shipping multiple times.
Ordered it on a Monday, shipped on Tuesday, got to me (across the pond) on Wednesday.
Looking through it now it's quite good.
A bit of a fantasy Necromunda, with a hint of Bioshock Infinite... and the maps bring Fallen London to mind.
The rules seem nowhere near as storygamey as I'd expected.
Quote from: Simlasa;1095523Looking through it now it's quite good.
A bit of a fantasy Necromunda, with a hint of Bioshock Infinite... and the maps bring Fallen London to mind.
The rules seem nowhere near as storygamey as I'd expected.
Bioshock isn't a thing I connected to it. Interesting, especially with the Deep Apiarists. As far as the rules go, I enjoy how the math offers little "blocks" to fill in narratively.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095526Bioshock isn't a thing I connected to it.
Only in the sense of underclass revolution in a preposterous urban setting.
Quote from: Simlasa;1095523and the maps bring Fallen London to mind.
Funny you mention that (https://www.failbettergames.com/skyfarer/).
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1095553Funny you mention that (https://www.failbettergames.com/skyfarer/).
Oh! I knew about Skyfarer but didn't realize the authors.
The only trouble is that the larger Fallen London setting is not extensively covered anywhere because the profit for the computer games comes from keeping much of it mysterious. There's a wiki, but it's not what you'd usually want to run a game.
You really need to play through the games and keep notes, try to draw maps... create your own version of it.
Quote from: Simlasa;1095532Only in the sense of underclass revolution in a preposterous urban setting.
No, I was agreeing, apologies if it seemed otherwise. I just didn't make the connection until you mentioned it, so good link. Super powered body horror dissidents? Yeah, totally Bioshock.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095585No, I was agreeing, apologies if it seemed otherwise. I just didn't make the connection until you mentioned it, so good link. Super powered body horror dissidents? Yeah, totally Bioshock.
Does that mean I can kill people with a murder of crows?
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1095654Does that mean I can kill people with a murder of crows?
Yes actually, IIRC the class that has pet hyenas (Carrion Priest?) eventually can summon murderous flocks of crows.
Quote from: Simlasa;1095523The rules seem nowhere near as storygamey as I'd expected.
Tell us about the rules!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095659Tell us about the rules!
Besides what's in the OP, what else would you like to know?
Quote from: Simlasa;1095656Yes actually, IIRC the class that has pet hyenas (Carrion Priest?) eventually can summon murderous flocks of crows.
You recall correctly. It's really fucking awesome. I didn't expect to like the Carrion Priest as much as I do.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095672Besides what's in the OP, what else would you like to know?
What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?
AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?
And the Carrion Priest sounds awesome.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?
AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?
And the Carrion Priest sounds awesome.
First off, yes, the Carrion Priest is awesome. Every class is, honestly. As far as the rules go, what aspects of more narrative games puts you off? It's easier to address those bits than shotgun.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?
AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?
I'm not too fond of Narrativium in my games either, but so far as I've read there isn't anything in this game that put me off.
I heard the authors say in an interview that they weren't fans of the PBTA system.
There is a GM, who does get to roll dice.
It's got a fair bit of alt-jargon... like an encounter is a 'situation', HP of a physical/mental/social/financial sort are 'resistances', experience gains you 'advances'. But its not too cloying and generally serves to reinforce the atmosphere.
A lot of the possible consequences for good or bad rolls are left up to the GM, sometimes the Player with GM approval.
There is a bit of letting the Player describe things, like their initial Bonds (valuable relationships within Spire). The classes have abilities that are often magical/divine that let a Player declare something about an NPC or a location... but the GM generally still has a say in it.
It's a simple system with a lot of abstractions that the GM and Players will need to hang flesh on... but I saw nothing like Fate points that let a player full on retcon something or 'narrate' an occurence without involving some sort of magical/divine/weird power.
Also, being so simple, anything like that would be a cinch to just ignore/alter if it bugged me.
I haven't read the GM advice section yet, and I believe it might push a 'fail forward' sort of style... but again, easily ignored.
I'm not sure whether I'd run it by the RAW or port the setting to another system I know/like... I don't think it would be too hard at all to translate it to something like Mythras, with its cults and gangs and such... but I certainly wouldn't be at all adverse to playing in a game using them.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095690What exactly separates the game from a traditional RPG system?
AKA, if I don't like narrative RPG systems, what isn't going to work for me here?
I'm not too fond of Narrativium in my games, but I haven't seen anything in my read-through of Spire (so far) that puts me off.
There is a traditional GM, the game doesn't gimp them, they get to roll dice.
For what it's worth, I heard the authors say, in an interview, that they're not fans of the PBTA systems.
There are not stats/characteristics (STR, DEX, CON...). There are Skills and 'Domains' and 'Advances' which empower the PCs by giving them more dice to roll... but it's not a dice pool game. You usually only count whichever D10 rolls the highest (so like getting multiple Advantage in 5e).
There are classes but not exactly levels... PCs get 'Advances' (Feats/powers) for doing things that affect the setting for good or ill. The GM determines how big the change was and what degree of Advance to reward.
There is a fair bit of alt-jargon... encounters are 'Situations', HP for physical/mental/financial/social damage is 'Resistance', damage is 'Stress. None of it is too awfully cloying, doesn't come off as trying to be 'clever' and generally reinforces the atmosphere IMO.
There's nothing too meta, like Fate points, that let PCs retcon stuff or conjure aid for no reason (though there are some Advances that enable that, but they're generally magical/divine and the GM gets a say).
Players do get to describe their initial 'Bonds' (valuable connections within Spire) but, that's no biggie (and nothing says the GM can't nix whatever they come up with).
The rules are very simple and fairly abstract about the consequences of any dice roll... leaving it up to the GM (and possibly Players) to supply the details. I can see how this aspect could be pushed toward or away from a more storygame-ish playstyle, but the suggestion is to follow 'common sense' rather than what is best for 'the story'.
I haven't got to the GM's advice section yet, and I assume I might have some qualms with its 'fail forward' suggetions... but that stuff isn't hard coded into the rules.
As far as dreaded 'politics' go... there is a section, (unnecessary IMO) regarding slavery in the setting... since every Drow is assumed to go through a period of 'Durance' (indentured servitude) to become a quasi-citizen. That, or they somehow bought their way out of it, or went underground to avoid it. The authors felt the need to let the reader know they had no interest in exploring chattel slavery (which Durance is not).
Also, the text of the rules mixes pronouns (again, with an author's note explaining)... he/she/they... freely. This tripped me up a few times where I was skimming and got confused about whether a reference was to singular or plural.
Overall, the rules definitely nod to 'modern' RPGs... but to my eyes there's nothing self-satified or 'innovative' about them... no different for the sake of being different. The authors don't talk dirt about other systems (unlike some of the folks I've seen promoting it).
It's been a day so no time to hop on until now. By and large the above is spot on. It's a very cool game and if a bizarre, creepy twist on drow, fantasy and even a wee bit of "cyberpunk" is your jam, I'd take a peek.
Quote from: Simlasa;1095777There is a fair bit of alt-jargon... encounters are 'Situations', HP for physical/mental/financial/social damage is 'Resistance', damage is 'Stress.
I think you've become so used to game jargon that common terminology now sounds like jargon :D
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1095861I think you've become so used to game jargon that common terminology now sounds like jargon :D
Whatever... I'm just pointing out stuff to Spinachcat that people often complain about in 'new' games, such as pointlessly renaming common elements of RPGs. None of it bothered me in Spire.
Thank you Simlasa and AC!
Great breakdown. Not thrilled with the jargon, but that's not a deal-breaker.
The setting alone seems that it would be worth stealing if I didn't want to use the system.
I wouldn't sweat the jargon, Spinachcat, it's not really jarring. Even as a fan of what are considered "Forgey storygames", Spire doesn't smack of that. I need to actually use the system to give a truly informed opinion, but at first blush it's really neat. A big thing, as was mentioned, is that barring some power there's no meta-currency for players to fiddle with.