1. How many books/booklets and how much total page count do you like in a box set?
2. What extras do you like to have on top of the booklets?
3. Are you willing to pay more, per page of content, for a box set than for a single book? If so, why?
I'm not sure if I can come up with an exact page count or cost per page count, but I see that a boxed set has several potential advantages.
(1) Everything can be kept in one place, so more smaller items can be included.
(2) Because of #1, rules can be divided into Player books and GM books so that a player doesn't have access to secret stuff.
(3) Boxed sets have space for lots of maps.
I think those are the things I like best about boxed sets.
finarvyn has answered for me.
I wouldn't want dice, unless the game has special dice that are not normally available. Character sheets might be useful.
1. I'm a big fan of the 3 booklet system if having basic intro rules, gm book, and an advanced "going forward book"
2. Dice required for the game and handouts and play aids that are useful beyond whatever introductory adventure is shoved in.
With few exceptions I'm not a fan of intro adventures but that's a personal hang up.
3. Only if it's neatly put together and aesthetically pleasing enough to show off especially to kids and teenagers who I try to indoctrinate.
1. As much as relevant. Though I prefer a general page count of 50+ total. Ideally two to three booklets of 25 - 50 pages each.
2. MAPS! :) MOAR MAPS! Even artsy fartsy maps! (and also cut outs, distributable props, and other goodies. and maps! :p )
3. Yes... within reason. Because cats like boxes. :D But truthfully, it's all about ease of transport of pamphlets (less in the gaming bag, faster reference, split DM v Player info,) and MAPS! Did I mention maps yet? :o
Don't go crazy on the booklets. It does let you do the GM/player split, which is a nice, and maybe a separate adventure. But a half a dozen books are a pain to manage. Ideally, keep them slim enough to be saddle stitched (stapled).
Another vote for the extras. Maps yes, but all kinds of handouts are great. Custom character sheets for different classes, player backgrounds, props like stained maps or pages, art, ship blueprints, etc. Put some thought and effort into it; avoid filler. And don't worry about some of the traditional things, like dice or pencils. Nobody who plays an RPG needs dice, and unless you're named Wizards of the Coast it's unlikely you're targeting brand new players.
1. 3 books is great, 2 is fine, 1 is acceptable if it's big (but in that case, you'd better have something else along with it to justify a boxed set).
2. Maps! Maps maps maps. Player handouts are good, I like dice too.
3. I'm willing to pay more for a boxed set because boxed sets tend to come with neat extra shit (like maps, dice, so on). Everything in one place is handy as well.
1) 2 books (GM + players') is good. 3 can also be good if the third contains info organized in such a way as to be immediately useful for the GM (while the second is "long term" GM info).
2) Maps, or props which are "permanently" useful (i.e. not something like a character sheet which I can just print or anything related to a specific adventure). Player aids would be great too (basic turn structure, other info which doesn't fit on the sheets)
3) Not necessarily. Depends on execution. I like boxes as a rule, but they need to have stuff which I find useful.
My answers:
1. I like to have 2-3 booklets with not more than ~200 pages total. Too much and I feel like a big book has been cut up and put into a box.
2. I like character sheets, maps, and dice, especially custom dice. Also cheat sheets and play aids. I like the feeling of "wait, there is more" even if it comes down to a flyer or a "what's in this box?" sheet.
3. I'm willing to pay more for a box set. It would be nice these days if PDFs were thrown in, though. Dungeon Fantasy was a $60 box and then you'll pay another $40 for the PDFs.
Enough different booklets so that premium space--inside of the front cover, last page, inside of the back cover, and outside of the back cover--all manage to get used for things are needed in play the most, whatever that is for the system. If characters get made a lot, some of it can be used for that. Also, enough books that 6 to 8 people can easily make characters at the same time, with minimal wait. It's possible to do a fairly decent job of this with as little as 3 books, if the nominal "GM book" has some of the equipment in it. Mainly, though, I want to have at least 3 back covers that would make a passable GM screen.
As far as extras, I can take or leave dice. I've got plenty, and don't care for specialty dice. The rest, I'm 50/50 on. Maps are great, but since I'd prefer to do my own setting and adventures, they are or somewhat limited utility. A bunch of 2-page (one page front and back) locations would be nice, though.
People have already covered what I want in the box, but I also want to state that the box itself needs to be sturdy enough to stay together after some time on the shelf. If I can use the box lid as a die rolling tray (better with more shallow boxes), so much the better. I do not want weird ass plastic designer boxes that inflate the price by a lot and make it harder to fit them on bookshelves.
I like boxed sets for RPGs to have:
Decent maps. This is really a great opportunity to show off the game world and is nice to lay it out as appropriate to players.
Nice if it's in colour or a well drawn black and white map.
I would like the rules to be split into separate physical books,
Such as a Player book, GM book, Tech/Magic book, monster book etc.. (as appropriate to the setting)
Nice to see those inserts they used to have in Boxed sets advertising their other products.
I guess less necessary these days what with having the Internet now, but still it was fun to read those old product booklets.
I don't know if anyone has said this but empty space. Because I like to keep follow up books in the box too.
Tom
Don't care for boxed sets anymore since the days of TSR buying out SPI. Like starter sets even less.
- A rule book and a setting book. Players IME never read anything so I don't really need separate GM and Player books. Perhaps add a book or booklet with a couple of scenarios, and generically usable prefab characters and NPCs.
- Maps and floorplans! Preferrably generically usable ones, not specifically tied in to a scenario.
- I like a reference sheet/GM screen. Perhaps also add a bunch of reference sheets specifically for players.
- No need for dice and pencils!
What Lone Wolf Adventure Game did, basically.
I liked the Games Workshop box for Judge Dredd.
- a Slim Player handbook
- a Fat Gamemaster book
- Dice
- 2 Large maps
- cut-out figures and flats.
It's a pity I had to DIY the GM screen myself :)
1) I am not big on the player book / GM book split thing. I'm also not a fan of how box sets often seem used as an excuse to produce staple bound books of low quality stock with toilet tissue covers.
I would like to see a box set with a main core book of a quality level which could easily be sold on its own outside the box set. I think this core book should be at least 96 pages 8.5"x11" perfect bound softcover.
A much smaller and lower quality "getting started" guide should also be included. This should be about 16 to 32 pages, is acceptable to be a staple bound boardgame rulebook sort of thing. It's fine because this element is a throwaway. It's just a quick summary of the main book mean to get people going after they open the box, and will probably never be referenced again after the first week.
2) I'd like to see several things as extras.
I want a GM screen. I don't want some flimsy cardstock screen. I want a screen which matches current standards for separately sold screens. It needs to be full color and on heavy cardstock. I'd prefer a full sized screen, but as this is a component of a box set I'd settle for a half height screen.
If the game uses miniatures combat instead of relying on theater of the mind, I want a mapboard and some miniatures as well as some counters. I don't want some flimsy ass paper map. I want folding cardboard or tiles. I want some miniatures and beautifully printed counters.
I want some character sheets. Give me a tablet of 20 or just a stack of preprinted ones.
I like monster/opponent cards. When I prepare an adventure which focuses on monster manual style opponents, I like having the reference sheets for each enemy before me. This is why I loved the AD&D2e Monstrous Compendium. So cards for the monsters would be nice. Examples would be how hero cards were done in the Marvel Super Heroes Advanced Set or, more recently, how aliens were done in the Doctor Who Adventures in Time and Space Aliens and Creatures box set.
I want dice. I don't want some throwaway dice. Give me some kind of special dice instead of some bland and random flat color polyhedrals. Think the old TORG die from the 1990 box set or the famous Ghost Die from the Ghostbusters RPG. Hell, at least the Doctor Who AITAS game gave some transparent D6s. Give dice and make them special in some way.
I want storage. I don't want some paper flimsy box like what Fantasy Flight does for it's beginner sets. If anything I want one of those tank boxes like what Fantasy Flight uses for their boardgame core sets. I don't want to pay for a box set of empty air (like what TSR started doing in the 90s), but I do want some extra space so I can toss counters or another supplement book in the box.
3) I am willing to pay for something cool. I'm willing to drop cash on something well produced. If the box set is providing something worthwhile, then yes, I'll drop more on it than I would for a nice hardcover book.
BUT, it has to offer something superior in it's contents to that hypothetical hardcover book.
I'd like a sturdy box, something that will hold up over years of banging around during travel.
Three books would be nice but I don't really have a page count or price/page idea.
Book 1 - A player's book. Something I can hand over to someone and it has everything they need to make a character. This includes basic setting rundown so they know elves are evil plant people from Mars or whatever is unique about the setting.
Book 2 - A rules book. All the rules in one place so that if we need to look something up (not specifically character related) we know to grab this book. Lots of examples in here.
Book 3 - A setting/GM book. I don't need 20+ pages detailing the population breakdown of every city and a building by building tour. Rather, give me 1/2 a page per location you think may be a cool place to have something happen or a brief encounter idea. This would replace the intro adventure some don't like as it still helps people new to the game get an idea of what the PCs do without the bloat/railroad some adventures offer. Throw in a small section on monster/rivals and guidelines for making my own. If treasure is a thing, have some unique treasures here.
Alternately, you could crunch book 1 and 2 togehter. The Strange and Numenera did that with their players book and each was about 70 pages long.
A small pad of character sheets, maybe a couple of dozen. Along with this, a pad of "other" sheets that would be useful. Anything the GM would need regularly like NPC sheets, quick encounter sheets, galaxy reference sheets, etc.
Maps. Whatever you think would be cool to have a visual of. If the game uses minis for combat then put some tokens in the box. A couple of generic sheets with punch-outs for PCs and some of the most common monsters. Alternatively, just generic blanks (bonus if they are dry erase) that I can write "goblin 1" or "Mac the Paladin" on.
Quick reference sheets. I want a one-page card stock handout that my players can have that has 90% of the rules they will need during any given session. Things that don't come up often can be left off, but if it's something we're going to be doing every session I want it on there for them to see. A similar thing for the GM. It can be a screen, a sheet, whatever, but I want a useful GM quick reference tool. It can be covered in tables for random generation of encounters, treasure, personalities, whatever you can make a table for that you think would be useful at any given moment.
If your game uses special dice, 2 sets of them. I want 1 for the GM and 1 the players can share if they have to.
There's something that's just cool about boxed sets.
But that said, they are less durable than well-bound books.
Quote from: finarvyn;1049049I'm not sure if I can come up with an exact page count or cost per page count, but I see that a boxed set has several potential advantages.
(1) Everything can be kept in one place, so more smaller items can be included.
(2) Because of #1, rules can be divided into Player books and GM books so that a player doesn't have access to secret stuff.
(3) Boxed sets have space for lots of maps.
I think those are the things I like best about boxed sets.
This is exactly what I liked best about boxed sets.
That and they were usually the same size for many game lines, they all lined up nicely.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1049451There's something that's just cool about boxed sets.
But that said, they are less durable than well-bound books.
As someone who's worked in the printing industry for two decades, that simple thing about gaming books pisses me off. We can make books that will stand the test of time. But some choose to skimp out on materials and you get a shoddy book that falls apart when you look at it. Grrrrrr.
Quote from: The_Shadow;10490331. How many books/booklets and how much total page count do you like in a box set?
2. What extras do you like to have on top of the booklets?
3. Are you willing to pay more, per page of content, for a box set than for a single book? If so, why?
The attraction for me of the boxed sets I have bought has been "I don't have this RPG yet, and I may not know what I need to play it, and I want to try it and so I want to get a complete package that allows me to play." (The first time I tried that I got the 0D&D White Box (the "we accidentally edited out how much damage weapons do" printing, too), and was utterly disappointed that it was extremely incomplete and to me, comically incomplete and incomprehensible nonsense. I should have gotten one of the slightly later editions, Basic or Advanced, although then it would have been less funny and less obvious that I should stick to TFT.)
So, answers:
1) Enough to fully explain how to play the game I would want to run with it.
2) Enough play components to start playing. Hopefully battle maps with hexgrids and a full set of counters for the nice tactical combat system it has...
3) No, if the same books and component are available for less separately, and I know which ones are enough to play, I would start buying the books one at a time until I know I want to play or have lost interest. However if a boxed set offers less than the sum of the prices of what is in it, I might end up spending more because I might have not otherwise bought all the components that are in the box. The box itself also has some small value if it functions as a useful way to store the game.
Quote from: pdboddy;1049482As someone who's worked in the printing industry for two decades, that simple thing about gaming books pisses me off. We can make books that will stand the test of time. But some choose to skimp out on materials and you get a shoddy book that falls apart when you look at it. Grrrrrr.
It's true that they're a mixed bag. There's some well-made books that have lasted me decades and are still in great shape, and then some others that fell apart in a matter of months.