Oh, what was the name of the Oreo Twins episode? Where you had the "Police" oreo chasing the "Rebel" oreo. They get back to their word after millenium of the chase to find their world destroyed. That seemed a loss for Kirk. He wanted understanding and tolerence but the oreos really hated each other because they had different halves (one black on the right and the other black on the left). You think they would like that, they could use each other for mirrors. Oh, and one oreo was the Joker.

Kirk does not always win but usually his defeat was not total. That is the nature of a tv serial.

Bill

At least  they Show Toupee-boy (oops!) I mean Capt. James T. Kirk actually getting stressed or getting headaches about some of the situations he gets into.
 
 Thats the kind of thing a GM might want to give to a group of players.  you don't want to kill them off or  anything like that  - but do want them to actually think about the decisions their characters make. If they get REALLY into playing thir characters , then sometimes that stressed out or having a headache effect happens at the game table.


- E.W.C.

Quote from: HinterWeltOh, what was the name of the Oreo Twins episode? Where you had the "Police" oreo chasing the "Rebel" oreo. They get back to their word after millenium of the chase to find their world destroyed. That seemed a loss for Kirk. He wanted understanding and tolerence but the oreos really hated each other because they had different halves (one black on the right and the other black on the left). You think they would like that, they could use each other for mirrors. Oh, and one oreo was the Joker.

(geek) "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"  (/geek)

Hinter: The counter technobabble for your neutronium spheres idea is that the deflector sheilds are much more effective against physical debris at warp speeds... that's what they were invented for after all.  

One could also point out that 'sandcasters' SHOULD be the weapon of choice in FTL 'dogfights', but they obviously aren't in Star Trek for good reasons... they don't work, or tactics have moved beyond them for some reason. (deflector sheilds).

Quote from: SpikeHinter: The counter technobabble for your neutronium spheres idea is that the deflector sheilds are much more effective against physical debris at warp speeds... that's what they were invented for after all.  

One could also point out that 'sandcasters' SHOULD be the weapon of choice in FTL 'dogfights', but they obviously aren't in Star Trek for good reasons... they don't work, or tactics have moved beyond them for some reason. (deflector sheilds).

I doubt that there is enough energy in any starship to counter an impact of an object with the density of neutronium at 219 times the speed of light. Interstellar dust is one thing, tennis ball size objects with a mass of several tons is a different matter entirely.

Still, this is the kind of problem where the GM would just have to say "No. That does not work because I say so." Personally, I do not think it is "calculated to break the setting" just a good solution given available tools.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI doubt that there is enough energy in any starship to counter an impact of an object with the density of neutronium at 219 times the speed of light. Interstellar dust is one thing, tennis ball size objects with a mass of several tons is a different matter entirely.

Still, this is the kind of problem where the GM would just have to say "No. That does not work because I say so." Personally, I do not think it is "calculated to break the setting" just a good solution given available tools.

Bill

Umm, starships are powered by matter/anti-matter reactors.  I'm willing to believe that kind of power output can do a lot.

Quote from: SpikeHinter: The counter technobabble for your neutronium spheres idea is that the deflector sheilds are much more effective against physical debris at warp speeds... that's what they were invented for after all.  

One could also point out that 'sandcasters' SHOULD be the weapon of choice in FTL 'dogfights', but they obviously aren't in Star Trek for good reasons... they don't work, or tactics have moved beyond them for some reason. (deflector sheilds).

 Damn!! I SO wish I was running a TREK game right now, this week.  I'd steal that 'sandcasters'  thing and put it into the game as a "What The Fuck?" moment.

 Either the technology moved on....or after so many decades  they no longer have ways around that because they forgot about  the possibility of that defense.
COMMANDER:
"Science Officer, why aren't our beam weapons effective ? "
SCIENCE OFFICER:
 "There appear to be partuculate matter in the billions  that is rendering our weapon ineffective."
 COMMANDER :
 "They shot SAND at us ??!!?"

 You get the idea.

Quote from: RedFoxUmm, starships are powered by matter/anti-matter reactors.  I'm willing to believe that kind of power output can do a lot.

Agreed. However, there is a limit to their power generation...um, yeah, I have the same issue.

That said, they have beam energy weapons that can defeat the shields. Interstellar dust would be diverted (I believe stated in Enterprise and Voyager and possibly even Next Gen) by magnetic fields. Essentially, causing the dust to flow around.

Now, I was not suggesting you through dust at them. Neutronium is hyper dense. It is pur neutrons tightly packed in a fixed lattice. Teenis balls of this stuff would be formidable in rail guns but not practical since accellerating them to an effective velocity would not be feasible. However, if you could essentially materialize them with a relative v of 0 so that a ship moving at 219 times c you end up making a terrible boom. Even ST would not be able to handle that. Also, remember, I am not talking 1 but say, 50 million. Not all are going to hit but you would expect multiple hits at incredible velocities. Heck, the pursuing ship would not even see the balls before they were in their face.

Not trying to bust chops. I am enjoying the back and forth but I really think this is a deadly strategy. Many others could be applied but aren't because it would not make good tv.

I just saw part of a DS9 which is an excellent example. You had a good 15 seconds warning that a satellite was going to fire on a warp capable shuttle. Why did the not go to warp? Heck, they could even have kept examining the planet from the other side. However,the writer needed them on the planet and had to kill the holy person with them. In an RPG you would have to change that to be fired upon before you know it which is fine but one of the differences I have been trying to point out between stories and games. If a player has a tool, he should be expected that he will use it.

Again, just my silly observations on the matter.

Bill
(As an aside, do you ever notice that it is often difficult to have a discussion on this site vs an argument? I mean, it seems our first take is that our fav whatever is being attacked. I never meant this thread as an attack on ST but as a discussion on how to deal with inconsistent story elements in tradition RPGs. For the record, I think the thread has come around and posts from Koltar, Redfox and Clash are right on, good discussion stuff.)

Quote from: HinterWeltOh, and one oreo was the Joker.

wasn't it frank gorshim, the riddler?

:raise:

Quote from: beeberwasn't it frank gorshim, the riddler?

:raise:

Oh, yes, you are correct sir. Got my campy batman mixed up.

Thanks,
Bill

Well, Hinter, I'm not defending Trek by any means, but if the player were to suggest that Neutronium is too dense to be deflected then you have to point out the power requirements to make the stuff and the difficulties faced by the Enterprise when the tennis balls fall through several decks, wrecking the replicators in the process....



But I agree with out, Often Trek used damn sloppy writing and it can make playing it as a game hard.

More ideas , some partially already used somewhere :

 The player group has to rescue a lost child in the tunnels of Janus VII  - the planet where the race of Horta live.  This takes place maybe 30 to 40 years after the classic show episode . The Horta can beplayed as NPCs...they are willing to help search - but their burning method of making new tunnels could be a problem...plus the still somewhat difficult language barrier.


2) The players are Star Fleet veterans reluctantly reactivated during the Dominon War . (Things are going that BADLY. ) Reluctant as in these people thought the war wasn't going to touch them or their worlds and they may be as far as 20 years after the Starfleet retirewment age. They are the crew of 3 to 4 Runabout -style ships intended to guard a convoy of merchant ships... then the Cardassians attack.....Chaos /all hell breaks loose...

3) The players are a team of Starfleet Corps of Enginers or Salvage team. This takes place immediately after the events of STAR TREK:GENERATIONS. The team has to get the old saucer section of the Enterprise flight-worthy, fly it slowly on impulse out of the star system so that the primitive culture bnearby doesn't notice.
 The player characters are all tech-types...not normally trained for combat or are Private contractors that Starfleet normally trusts.
 There is a waiting temporary warp ring waiting at the edge of the star system to take the saucer to the nearest starbase/shipyard.
Unknown to the players - there are Piratews waiting to try and steal the saucer to either sell it or convert it for their own use. (Or it could be Klingon allies of the Duras sisters, or Ronulans...etc..)


- Ed C.

Back when this thread was first active.... My manager at work was thinking of starting an RPG campaign setduring or just after the series STAR TREK:ENTERPRISE.

I asked him about it yesterday - and he said he just has got too much going on with the current campaigns he is in as a player  to start this.
 For awhile there he was really enthused. He even designed an Endeavour ship crew patch to use in the game.

I still think that is a good time period to explore - the era between ENTERPRISE and the Original Series.

 Its very "PRO-HUMANS" as the good guys ...and we can overcome almost anjy obstacle if we put our minds to it .

 Also, this vid always cheers me up :
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUmO-ELaR_o

 Gotta have faith to believe....you can reach any star.


- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarBack when this thread was first active.... My manager at work was thinking of starting an RPG campaign setduring or just after the series STAR TREK:ENTERPRISE.

I asked him about it yesterday - and he said he just has got too much going on with the current campaigns he is in as a player  to start this.
 For awhile there he was really enthused. He even designed an Endeavour ship crew patch to use in the game.

I still think that is a good time period to explore - the era between ENTERPRISE and the Original Series.

 Its very "PRO-HUMANS" as the good guys ...and we can overcome almost anjy obstacle if we put our minds to it .

 Also, this vid always cheers me up :
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUmO-ELaR_o

 Gotta have faith to believe....you can reach any star.


- Ed C.

First of, Ed, you need help. That theme song sucked!!!!!

As for the time period, hrm, must say I do like it but for different reasons. I prefer the underdog aspect of the scrappy little starfleet and the alternative solutions it forces on the story. The Kirk Trek always struck me as being equals facing off, more of a cold war sort of thing. Enterprise strikes me as more of a facing what we can and running from what we must.

That said, I think you kind of described most of the ST universe. It has always struck me as a place where the rally cry was "We shall over come by routing auxiliary power through the main deflector!".

Bill