Some perspective on the gaming community ca. 1977

[Settembrini]

This list makes a lot of sense as they are all Sci-Fi or Fantasy, which the wargaming community had some problems with. At least my reading of Playing at the World suggests the enmity was larger than I had imagined.

[Just Another Snake Cult]

Cool thread!

I remember that the AH Starship Troopers game had really decent "Mainstream penetration"- i.e I would see it for sale in stationery shops, non-geek book and toys stores, and other places that didn't usually carry wargames. Despite this I somehow never owned or played it.

[soltakss]

The only one of those I have played is Stellar Conquest, a really fun strategic board game.

But, I only started playing RPGs in 1982, so missed the 1977 boat.

[Larsdangly]

Okay, Been meaning to do it anyway, I'll put up a review of Strategy I, Published by SPI games in 1971. I think this was the second best wargame I ever owned, ranking second only to Squad Leader, the unrivaled WWII squad level war game published by Avalon Hill in 1977

Strategy One @ boardgamegeek
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/8362/strategy-i

I'll post my review in the reviews section, but do have a few choice comments for this quickie 1977 flashback thread.

I lucked out just before Christmas and managed to pick up a very good condition copy of Strategy I off of eBay for only $45. Been actively looking for this for over a decade now and haven't been able to find a copy for less than one hundred dollars. There were not many in the original print run I gather... and it is a very rare game.

It was one of the first monster war games, featuring a two panel 28"x42" continental map for providing almost eight square feet of gaming space. It was one of the first multi-player wargames which featured eight factions each having 112 counters including infantry, mechanized infantry, cavalry armor, artillery, headquarters, supply units, aircraft (fighters, and bombers, and tranports, as well as airfields, and factories.  The rules included plenty of variant rules, there is rules for recreating battles ranged from the ancient period of the Greeks/Romans all the way through to the modern age which was the 1960's. The Modern rules includes rules for combat, supply, manufacturing, biological weapons, and nuclear weapons including ICBMs.

Everything about this game is scaled big. The rules book was printed with typewriter typed 10 point font on sheets which were 21.5" x 10.75" which were then folded and stapled to produce an oversized 10.25"x10.75" rules book. Included were (see photos) also blank 11"x14" Strategy I conference maps, so the players could form up teams when it wasn't their turn and discuss strategy and tactics and mark out their military campaigns and battle plans that they were attempting to defeat their foes with. This alone gives this game uber massive geek cred. A multi-player wargame where you could host secret battle strategy sessions when it wasn't even your turn!

The game featured two sets of battle results using d6's and the popular combat results tables. The tables are labeled 1-10, but that is because there was plenty of modifiers included in the rules, penalties for terrain, and bonuses for terrain and combat style. No one even used d10's when this game was published. Finally there is an Errata table.

A few photos for you real quick tonite, and I'll include even more detail in the official review that will be posted here on the RPGsite in the next few days.

Imgur Archive for Strategy I
http://imgur.com/a/OJYbH

Woah... That is cool! It is like a strategic scale Panzer Blitz

[Larsdangly]

The same issue's introductory editorial also notes that The Dragon is not for war games - those are supposed to go to TSR's house magazine on that subject (Little Wars). So, based on this list, the implication is that they thought of tactical and strategy board games involving any element of fantasy or science fiction as being in The Dragon's wheel house. That gives you some insight into where roleplaying games sat in the broad spectrum of games in general.

[Herne's Son]

OGRE is a must try game. It's design genius.

Monsters! Monsters! is a Tunnels & Trolls variant where you play the Monsters! It is lots of fun, but needs a rewrite for 2017. I have run several one-shots of M!M! over the years at cons, especially my "Mordor: the Morning After" adventure where the various beasties who survive after Sauron gets whacked have to decide WTF to do now. I have played in a few M!M! games and they have mostly been run for laughs, AKA "Monster Toon"

I picked up Deluxe Tunnels & Trolls recently, and have been loving it tons. Notably, it has rules baked in to it for running monster PCs of all sorts; from kobolds to dragons! I've never read M!M!, so I'm not sure how much other stuff there is in it aside from the game rules and rules for playing monster PCs. Does it go into stuff like setting up lairs and traps for killing humans?

[chirine ba kal]

This list makes a lot of sense as they are all Sci-Fi or Fantasy, which the wargaming community had some problems with. At least my reading of Playing at the World suggests the enmity was larger than I had imagined.

Jon doesn't tell the half of it. I got out of historicals because of the way Dave and Gary got crapped on by the 'real' gamers for their work.

[David Johansen]

Really, gate keeping and one true wayism are nails in the coffin of any hobby community.  They need to go.

[Spinachcat]

Does it go into stuff like setting up lairs and traps for killing humans?

Sadly not much, if any. That would be great stuff for a M!M! reboot.

[Omega]

Sadly not much, if any. That would be great stuff for a M!M! reboot.

Apparently they re-released M!M a year ot two ago.

[GameDaddy]

Jon doesn't tell the half of it. I got out of historicals because of the way Dave and Gary got crapped on by the 'real' gamers for their work.

Really, gate keeping and one true wayism are nails in the coffin of any hobby community.  They need to go.

^^ This pretty much. I used to go to Ghenghis Con from the late 70's thru the early-mid 80's to play wargames competitively, and RPGs were secondary, but by 1982, I was playing far more RPG games at conventions than wargames.  It wasn't that I didn't like wargames, because I did. However, I liked playing with a group and having us all survive and win the game together, even better.

The hardcore wargamers took that the wrong way though, and took that as a personal attack on wargaming. They responded by attacking RPGs, being rude to RPG players, and playing groups directly, not locally, but at the regional and national game shows. While there were plenty of award categories for new wargames, there seemed to be none for RPGs at the Colorado regional game shows. When D&D and AD&D split in 1980 that was a big blow, just like what the wargamers had done to D&D So I stopped going to conventions entirely in 1985, even though I did attend Ghengis Con in 1983 and 1984. After that I just played RPGs with my friends.

Even at Ghengis Con in 83 and 84 I didn't win any RPG awards because there were no running or playing in D&D games, and no rewards for playing AD&D or other RPGs. I always managed to rank in the top ten players for Squad Leader in the state, and finished my best year in 1980, ranked 3rd. The last Ghengis Con I attended in 1984, Also won the Civil War Miniatures tournament by winning two of three battles of the 1865 Appomattax Campaign, the Battle of Five Forks and the Battle of Amelia Courthouse in April of 1865 (Robert E Lee, did win at Five Forks, however didn't win at Amelia Courthouse), I managed to win both battles playing as General George Pickett under Lee. I remember this well, because a single charge from one of my understrength Alabama Infantry regiments destroyed a Union battery that had been shelling the entire main battle line at Amelia Courthouse, and then routed the Yankee Cavalry reserve regiment that was equipped with Henry Repeating Rifles, that was moved up to stop my flanking attack. By the end of the Battle both union flanks had been turned, and the Army of the Potomac was forced to withdraw because they were almost completely encircled. Had Lee won, The Civil War might have continued until the Union settled for peace because people were getting weary of a war that simply continued with super high casualties. Instead what really happened, less than three weeks later, Robert E. Lee surrendered the Army of Northern Virginia to Grant, and effectively ended the Civil War.

I didn't win any RPG awards that year (don't remember there being any), but I did play Rolemaster for the first time, and liked it quite a bit. It would be fifteen years before I would attend another gaming convention because of all the Grogtard RPG hating, and even moreso because the RPGA wouldn't allow me to run D&D gaming events, and were being as stupid as the grognards.

[Herne's Son]

Apparently they re-released M!M a year ot two ago.

Was it a new edition? Or a reprint of the older version?

[Omega]

Was it a new edition? Or a reprint of the older version?

I think it was a reprint. Which to me is a good thing. Im really sick and tired of the idiotic incompatible edition treadmill.

[Larsdangly]

I think it was a reprint. Which to me is a good thing. Im really sick and tired of the idiotic incompatible edition treadmill.

Well put. Can we inaugurate you at the end of this week?

[finarvyn]

Wow, am I the only one that played SPI's Sorcerer!?

It was a strange game, clearly influenced a bit by Titan (or maybe the other way around?). The board was a dazzle-happy inducing hex grid, with 7 colors, and grey (non-magic) hexes where humanity still dwelled. You played a sorcerer (specializing in one or more colors), summoning monsters. Combat was based around your color of monster, the color of your enemy, and the hex you were (eg, a yellow monster in a yellow hex was brutal good).

There were a number of scenarios (par for the course for games of that era), and they were pretty good, including a "solo" scenario where you had to run around from city to city and not get squashed. Good times.

Nope. I've played it and actually own two copies. As much fun as the actual game is, I had even more fun mixing the units with historical armies from PRESTAGS since the unit scale seemed to match up well.