And it's done and we made it to £5000.

Congratulations!

A very close thing TBH.

I did learn that KickSpy is a better predictor of results than KickTraq overall, which is useful for later KSs. KickSpy uses a weighting system against comparable KS. KickTraq uses the KS's previous result to extrapolate forward, and doing so generally fails to take into account common KS trends like the usual surges at the beginning and end of each KS.

I've only seen the free Chapter 7, and based on that I must say I wish someone else would take care of the layout. I don't mean to be harsh, but I really think it's doing the game a disservice. The layout totally ruins the mood and it's not doing the watercolour illustrations any justice. At least the sketch-style digital art is going to be replaced, apparently, so it's gonna look just a little less like a game from 2002.

Quote from: bottg;802381The RPG.net chat from last night is here:

https://gmshoe.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/qa-graham-bottley-sorcerers-of-ur-turuk/

Great read, especially about the (amazing) art.

Quote from: f13;803827I've only seen the free Chapter 7, and based on that I must say I wish someone else would take care of the layout. I don't mean to be harsh, but I really think it's doing the game a disservice. The layout totally ruins the mood and it's not doing the watercolour illustrations any justice. At least the sketch-style digital art is going to be replaced, apparently, so it's gonna look just a little less like a game from 2002.

Graham is an efficient operator. He works wonders on a very small budget and gets his games out on time. One downside is that he generally doesn't have the budget or time to polish his games in terms of layout to the highest degree.

I am cool with that though. The layout could be prettier, but I thinks its pretty good compared to many RPGs produced on the same budget. It does reinforce the mood of the book and it also works from a utility perspective, which is one of the main purposes of layout.

Does that mean its a disservice? Its a product of the factors surrounding the game and it is good on balance of those. Hopefully, when more people pledge like we did, the layout will improve, as we have seen with the digital art But expecting it otherwise is getting the cart before the horse.

Quote from: Skywalker;803880Graham is an efficient operator. He works wonders on a very small budget and gets his games out on time. One downside is that he generally doesn't have the budget or time to polish his games in terms of layout to the highest degree.

I am cool with that though. The layout could be prettier, but I thinks its pretty good compared to many RPGs produced on the same budget. It does reinforce the mood of the book and it also works from a utility perspective, which is one of the main purposes of layout.

Does that mean its a disservice? Its a product of the factors surrounding the game and it is good on balance of those. Hopefully, when more people pledge like we did, the layout will improve, as we have seen with the digital art But expecting it otherwise is getting the cart before the horse.

I certainly respect that, especially the part about getting out his games on time. What I mean is that there's stuff in there he's doing that's actually taking extra time (strokes and shadows and funny-shaped boxes and textures and more strokes and shadows) and isn't really doing anything either from an utility perspective, either from an aesthetic one. In my opinon, a simpler design would do a better job and also save time and money. I'm attaching a sample page only as to illustrate my point, not necessarily to say that my design is better or whatever. (I put 27 in there just because it looks better than 66. That's the kind of guy I am. Don't count on me for proper page numbering).

The page on the right is easier to read due to the larger font size and the simpler background color. The left side looks to have a parchment effect that would be really nice on a 2-3 page handout but makes it harder for me to read the text in a game supplement.

I'm on the fence regarding the picture frame around the art. On the one hand the frame on the left makes it look like a literal window into another world which is cool. On the other hand, the picture on the right without the frame makes it seem like the rules and the world are one which is also nice.

Of course no one asked my opinion so it is worth about what you paid for it.

The layout will be tweaked and revised now that the KS is finished, and i do really like that one on the right!

My next job is to get all of the text finished by the end of next week, and then i will revisit layout.  I will post some samples here if you are OK looking them over?  It is quite a difficult job.  On the one hand i have a vision in my brain for how i want it to "feel", but on the other hand, sometimes the creator is too close to see how it will look.

Add to that the fact that a page or two printed out will look very different from a whole book laid out that way!

I appreciate all of the thoughts though, so keep them coming!

Quote from: bottg;804077The layout will be tweaked and revised now that the KS is finished, and i do really like that one on the right!

My next job is to get all of the text finished by the end of next week, and then i will revisit layout.  I will post some samples here if you are OK looking them over?  It is quite a difficult job.  On the one hand i have a vision in my brain for how i want it to "feel", but on the other hand, sometimes the creator is too close to see how it will look.

Add to that the fact that a page or two printed out will look very different from a whole book laid out that way!

I appreciate all of the thoughts though, so keep them coming!

I know it's difficult and I sympathize with you. You shouldn't necessarily listen to me, as a designer I get obsessed with minutiae (like bad letter-spacing and grid misalignment and stuff like that) and see those as glaring mistakes, when they're really of little significance in the big picture. As you can see from Bren and Skywalker's replies, you're doing a good job and I'm certain your supporters and future buyers will be happy with the book. I know I'll buy it (as I was unable to support the kickstarter, unfortunately).

What made me react was that I felt that, since they're such a great asset for setting the mood, the watercolours should be given more space to breathe (and brightened up a bit, see attachment, I noticed the image was a little dull). I'd fill pages and maybe even full spreads with them, at the expense of character illustrations, which I don't like no matter the game or artist (another reason why you shouldn't listen to me, since that's a lifelong tradition for rpgs).

Quote from: f13;804083What made me react was that I felt that, since they're such a great asset for setting the mood, the watercolours should be given more space to breathe (and brightened up a bit, see attachment, I noticed the image was a little dull).

I only noticed the brightness difference subconciously. Now that you point it out, I can see that part of the reason the picture on the left is looking through a window is because it has less brightness than the picture on the right. Interesting.

Actually, I've only changed the brightness in the last picture

Quote from: Bren;804138I only noticed the brightness difference subconciously. Now that you point it out, I can see that part of the reason the picture on the left is looking through a window is because it has less brightness than the picture on the right. Interesting.

Quote from: f13;804144Actually, I've only changed the brightness in the last picture

Hah! So not so interesting after all. Another good theory ruined by facts.

I've backed this! Reminded me a lot about Ars Magica (which is a good thing IMO), but the D6 system is a lot more intuitive and basically simpler rule set. Setting wise I was intrigued as well...gave me immediately thoughts about Irem and doing something with a Cthulhu vibe.

About the layout: I like the right page more than the original (left) page, but I'm especially interested in the content. I don't care too much about the layout to be honest...

The first books are arriving for backers. The end result is larger (180 pages) and prettier than the drafts.