Or if none of them, which came closest?
For the purposes of this thread incidentally I don't care if people have different definitions of pulp or if some of those definitions are plainly wrong by some criteria, if folk turning up to play would recognise it as some form of pulp that's good enough for me. That said, I'd like to leave out sword and sorcery and wierd horror, as otherwise the thread is just too broad.
Pulp games I know of, in no particular order of preference:
Adventure!
Hollow Earth Expedition
Dime Adventures (have I got that name right?)
Spirit of the Century
Against the Reich, a supplement for octaNe
Pulp Hero
Gurps Pulp something or other, not one of my favourites at all actually
Daredevil (way too rules heavy for me personally)
I'm sure I'm missing hundreds.
Then there's games which aren't pulp per se, but which naturally tend to support it well. Stuff like D6 Adventure, Savage Worlds, Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes.
So, which pulp game does it for you and most importantly of all why and why is playing a pulp campaign with that game fun for you?
I ran a very successful pulp action game with True20, by limiting the adept role to npcs and basically leaving everything else as it was. That said, I had to do all the vehicle stuff myself, but it didn't really have a negative impact on the game. We ran the gamut from detective action, to high seas adventure to lost worlds and it worked just fine.
I have HEX and, although it is pretty to look at, it does nothing for me as a game or a setting.
Spirit of the Century does it for us with some minor modifications (simplification of combat basically). Why?
- The universal mechanism of Fate dice + Skill means the game plays fast and without looking anything up during the game. Zoom. That means that players can dream up all kinds of wacky actions to solve a problem and resolving it mechanically is straightforward. Those solutions yell pulp in my ear (ew) so that's good.
- The character gen system ties PCs together elegantly.
- For whatever reason the system seems to let us get from the starting gate to an episode conclusion in one night's play, which suits us well. Might be the GM advice stuff about pacing. Anyway, one "show" games suit the genre for us, misunderstood as that genre is by us, largely.
- Various aspects of the game make every player at my table want to GM which is very cool. So we have four recurring characters and every session one of the players GMs for the remaining three players and their characters. Anytime we don't know wht to do with an evening someone will pipe up with a pitch.
Rolemaster Pulp Adventures actually.
Quote from: BalbinusDime Adventures (have I got that name right?)
I believe you are refering to
Dime Heroes (http://www.pigames.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=43_50_53&products_id=170).
You might also be able to add
Rugged Adventures (http://www.pulpfigures.com/mebob.php?custID=208118251891193875143).
As far as the question. I believe it is how it's run not the rules that are used.
I can use Call of Cthulhu, Dime Heroes or Savage Worlds just as easily as rules "designed" for what is called Pulp Games (and have).
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Yeah, I kind of had the same thought as Greentongue. I've ran pulp games using GURPS and SotC. They both did a decent job. I think the main thing is that your players get the convention and don't spend hours sitting around debating who should sneak up on the guard. The one thing about SotC is that it is structured in such a way that it encourages that kind of play. You don't have to explain it or hint your players along. But GURPS worked well too.
Spirit of the Century.
The whole "character novels" as part of the character generation gets the players nicely invested in the pulp feel, and the aspect-driven nature of the system is very forgiving and flows nicely.
Personally, I love Adventure! But, then again, I haven't played any of the others on your list. I'm very wary of Spirit of the Century, as too many people worship it. ;)
I never played Adventure! but I mined the crap out of it for ideas.
Marvel Superheroes.
Early on, I knew MSPE was going to be my favorite game ever. But when Michael Stackpole went on to write material for Justice Inc, that got me into pulp as a separate genre. That was awfully good. There have been a lot of pulp games since, most of which I've tried to play at least a few times. Most pulp games get it wrong, because the types of stories told in pulp magazines, radio shows, and movie serials--as awesome as the trappings of them are--aren't really all that compatable with the kind of experience most people want in a game. That said, any game with good background material which can support a brisk pace of play can be an excellent pulp game.
It's a lot harder to find players familiar with the source material, familiar with the history of the period, sympathetic to the kinds of characters and stories featured in the pulps, and with an appropriate sense of humor and adventure. I mean--everyone loves rocket packs and villains with trained jaguars--but the nuts and bolts of solving a murder on a long train ride, or just figuring out how to buy bullets or get your shoes shined can be pretty intimidating for players who haven't steeped themselves in it.
Daredevil the game had problems, but I vaguely recall some of those adventures being pretty good. I think MSPE was my best Pulp experience in play; Justice Inc. and Daredevil gave some good material to use but the systems didn't help matters much.
As if it wasn't obvious to people by now, Two Fisted Tales.
RPGPundit
TORG's Nile Empire.
I've had the most fun playing Top secret/SI using the Agent 13 sourcebook.
And GURPS Cliffhangers using the Justice Inc. Land of adventure soucebook.
Honestly? I like SOTC on a read through (and I don't like Fudge), I'm hoping that it plays well when I get to try it. I've played Pulp MSH, Pulp Top Secret S.I, Torg/Nile Empire, and Adventure!, and I think the closest of those that felt "pulpy" in play was Adventure! (mind you that doesn't mean the other experiences were bad, just that Dramatic Editing, and Adventure's focus worked well for me.)
I've really got to dig MSPE out from my basement. That was the first contemporary RPG that I ever encountered and everything about it seemed so cool and fresh to me at the time. I mean the whole game in a single book, un-fantastic images.
How is it that so many of you have your hands on Justice, Inc.? I never see it anywhere.
Justice Inc.
Stripped down HERO works wonders for pulp, I think.
Quote from: walkerpI've really got to dig MSPE out from my basement. That was the first contemporary RPG that I ever encountered and everything about it seemed so cool and fresh to me at the time. I mean the whole game in a single book, un-fantastic images.
How is it that so many of you have your hands on Justice, Inc.? I never see it anywhere.
I bought mine as soon as it came out.
I later ran across a copy in a clearance bin at a game store in hawaii for $5.00 the boxed set w/ lands of adventure.
I like SotC a lot. However, it's not the lightening-fast, ideal for pick-up, infallible fun-in-a-box it's made out to be. Now--that has a lot to do with what a pick-up game is in Stuland.
Based on universally positive experiences with several years of Hong Kong Action Theater!, a pick-up game around here is one where Stu knows the rules, will bring them on a big flip chart, explain them where necessary, and prepare an awesome adventure that highlights specific parts of the rules at specific times. Everyone has a great time because I can and will make them have a great time.
You can't do that with SotC. It actually has a lot of rules, most of which are nicely interrelated, and it requires a great deal of creative player input. If they are unaware of or unclear on some rules, or if they're intimidated by the process, or if they just haven't read that whole big book, yet, you're not going to get the kind of experience the game is capable of facilitating.
I love aspects and a lot of other pieces of Fate--I immediately wrote them in the margins of my Tunnels and Trolls books--and I think the character novels are fantastic. Those are great tools. I think they can be ported successfully into MSPE or other simple, more transparent rules systems. Again, this may only apply in Stuland, but only have a couple players around who have actually read pulps and who are genuinely comfortable in that world. If I run a pulp game, I'm already seriously challenging my players, and I don't necessarily want to compound the challenge by running a game which demands so much from the payers, as well.
That said, if SotC were a space marine game or the Chronicles of Riddick or whatever, my players would probably flip that challenge and kick my ass. Which would be an awesome challenge for me. But maybe that's a project for the summer. Things being as they are, I like pulp wth something a little more straightforward and gm-oriented. Within that framework, there aren't many pulp games I don't like.
I agree very much with Stu's criticisms. SotC becomes a pick-up game once everyone in the group gets how it works (and this can take a few sessions) and the characters are generated. When you do have that foundation, you can run games with little prep and there is lots of potential for interesting game play.
But it doesn't run like that right out of the box as claimed.
Yeah, SotC is not so much "pick up" game inasmuch as it's something you can do in a few spare hours. It is something you can do if you have a good chunk of time with no prep, because you get the players to do the prep. But first session, count on 2 hours of chargen. Chargen in which everyone is involved, talking to each other and generating ideas, but nonetheless, don't expect to sit down and play if you want to use the full chargen.
(But chargen is cool, so you should.)
Quote from: walkerpI agree very much with Stu's criticisms. SotC becomes a pick-up game once everyone in the group gets how it works (and this can take a few sessions) and the characters are generated. When you do have that foundation, you can run games with little prep and there is lots of potential for interesting game play.
But it doesn't run like that right out of the box as claimed.
If you want a true pick-up pulp game, try Dime Heroes from Deep7.
Quote from: BalbinusSo, which pulp game does it for you and most importantly of all why and why is playing a pulp campaign with that game fun for you?
I would have to say right now its Adventure! followed by Hollow Earth Expedition
even though character creation in Adventure can be a bit daunting, at least at first, once you start rolling with it, it is very straight forward. as for play, the use of willpower, facets and inspiration really just feel right. and the "inspired" characters are just the right power level (I have only run "daredevil" level games)
Hollow Earth follows suite, with my biggest grip with it is the all in one combat roll (which is the same gripe I have with the new WoD)
I have also looked at Pulp Hero (too crunchy), a d20 pulp game, but could never find the right combination (d20 cthulhu came close), and I am still waiting on Pulp Cthulhu to make my final judgement
as for the other games (SotC and the like) since Adventure! works for me and the way we play I dont feel I need to branch out
Quote from: walkerpI agree very much with Stu's criticisms. SotC becomes a pick-up game once everyone in the group gets how it works (and this can take a few sessions) and the characters are generated. When you do have that foundation, you can run games with little prep and there is lots of potential for interesting game play.
But it doesn't run like that right out of the box as claimed.
I'm not so sure. First time we played, only one guy had read the rules and I made my character up using one of the templates and a little extrapolation from the GM's chatter - it took a few minutes. In our last sesh we had a new guy who did the same thing. Once that was done, we hit the ground running.
I agree, though, that SOMEONE needs to know the rules before you get started. Is there an RPG where that's not the case?
EDIT: On the topic at hand, I don't much care about pulp or genre emulation. Sorry!
Ned
Spirit of the Century just might be the finest RPG ever written. It definitely is the best pulp RPG ever written. One of the authors of Adventure even said so.
I really like Two Fisted Tales. It leans toward the old-style pulp that I prefer.
-clash
What was so good about Justice, Inc.?
Obviously the quesion is aimed mostly at those who mentioned it...
SotC is really fun. Not just to play a straight pulp game. But you can hack it for lots of other genres too. Westerns, Star Wars, TV show inspired games, etc, etc. A friend of mine wrote a one-shot based on Futurama, using SotC. He also used SotC for a Buckaroo Banzai one-shot. And I'm playing in a Fallout inspired SotC game too, run by another friend. It's pretty versatile.
I will agree, though, that it's not so much of a pick-up game.
I can't say what was so good about Justice, Inc. But my interest in it is that for a while it was one of the few pulp sourcebooks in town, after GURPS Cliffhangers and Adventure!. That's when I first got into pulp and was looking for anything I could get my hands on. Since then, the whole pulp gaming thing has exploded.
Quote from: BalbinusWhat was so good about Justice, Inc.?
Obviously the quesion is aimed mostly at those who mentioned it...
Justice Inc had a great pulp era sourcebook. The new Pulp Hero one is also quite good too, I think. Plus, I think Hero does that type of game well. Crunchy enough to be interesting but not overwealming. And frankly, I loved the J.I. Wierd Talents. :)
I'm surprised no one mentioned Savage Worlds yet.
HEX really isn't my cup of tea, as it is heavily biased towards "Combatant" characters (to the point where all other types of characters are effectively stooges), shooting one of the staples of the Pulp genre (diversity of characters) in the leg.
It tries to mask this, by making half of the templates non-combats, but that gets really absurd if you think about it (especially with the Occult Investigator, who is- for some reason- carrying a pair of nunchucks, without actually knowing how to use them).
Quote from: alexandroI'm surprised no one mentioned Savage Worlds yet.
I believe that Savage Worlds does "Pulp" and does it well. I just don't think that is all it does. So it doesn't actually count as a "Pulp Game".
(I have a short series (http://home.earthlink.net/~djackson24/Delbert5.htm) of Pulp adventures using Savage Worlds.)
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Quote from: CalithenaDaredevil the game had problems, but I vaguely recall some of those adventures being pretty good. I think MSPE was my best Pulp experience in play; Justice Inc. and Daredevil gave some good material to use but the systems didn't help matters much.
Yes, the Daredevil modules were full of cool, and completely resembled pulp adventure tales (right down to the covers).
Sadly, the game system itself was a convoluted mess (like every other FGU game).
Quote from: BalbinusWhat was so good about Justice, Inc.?
Obviously the quesion is aimed mostly at those who mentioned it...
First off, the sourcebook was amazing... heck even the box art was pure dime-store novel.
Second, at that level of power, HERO does fisticuffs and non-deadly guns fairly well... and if you want to make guns more dangerous, use the optional hit location rules and you are all set.
Third, it included pretty cool & workable car-chase rules.
Fourth, the Psychic Powers section was perfect for the game... this is before the days of HERO means "Everything is a power bought with a laundry list of advantages and limitations." In JI, phychic powers are closer to unreliable skills with more interesting effects. Roll under your skill level and the power goes off... except that trying to activate the power instantly gave you a big penalty. It gave a very nice feel for the sensitive or the medium type character.
It is a classic game...
Quote from: GreentongueI believe that Savage Worlds does "Pulp" and does it well. I just don't think that is all it does. So it doesn't actually count as a "Pulp Game".
I'm not really so sure about that. Like Shane said ("Anything can be savaged... but not everything should!") Savage Worlds is
a kind of universal system, but once you convert your game to it, it takes on a certain "feel" that is sometimes different from the "feel" of the original game- and I would argue this feel is pretty pulpy.
Quote from: alexandro... and I would argue this feel is pretty pulpy.
Well you wouldn't be arguing with me.
My point was that it wasn't being sold as a "Pulp Game" not that it didn't do "Pulp". In fact one of the initial free example games was pure pulp.
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Quote from: SethwickSpirit of the Century just might be the finest RPG ever written. It definitely is the best pulp RPG ever written. One of the authors of Adventure even said so.
Um, to me that doesn't lend any weight to it being the best written. That's just an endorsement.
Quote from: NYTFLYRHollow Earth follows suite, with my biggest grip with it is the all in one combat roll (which is the same gripe I have with the new WoD)
Why a gripe? I knida like it.
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Why a gripe? I knida like it.
because some weapons are more accurate, some do more damage and they should be separated with two rolls (to hit, and damage)... A giant rock will a crapload of damage, but doesn't have a very good chance to hit... unless you are play HEX. its the same argument against nWoD, just because the attack is bigger doesn't mean its got a better chance to hit.
Mechanically HEX did nothing for me. The art is great, though.
Quote from: NYTFLYRbecause some weapons are more accurate, some do more damage and they should be separated with two rolls (to hit, and damage)... A giant rock will a crapload of damage, but doesn't have a very good chance to hit... unless you are play HEX. its the same argument against nWoD, just because the attack is bigger doesn't mean its got a better chance to hit.
Good points. My reading, though, is that in HEX, using a weapon just increases your own, inherent badassedness.
But I can't do that thing with my eyes.
Try to see it this way: if you are using a nasty weapon you have a good chance of seriously injuring your opponent, even if you only score a glancing blow. So a higher pool represents the fact that where you would otherwise need to hit your opponent at the right spot to do any damage worth considering, now you can hit him basically anywhere.
I really like "one-roll to see if you hit AND how much damage you do" systems. It saves valuable game-time and nicely avoids the silliness of scoring a "perfect hit" and then rolling a low damage result.
Quote from: alexandroTry to see it this way: if you are using a nasty weapon you have a good chance of seriously injuring your opponent, even if you only score a glancing blow. So a higher pool represents the fact that where you would otherwise need to hit your opponent at the right spot to do any damage worth considering, now you can hit him basically anywhere.
I really like "one-roll to see if you hit AND how much damage you do" systems. It saves valuable game-time and nicely avoids the silliness of scoring a "perfect hit" and then rolling a low damage result.
nope, cant wrap my mind around it... and time savings is minimal
Not in my experience (and many others)- 4 hour combats that only take up 10 minutes ingame from Shadowrun, anyone? This kinds of situations can easily happen in a dice pool system, if the rules are way too granular.
Quote from: alexandroI really like "one-roll to see if you hit AND how much damage you do" systems. It saves valuable game-time and nicely avoids the silliness of scoring a "perfect hit" and then rolling a low damage result.
Only if you assume that there is any difference between various rolls under (or over in roll-over systems) the TN. The rules say "Any roll under/over the TN is a hit," not "Any roll under/over the TN is a hit, and the lower/higher/closer to the TN the better." Conceptually, in such systems any roll which hits is identical in potential. The quality of said hit is adjudicated separately.
Now I have no problem with either concept, but some people have problems with one or the other. It's purely a perceptual problem. There is no real difference.
-clash
Quote from: alexandroNot in my experience (and many others)- 4 hour combats that only take up 10 minutes ingame from Shadowrun, anyone? This kinds of situations can easily happen in a dice pool system, if the rules are way too granular.
And I have five minute combats in-game that take fifteen minutes using systems with separated hit determination and quality. Might the difference be in the particulars, not in the generalities?
-clash
I have run Pulpy-style things in GURPS, Savage Worlds and Wushu (Pulp-fu).
And by far Wushu worked the best for it. I've never actually played SotC, but even though it looks like a good system, I might still prefer to run pulp in Wushu because of the PoNT and the system's overall simplicity.
Quote from: alexandroNot in my experience (and many others)- 4 hour combats that only take up 10 minutes ingame from Shadowrun, anyone? This kinds of situations can easily happen in a dice pool system, if the rules are way too granular.
Having played Shadowrun for many years, under many editions, I must tell you, sir: you are doing it wrong.
I've seen many a shadowrun showdown (like shaolin showdown without the annoying dragon...) go down in the space of two or three character's actions. Less than a full initiative pass. If you can stretch that out to four hours, more power too you.
For myself, I've often seen more reasonably long combats take far less time than the astral recon's that proceeded them. If you have a beef with Shadowrun, use that example. Combat, with it's high lethality, rarely took o'erlong.