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Some brutal (self?)criticism of the "indie" scene

Started by ArrozConLeche, November 04, 2015, 02:06:14 PM

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Gronan of Simmerya

#45
November 05, 2015, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: Bren;863258What and short circuit a few Internet slap fests and navel gazing blog posts. What would we do with our free time then?

Get drunk, dance with girls, and listen to some extremely evil music?
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Ravenswing

#46
November 05, 2015, 11:39:10 PM
Quote from: tenbones;863071Anyone that does anything creatively and professionally especially regarding things for entertainment purposes should develop a thick skin for criticism.
Should be engraved in platinum over the computer of anyone who fancies a try for professional glory as a writer, in ANY field.

One of my guilty pleasures is fanfiction.net.  If the writer of a fic I'm reading claims to be polishing up a piece for publication, I give a comprehensive review.  I doubt many would be surprised that I'm often caustic regarding pervasive screwups on spelling, punctuation, grammar and style.  I've long since ceased to be surprised how many purportedly aspiring professionals respond in PM with bitter denunciations, often citing their hundreds of fawning reviews.  I'm sometimes curious as to whether they think a professional editor, with his or her job on the line for a wrong guess, would be kinder.  

Quote from: Phillip;863091It seems that fewer still do the blind testing -- testing by people with no prior involvement in the project -- that goes a long way toward cleaning up problems that otherwise might not even be noticed.
+1 the second.  My main contribution to the GURPS (non-supernatural) rules as a blindtester, as far as I know, was to the cold weather survival rules, the perspective of a native Texan being understandably different from that of a fellow who's done midwinter camping in northern Maine.

By contrast, when I playtested a winter mountaineering adventure, however well read I am, I've never done that ... how the hell do I know how fast is reasonable / suicidal to climb a 500' 80 degree slope in light snow?   One of my players was a cold-weather technical rockclimber, however, and I'd check with him from time to time to ensure I was getting the verisimilitude right.
This was a cool site, until it became an echo chamber for whiners screeching about how the "Evul SJWs are TAKING OVAH!!!" every time any RPG book included a non-"traditional" NPC or concept, or their MAGA peeners got in a twist. You're in luck, drama queens: the Taliban is hiring.

Omega

#47
November 06, 2015, 12:33:26 AM Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 12:39:34 AM by Omega
Quote from: tenbones;863179"I've literally taught BAZILLIONS of people how to make games!!! I am a Professor of Gaming!" - which might make her the source of all of Jason's problems. That's where all these shitty games are coming from!

OMG... she's the Boss of this level... /gasp!

Yeah, there is a guy teaching game design who despises minis in games. Never fails to make a dig about playing with those "dolls". And another jackass designer who was telling new designers that its perfectly fine to steal from other designers and sell it. During PLAYTEST! Another good one is some designers will tell you to pump out a bung of half assed games to get a feel for game design. What that means is you now have on your resume a bunch of half assed games. And they dont.

Bren

#48
November 06, 2015, 12:36:18 AM
Quote from: Omega;863269Yeah, there is a guy teaching game design who despises minis in games. Never fails to make a dig about playing with those "dolls".
He's still upset that as a child he wasn't allowed to have any G.I. Joe or Captain Action figures.
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

Omega

#49
November 06, 2015, 12:55:26 AM
Quote from: Bren;863270He's still upset that as a child he wasn't allowed to have any G.I. Joe or Captain Action figures.

He did it on TV too. The news interviewers glanced at him like he was insane.

Simlasa

#50
November 06, 2015, 01:34:08 AM Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 07:47:05 AM by Simlasa
This discussion brings to mind Powerkill... an 'indie' game that, to me, didn't actually seem intended to be played but instead existed as a commentary on mainstream gaming tropes.

I can't remember the title but I read one game from RPGNow that had the designer's preamble talking about how he'd actually never played it and wasn't sure anyone could play it... but invited anyone who tried to let him know how it went.

Ravenswing

#51
November 06, 2015, 01:44:57 AM
Quote from: Omega;863269Another good one is some designers will tell you to pump out a bung of half assed games to get a feel for game design. What that means is you now have on your resume a bunch of half assed games. And they dont.
This might be me being naive, but wouldn't it be better to attempt to write GOOD games?

Beyond that, this isn't any huge kind of effing mystery.  The notion that you have to have written a game to have a feel for game design is like claiming you have to have written a script to know if a dramatic presentation is any good or not.  Any grognard has a sense (however idiosyncratic) for what makes a good game or a bad game, and what elements in combination work and which don't.
This was a cool site, until it became an echo chamber for whiners screeching about how the "Evul SJWs are TAKING OVAH!!!" every time any RPG book included a non-"traditional" NPC or concept, or their MAGA peeners got in a twist. You're in luck, drama queens: the Taliban is hiring.

Necrozius

#52
November 06, 2015, 07:44:11 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;863266Get drunk, dance with girls, and listen to some extremely evil music?

In retrospect, experiencing these three activities (especially all at the same time) provided much inspiration for my GMing abilities.

Tod13

#53
November 06, 2015, 08:56:53 AM
Quote from: Bren;863258What and short circuit a few Internet slap fests and navel gazing blog posts. What would we do with our free time then?

LOL Good start to the morning. :D

Future Villain Band

#54
November 06, 2015, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Simlasa;863274This discussion brings to mind Powerkill... an 'indie' game that, to me, didn't actually seem intended to be played but instead existed as a commentary on mainstream gaming tropes.

I can't remember the title but I read one game from RPGNow that had the designer's preamble talking about how he'd actually never played it and wasn't sure anyone could play it... but invited anyone who tried to let him know how it went.

I'd separate out Powerkill from normal game discussion.  It was a John Tynes game, and it really was just meant as an essay for him to work through some ideas or as a tool to dissect play.  Tynes' credibility as a game designer/writer is pretty above reproach, for my money, and I'd rather read a thought experiment from him or Robin Laws or Greg Costikyan over actual games by a dozen other authors.

Simlasa

#55
November 06, 2015, 01:26:32 PM Last Edit: November 06, 2015, 01:34:51 PM by Simlasa
Quote from: Future Villain Band;863305I'd separate out Powerkill from normal game discussion.  It was a John Tynes game, and it really was just meant as an essay for him to work through some ideas or as a tool to dissect play.
Still, it was sold as a game... I've got a copy on the flip side of Puppetland. I'm not even bothered by it, I thought it was at least a bit interesting, and I've liked other stuff by him. I took the quotes in the OP to be about more than just games that were poorly playtested or not playtested at all, that it was aimed at games that, like Power Kill, weren't really intended to be played but were done more as exercises and experiments.

Doughdee222

#56
November 06, 2015, 06:33:36 PM
Am I the only person, when I see Future Villain Band my mind says "Future Bond Villain"?

Bedrockbrendan

#57
November 06, 2015, 06:40:16 PM
Quote from: Doughdee222;863321Am I the only person, when I see Future Villain Band my mind says "Future Bond Villain"?

That is how I always read his name.

Bren

#58
November 06, 2015, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;863323That is how I always read his name.
Me three.
Currently running: Runequest in Glorantha + Call of Cthulhu   Currently playing: D&D 5E + RQ
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan owes me bee

flyingmice

#59
November 06, 2015, 08:04:22 PM
Quote from: Bren;863326Me three.

You mean it's *BAND* villain? Huh!

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT
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