The Amber books are another great example. I've used these two books even WAY more than my old palladium books (last time I ran anything Palladium in a serious way was over 12 years ago, but I've been using my Amber books almost non-stop for the last decade and a half straight).

They're softcover, and have vastly outlasted hardcover books that I used much less.

RPGPundit

We'd all like our books to be better quality Pundit. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. Sometimes you get a book back from the printer and it's flawed. The printer admits it's flawed and offers to do a reprint free of charge.

Now you're in a position where you're screwed either way. Delay a book whose earnings you are counting on or go with a flawed book.

In cases of wear and tear, often whether you've gotten a good deal on a print run or been ripped off isn't apparent until the book is in people's hands.

So book quality is something we wrestle with all the time. But on the subject of whether or not publishers should CHOOSE to print softcovers or hardcovers, the market has more or less spoken.

In general (and of course things like quality and timing play roles too) a book will better if it's hardcover, better if it's in color, better if it's big and meaty, better if it's licensed.

Combine all of those and your chances improve even more.

Of course some publishers just have a devoted fan base and could print their books on cardboard with crayon art and their fans would line up to buy it.

And even those publishers have put out licensed books with color art on occasion.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckOf course some publishers just have a devoted fan base and could print their books on cardboard with crayon art and their fans would line up to buy it.

Don't believe the man? Do a Google search for "Grontar the Frutang"

Quote from: jdrakehDon't believe the man? Do a Google search for "Grontar the Frutang"

Lol. Obviously I was being too subtle

I was actually thinking of Palladium when I said that. I mean, part of Pundit's central thesis in this thread is that more people should make books like Palladium because they sell.

My counter-thesis is that Palladium has a dedicated fanbase that buys their books IN SPITE OF, not because of, the books' production quality, so that isn't a very good example.

And even Palladium has done some licensed books before, which I'd guess were some of the best selling books they've ever had. I certainly loved the old TMNT game.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckMy counter-thesis is that Palladium has a dedicated fanbase that buys their books IN SPITE OF, not because of, the books' production quality. . .

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. Kevin could literally crap on piece of cardstock, call it a game, and a great many Palladium fans would buy it. Having been a Palladium fan for ages, I know (I was never that much of a fan, though I personally knew several folks who were). Of course, the same can be said of any company with a notoriously. . . uhm. . . enthusiastic fanbase.

I still see die-hard TSR fans defend the "Complete" books as brilliant products, despite several TSR employees having gone on record as saying these very same products were huge money pits that sold very poorly and, ultimately, alienated a large portion of the more conservative fanbase (i.e., they were poor products, even by the publisher's standards).

And, of course, somebody keeps buying enough World of Synnibarr books to warrant continued print runs :eek:

Fans.

Can't survive without out 'em, can't shoot 'em in the face. Or maybe you can, but it's not a very good idea

Couldn't those books have been brilliant and sold poorly?

Spiral bound?  Amateur shit, straight out of Kinkos.
Softcover? Not enough cash to play in the big leagues.
Hardcover? Now you're able to sit at the grown-ups table.

Quote from: droogCouldn't those books have been brilliant and sold poorly?

Sure, but outside of die-hard fans, this isn't the general concensus.

Quote from: droogCouldn't those books have been brilliant and sold poorly?

They could have been, but in most people's opinion they weren't.

I thought a couple were good (the ones written by Aaron Allston oddly enough), but unfortunately, if two of a line is good and a company makes almost a dozen, that's a bad thing.

I bow to your knowledge, gentlemen.

Quote from: droogI bow to your knowledge, gentlemen.

It's less real knowledge than it is conventional wisdom gleaned through stupid amounts of time spent browsing RPG forums and e-groups. Seriously, for somebody who only does occasional error checking for publishers, I spend far too much time tracking consumer complaints

Quote from: RPGPunditMy 1st Edition AD&D DMG is falling to pieces ...

That's shocking.  The 1e AD&D hardbacks were incredibly well made (at least up until Unearthed Arcana, which had horrible binding).  You must have abused that DMG horribly.

All of my 1e AD&D hardbacks are in good shape.  The bindings looks like they would last 1000 years.

The same cannot be said for my softcovers of similar age.

Having collected RPG books for 26 years now, hardcover books definitely age better.

If a RPG is contained within a single book, I definitely prefer hardcover.  If I need to use 3+ books, then softcover starts to look appealing.

So what about stapled softcover books in boxes? Quite unlikely to lose their bindings, but out of their boxes they're a bit flimsy. And who carries boxes to the game?

Quote from: SosthenesSo what about stapled softcover books in boxes? Quite unlikely to lose their bindings, but out of their boxes they're a bit flimsy. And who carries boxes to the game?

Yeah, I mention saddle-stitched books a bit further up the thread. And you're right -- they do seem more durable than perfect-bound softcovers do (even out of the box). I have stacks of old FR1e modules that are still in one piece after more than 20 years, when most perfect-bound softcovers that I have owned are totally thrashed after less than ten years of regular use.

Quote from: AkrasiaThat's shocking.  The 1e AD&D hardbacks were incredibly well made (at least up until Unearthed Arcana, which had horrible binding).  You must have abused that DMG horribly.

I'm on my second PHB and DMG because as a kid I used my first to unto death.