So I'm with a new group. I'm a player this time. We're playing BRP Call of Cthulhu. At one point in the past, I found a great article for players about how to approach solving mysteries. It seems like I may have found another bit of good advice on the web, too.

Does that ring any bells for anyone? I think the article compared solving mysteries to dungeon crawls.

Thanks!

Seanchai

Mysteries are tricky. There are various ways of doing them but I really don't what the best way to do them. Ideally what one wants from an investigation is that sense of steady progress in which the player characters cleverly piece together various clues to reveal a surprising bigger picture. But it is so easy for an investigation to go wrong, to stall and become a frustrating "let's guess what's on the GM notes" or even "if we wait long enough the GM will have to give us some more clues" sort of game.

Some approaches include:

Do it properly!
Prepare the game carefully with well thought out clues, plenty of paths the players can go through to solve it and just got a hope the players don't some mess it up.

Do it with mirrors!
As a GM you present all the trappings of a conventional mystery but behind the scenes you just make it up as you go along. So whatever theory the players end up with magically turns out to be the right one. Just make sure the player don't catch on or the whole experience might feel cheapened.

It's not about the mystery at all!
Sure, it's a mystery but actually in game you don't make players work for the clues. The challenge of the game will come from the chases, the moral dilemmas and fight scenes. The information related to investigation however is treated as part of the narrative rather a reward for successful skill roll or clever plan. That's sort of the approach the Gumshoe system (Trail of Cthulhu) takes.  

Collaborate!
It is possible to run a fully improvised game, even a mystery, in which the players are aware that there is no backstory but in which everyone contributes to making the story as you go along. You still need some sort of game mechanic, either  a competitive roll or spending a resource or something to determine at any one point who get's to decide what. Some might say this isn't really roleplaying game anymore, but they said the same thing about the Amber Diceless Rpg when it first came out.

These are broadly the four approaches I can think of. I am not 100% sold by any of them, though "Doing it with mirrors" I would say is my least favorite. If you do find a good articel on the subject I'd been interested in reading it.

Quote from: Soylent Green;281072Mysteries are tricky. There are various ways of doing them but I really don't what the best way to do them. Ideally what one wants from an investigation is that sense of steady progress in which the player characters cleverly piece together various clues to reveal a surprising bigger picture. But it is so easy for an investigation to go wrong, to stall and become a frustrating "let's guess what's on the GM notes" or even "if we wait long enough the GM will have to give us some more clues" sort of game.

Some approaches include:

Do it properly!
Prepare the game carefully with well thought out clues, plenty of paths the players can go through to solve it and just got a hope the players don't some mess it up.

Obviously, flexibility is important, but since I like mysteries in general I think this would be fun as a player. As a GM, I'd have to find the right players... There lies the difficulty, I believe.

Quote from: Soylent Green;281072Do it with mirrors!
As a GM you present all the trappings of a conventional mystery but behind the scenes you just make it up as you go along. So whatever theory the players end up with magically turns out to be the right one. Just make sure the player don't catch on or the whole experience might feel cheapened.

That's definitely tough and success largely depends on the gaming group, but sounds like fun too!

Quote from: Soylent Green;281072It's not about the mystery at all!
Sure, it's a mystery but actually in game you don't make players work for the clues. The challenge of the game will come from the chases, the moral dilemmas and fight scenes. The information related to investigation however is treated as part of the narrative rather a reward for successful skill roll or clever plan. That's sort of the approach the Gumshoe system (Trail of Cthulhu) takes.

That's probably how I would run Cthulhu... Present clues progressively and offer the players the realization of what is going on (before the characters do) while running intensifying scenes.

Quote from: Soylent Green;281072Collaborate!
It is possible to run a fully improvised game, even a mystery, in which the players are aware that there is no backstory but in which everyone contributes to making the story as you go along. You still need some sort of game mechanic, either  a competitive roll or spending a resource or something to determine at any one point who get's to decide what. Some might say this isn't really roleplaying game anymore, but they said the same thing about the Amber Diceless Rpg when it first came out.

Now that is interesting and a great way to involve some of the players who are not necessarily interested in solving mysteries by looking for clues and trailing the killer.
The system that is most suitable for this way of handling mysteries is Houses of the Blooded, in my opinion.
The Narrator provides the body, the players provide the clues/motive/mystery... Then the group unfolds the social drama of a murder mystery.
This can of course easily be transposed to any sort of mystery, in which group storytelling exercises solve everything. It's enjoyable and suitable for most.

Nicely done, Soylent Green.

I only find mysteries interesting and enjoyable if there is an actual objective answer to the mystery that the GM knows.

For me, mysteries are about working out what's going on, if what's going on is whatever we make up, that just doesn't work for me personally.

As for solving them, talk to people.  A well written mystery adventure will not be dependent on skill rolls for success, though they may help, it will be dependent on lots of rp with NPCs many of whom may know something that will help you unravel the whole picture.

I love mystery plots, I often run them, and I enjoy playing them, but they can be tricky and there has to be an acceptance that sometimes you may just not win.  In the Te Deum game I sometimes play in recently, there's a lot of conspiratorial stuff and sometimes we never do work out what was going on, we just accept that we win some and lose some.

Quote from: Seanchai;281059So I'm with a new group. I'm a player this time. We're playing BRP Call of Cthulhu. At one point in the past, I found a great article for players about how to approach solving mysteries. It seems like I may have found another bit of good advice on the web, too.

Does that ring any bells for anyone? I think the article compared solving mysteries to dungeon crawls.

Thanks!

Seanchai

S John Ross may have written on this, it could be worth checking his site to see if he wrote the article you're thinking of.

There is also the possibility of running a game in which you plan to reveal something akin to a mystery (who the real villain is pulling the strings is a classic, of course).

At this point, you drop clues here and there throughout the campaign. Eventually, the big reveal comes into play and either blows the PCs away, or it doesn't. Usually, it's quite satisfying to build on it enough that the reveal is something meaningful.

I could see this being used in Cthulhu. The investigators go through the campaign, perhaps proving or disproving a mysterious occult phenomenon. As they go along, they find evidence of scientific explanations and by the time the last chapter of the campaign unfolds, they might come to the realization that other things they might not have been focusing on has built up evidence proving that their clues have been tempered with and that tracks had been covered... Finally, a confrontation with the culprits.
Sounds like fun to me!

Quote from: Balbinus;281158I only find mysteries interesting and enjoyable if there is an actual objective answer to the mystery that the GM knows.

I'm the same way.

Quote from: Balbinus;281159S John Ross may have written on this, it could be worth checking his site to see if he wrote the article you're thinking of.

My GoogleFu is no good.


I think what I'll do is start working on a time line of events and then look for connections between people, places, and events.

Seanchai

What I do for mysteries is treat them as an adventure I'm writing backwards. I start with the crime (sometimes with the cover-up of the crime), then go backwards through the question "How'd it happen?" until I end up at the start.

As I go, I pick pieces of evidence that could have been left at each stage, whether memories of witnesses, physical evidence, etc. I find a good hook and a couple of pieces of evidence that might get the PCs interested, and use that to get them involved.

So far, it's worked pretty well as a technique.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;281342What I do for mysteries is treat them as an adventure I'm writing backwards. I start with the crime (sometimes with the cover-up of the crime), then go backwards through the question "How'd it happen?" until I end up at the start.

As I go, I pick pieces of evidence that could have been left at each stage, whether memories of witnesses, physical evidence, etc. I find a good hook and a couple of pieces of evidence that might get the PCs interested, and use that to get them involved.

So far, it's worked pretty well as a technique.

I imagine that's just how a writer would do it. Nice work!