So the Space:1889 setting was basically a divergent/alternate timeline; the original game detailed what the world (the solar system, actually) looked like a few years into that alternate line.

What would the game look like if a new edition was released now, set 100 years before the present date of publication (just as the original was)? How would the timeline have continued to diverge?

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The internal cumbustion engine would change things a lot, maybe little one man liftwood fighters with machine guns?

Probably a cross between the zepplin age, and aircraft carrier development would happen all at once.

Smokeless firearms would change things a lot. Machineguns, would be dominant with semi auto handheld weapons (rifles/pistols) probably coming into widespread use sooner. (Although everyone knows the really good semi-auto handgun wasn't introduced until 1911.)

Light but strong armor would have to be something you have to pour money into developing - wood and rapidfire guns don't mix. Ceramic or kevlar armor getting earlier starts?

I think Britain would have come out on top on Mars, with Germany a distant second, and the other powers scrambeling for the crumbs.

As I recall liftwood was only avaliable from Mars- so whoever had a big hold on liftwood production would have immense economic power. Mars might be very similar to a Dune type situation.

And of course there'd be people looking for ways to break the liftwood monopoly on air travel. Imagine if the Wright brothers got major funding from the Kaiser...


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Iron Stars, a game of WW1ish space naval battles has a decent timeline. Great seting for an rpg, imo.
http://mj12games.com/ironstars/



It's fun, too.

Quote from: stu2000Iron Stars, a game of WW1ish space naval battles has a decent timeline. Great seting for an rpg, imo.
http://mj12games.com/ironstars/



It's fun, too.

I just downloaded the demo pdf and skimmed it real quick.  Wow.  I am so buying this game when I get the cash.  It looks really fun and I know there are folks in this area who would play.

Having just read Edgar Rice Burrough's "The Mad King", which is set before and during The Great War, I can kindaget into this idea, you bet.

A few ideas:

* potential of a Great War occuring several years earlier than in our timeline.  Looking at the world iof Space:1889, the colonial situation on other planets mirrors that of Earth in the real world.  The British Empire is dominant on the most strategically important world--Mars, because of its liftwood--while Germany is left with trading stations.  That means that Germany has the same ambition to have its own empire, instead of its imperial ambitions satisfied in by offworld colonies.  

   WWI nearly kicked off eight years early when France and Germany came to blows over the French virtual take-over of Morocco.  If the Kaiser was rash enough to risk war despite the diplomatic isolation Germany suffered in that incident...well, you get a Great War.  Possibly without the static trench warfare, since with airships you get practical airmobile combat.  Germany was, after all, the home of Otto Lilienthal.  Imagine the new Fallschirmjaeger glider-assault regiments seizing key road junctions before the French army can rally at the Marne.  Or British airborne commandos staging raids deep in Germany using dynamite.

* Development of atomic power much earlier than in our reality.  Assuming radiation is the same despite the ether, nuclear power would be an extremely important advance for space colonization.  Ether fliers use "solar boilers"--solar furnaces, using mirrors to focus sunlight for steam power--to power the ether propellers that make interplanetary flight possible.  Steam or internal combustion engines can't be used because of the lack of oxygen in the ether.  I could see the Curie's work in radioactivity resulting in primitive "radium pile" reactors.  Space flight beyond the asteroid belt (where sunlight is too weak to power solar boilers) becomes possible.  Which could be a problem, as in the S:1889 solar system life follows an evolutionary progression.  If the Martians represent a "decadent and stagnant" stage of evolution, who *knows* what sort of life exists in the gas giants and the cold reaches of the Kuiper Belt...
   
* One of my own personal fascinations: a Zionist homeland established offworld in a variation of the "Uganda Plan" offered at one of the Zionist conferences in 1903.  Call it "Altneuland" or "New Zion".  You could go parallel of our world route--have it on Mars, with the Sabras fighting angry Martians--or having it placed on a land truly without a people (Mercury) that the British would want colonized.

Quote from: Samarkand* Development of atomic power much earlier than in our reality.

I'll see your uranium power and raise you a cold fusion.

I'm running a steampunk campaign that is bogged down in ninjas and not very steampunky.  If it ever gets back on track, they're going to time-line-hop into a time-line with widespread electricity and jealously guarded cold fusion.

Quote from: Jaeger(Although everyone knows the really good semi-auto handgun wasn't introduced until 1911.)

:haw:

I like cowboy pictures set in this period. I like that Dutch in The Wild Bunch had a semi-auto. Does anyone remember Heck Ramsey? He was a crusty old crimefighting cowboy in the late oughts or early teens who relied on experience, rather than fancy new guns, automobiles, or forensics. Richard Boone, I believe. Awesome show . . .

The big question for the British would be the Boer war and whether Martian independance movements and hostile kingdoms would take advantage of this to open a second front. Even with significant technological advantages such as liftwood, the Boer war would prove a strain on the army's manpower - fighting on Mars would push it further.

This could mean that reform of the army and mass conscription introduced to fight on both fronts would come in earlier - a 1907 British Empire that has won in both South Africa and Mars could find itself with a large modern army (and airforce) that it doesn't know what to do with and possibly lead to further imperialism. This could hasten the Great War as Germany sees itself out-armed on land, sea and air or at the least see Europe become more of an armed camp as Germany opposes British adventurism.

Alternatively a UK that lost one or both conflicts could become insular, retreating from an alliance with France and Russia and focusing on trade rather than land and eschewing conflicts. Syrtis Major could become an unstable territory, its young king unable to rule effectively and at the beck of the various Martian powers that helped 'liberate' it. A 1907 Europe would be the start of a Greater Germany, as the Benelux countries get sucked into its wake without the guranteee of British support. Although a more insular Britain could happen in the case of winning on both fronts as that was a result of Boer War in any case along with the first doubts about the good of Empire.

Social wise UK would remain largely the same. It was the Great War that was the start of mass social change as the upper classes were wiped out and middle classes bought into fight. Not sure if you can  use Channel 4 on line service outside UK but there was a good one last night about exactly that subject and how different social classes were forced together.

I would say the big 'discovery' would not necessarily be atomic energy but artificial liftwood. This is given in the rules and would radically change the nature of the world. Germany would no longer be a second class power without access to liftwood, while Britain's vast colonial holdings and more importantly control of liftwood supplies would now be a drain.

Another argument against a Great War is that Germany has 'control' of much of Venus in that no other power views it was worthwhile. In 1907, some of the technical problems of operating in Venus might have been resolved, opening up a wealth of raw materials that might appease German nationalism. Indeed while the British and others on Mars are limited by their ability to overcome other nations, the Germans are limited by their ability to come up with solutions to the climate of Venus. If that was addressed then they would have possibly greater resources and wealth.

Also liftwood, artifical or not, could change any Great war scenario (although whether it would happen by 1907?). With flying troop carriers the front lines would be far more fluid, certainly until the invention of radar or something similar. In a world where the UK held the monopoloy on liftwood as the game implied then Germany might avoid war at all costs leading to a 'peaceful' period marked more by espionage, cold war and localised small wars.

The wild cards would be ancient martian technology and the US. If anyone can make sense of the technology it could give the nation whose scientists make the discovery significant power. The US would still be consolidating its own westward expansion in economic terms but what if there were liftwood vessels of sufficient size to make mass passenger conveyance across the system a reality (I can't remember the time it takes to reach Mars or Venus but assume its comparable to crossing the Atlantic).

Ambitious Martian princes might see a pool of skilled human labour willing to do jobs city martians don't as extremely valuable and offer them abandoned farmsteads that have fallen into disuse or opportunities for ranching rather than relying on those pesky desert martians. Add to that rumours of hidden treasure (as per Black Hills) as opposed to panning for gold and Mars (or Venus if gold is found) could be the destination of choice for emmigrants from Europe and China. Over the 18 years between 1889 and 1907 this could significantly blunt US population growth although the Indian Wars would have ended, so the end result would look the same but without the internal demand for consumer goods that helped build US industry.

NiallS for the win.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditNiallS for the win.

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Work avoidance is a great driver of RP ideas.

One thing the original book didn't cover but which both Borroughs and others do is the opportunity for interbreeding between human and martian. While probably easier it ignore, if it was a possibility then 1907 would see the first of this generation coming to adulthood and power/marginalisation.

Finally I often wondered how in a 'realistic' 1889, theology would cope with the existance of martians and worse lizardmen. Although mainstream C of E would still exist (God coming somewhat behind Queen and Country) you might see an abandonement of church attendance 60-70 years earlier. Certainly agnosticism and atheism would gain more weight and you might see the rise of evangelical groups even quicker as preachers come up with fanciful explanations for the existence of the red-skinned peoples (lost tribe of Israel springs to mind, children of Cain etc). A Papacy that categorically stated that martians had no souls would give weight to catholic Belgian's oppression of the Coprates.

GDW seemed to be leading up to an early WWI fought mainly offworld and outside of Europe, especially with more wargaming books and games. Personally I'd run a campaign to see how such a war could be avoided or at least not turn out to be so devastating. Even if it wouldn't wreck Europe and royalty it likely would result in some of the Earth and offworld colonies / natives rebelling, some might even be successful.

The Space: 1889 fanzine TRMGS had some post-1889 articles. A good chunk of the articles are online.
http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/

http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs1/steampunk.shtml
1920 was arbitrarily set IIRC, since the submitted tech was deemed too advanced for 1889 by the editor.

http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/ww1.shtml

Pretty sure one or two fansites expand the timeline.

Quote from: NiallSFinally I often wondered how in a 'realistic' 1889, theology would cope with the existance of martians and worse lizardmen. Although mainstream C of E would still exist (God coming somewhat behind Queen and Country) you might see an abandonement of church attendance 60-70 years earlier. Certainly agnosticism and atheism would gain more weight and you might see the rise of evangelical groups even quicker as preachers come up with fanciful explanations for the existence of the red-skinned peoples (lost tribe of Israel springs to mind, children of Cain etc). A Papacy that categorically stated that martians had no souls would give weight to catholic Belgian's oppression of the Coprates.

I vaguely remember this line of thought coming up in one of the Martian books for the game, maybe even a brief mention in the rulebook. Also a traveling missionary NPC and some converted Martians (or was is Venusian Lizardpeople?).

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Having just read Edgar Rice Burrough's "The Mad King", which is set before and during The Great War, I can kindaget into this idea, you bet.

Great find, thanks! Burrough's answer to The Prisoner of Zenda! :cool:

And it's free online:
Project Gutenberg entry
Manybooks.net entry (more formats including custom versions done on the fly)
looks like Google Books also has it

I would personally have been far more interested to learn about Martian theology and how it would have affected the European world.

In our real victorian age, the conquest of India led to a fascination in Great Britain (and to a certain extent the entire continent of europe) with Hinduism, Buddhism, Lamas, Tibet, Fakirs, etc etc.
It led to the creation of movements like the Theosophists, who used a weird combination of eastern philosophy, western occultism and made-up metaphysics to sell courses and books.
Many of the upper crust of British society were theosophists or involved in similar movements.

It would have been good if somewhere in Space:1889 they'd given us a glimpse of what Martian religion is like; and then to know how it would have affected the western world. Imagine the Theosophists being inspired as much by Martian philosophies as by indian ones. Imagine Aleister Crowley trying to climb Olympus Mons on mars and then receiving mystical texts from discarnate entities inside MARTIAN pyramids (or equivalent).

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