Quote from: 3rik;1069579So, it's still dice-step, the wild die is still there and it's still got exploding dice...

What is the reason you don't really like this system as much as some other systems?

Quote from: jan paparazzi;1069619What is the reason you don't really like this system as much as some other systems?

Dice-step, the wild die and exploding dice. Oh, and the whole Shaken, Wounded thing. I prefer hit points. IME there's just a whole lot of fiddly stuff going on for such a relatively light system. It also doesn't feel particularly Fast, Furious and/or Fun.

Quote from: 3rik;1069622Dice-step, the wild die and exploding dice. Oh, and the whole Shaken, Wounded thing. I prefer hit points. IME there's just a whole lot of fiddly stuff going on for such a relatively light system. It also doesn't feel particularly Fast, Furious and/or Fun.

Idk, I find that hit points adds a lot more crunch than Savage Worlds' basic wound system.

But to each their own. I like being able to run 30+ Kaiju on 6mm scale against the party in Mechs as a couple of one-off fights before the real encounter.

Quote from: 3rik;1069622Dice-step, the wild die and exploding dice. Oh, and the whole Shaken, Wounded thing. I prefer hit points. IME there's just a whole lot of fiddly stuff going on for such a relatively light system. It also doesn't feel particularly Fast, Furious and/or Fun.

It's faster than mid-level D&D in MY experience.

Quote from: sureshot;1069570https://youtu.be/9Jz1TjCphXE

As funny as this was, please don't post blind links. You must include description for links here.

Quote from: 3rik;1069622Dice-step, the wild die and exploding dice. Oh, and the whole Shaken, Wounded thing. I prefer hit points. IME there's just a whole lot of fiddly stuff going on for such a relatively light system. It also doesn't feel particularly Fast, Furious and/or Fun.

I thought this, and after playing it, I feel differently.  Have you played it with an experienced GM?  Because the game plays to me, differently than it reads ( seemed alot reading it,playing, it was fast furious, and most importantly, fun).   I think high defenses or toughness does turn into a series of exploding dice needed to land a big shot, and I can not say how a high point/level encounter plays out.

My experience is that once you get the tempo of the combat system down - SW runs a lot faster than D&D. The Shaken rules simulates the whittling down of HP - including the Wounds rules which simulates the Death Spiral that the D&D HP system does not.

Plus you have many more mechanical options that plug directly into the fast-and-loose SW combat system. 5e does too... but I find the implementation to be less cohesive and tacked on.

Takes some getting used to if you come directly from D&D. But once you ride around in it with a decent GM that understands the system, it flows really nicely as long as you like over-the-top cinematic combat.

Quote from: oggsmash;1070937I think high defenses or toughness does turn into a series of exploding dice needed to land a big shot, and I can not say how a high point/level encounter plays out.

I think this is a *feature* of combat. It makes combat more dramatic and satisfying.

Quote from: tenbones;1071001I think this is a *feature* of combat. It makes combat more dramatic and satisfying.

I like how it reduces the "I attack it again" rounds and increases the "I do something creative to help other people kill it".

Quote from: Rhedyn;1071006I like how it reduces the "I attack it again" rounds and increases the "I do something creative to help other people kill it".

yeah! I can do more with a "thief" in SW that directly impacts combat for the whole party - including *everything* I could do with a thief in D&D without losing anything. Tricks, Taunts, etc is a HUUUUGE tactical benefit to the party. Opening up with the standard backstab (The Drop) feels better than the Sneak-Attack of post-3.x D&D. Couple that with things like Called Shots and whatever Edges you have that define your character... only makes it better.

And that's just one concept. Stand-and-bang melee have tons of possibilities that play very differently. You don't need classes. You just need to decide what your PC is about and their MO and proceed with wild abandon because you have no limits outside the scope of your setting constraints. Which for Savage Worlds is a tall bar.

Quote from: tenbones;1071001I think this is a *feature* of combat. It makes combat more dramatic and satisfying.

  The experiences I had it seemed to add drama and tension and I would agree it seemed a feature, I guess It looked like high skill combatants could get interesting, where it takes a 12 to explode the die, and statistically that can get harder to do.  But that is more me theory crafting than in game experience.  I know with combat skills around d10 and parry 8 to 10 or so it did look more a feature (where people used gang up, distractions, etc) to create tension and drama in a fight.   How does it go when the numbers get way up, like a 11 or so parry and d12+ skills?  I know for our group the wild die exploding was the cavalry riding in on a few encounters.

Quote from: oggsmash;1071036How does it go when the numbers get way up, like a 11 or so parry and d12+ skills?  I know for our group the wild die exploding was the cavalry riding in on a few encounters.

Oh I've been there.

It basically plays the same. For my campaign there came a point when the party was basically the boss encounter fighting waves of plucky mooks, that is until they fought someone with bigger numbers than them.

Quote from: oggsmash;1071036The experiences I had it seemed to add drama and tension and I would agree it seemed a feature, I guess It looked like high skill combatants could get interesting, where it takes a 12 to explode the die, and statistically that can get harder to do.  But that is more me theory crafting than in game experience.  I know with combat skills around d10 and parry 8 to 10 or so it did look more a feature (where people used gang up, distractions, etc) to create tension and drama in a fight.   How does it go when the numbers get way up, like a 11 or so parry and d12+ skills?  I know for our group the wild die exploding was the cavalry riding in on a few encounters.

Yeah a lot of people forget that if you have a d10 in any skill - you're among the best in the world at that skill. In D&D terms it would be like being a 10th level fighter or better, with d12 representing 15th+. So combat at that level *should* be difficult.

When people have Parry 10+ you should let that PC indulge in how good they really are at turning blades, avoiding blows, etc and let them feel how badass they really are - so that when the eventual exploding die pierces that high Parry value, they know shit just got real and they're dealing with something clearly on a special level.

When it happens in my games, it immediately becomes an "ohhhh shit!" moment and the fight is on. I like my players with high combat stats revel in their badassery. They should feel heroic and above the lesser combatants. Until it's time for them to meet their martial peers. Its one of the most attractive parts of Savage Worlds for me, where your primary defenses are tied directly to your skills (mostly) and less to your gear. Unlike D&D.

And yes - when going up against someone with a Parry of 10+ you should be trying to use every possible advantage to bypass that in order to hit them. Tricks, Gang-up whatever it takes. It keeps those PC's with high Parry ratings on their toes and lets them know that not every mook or NPC is a dummy that can't deal with them on an even footing but still be dangerous.

All of this keeps the tensions high at that level.

I want to run a fantasy campaign (I haven't ran a game as a gamemaster in aeons) and I was trying to figure out which system would be best.  I may buy the PDF and check it out.  I have the Deluxe edition, and it seems like they may have fixed some of the things that bothered me about Savage Worlds.

Quote from: Redforce;1071745I want to run a fantasy campaign (I haven't ran a game as a gamemaster in aeons) and I was trying to figure out which system would be best.  I may buy the PDF and check it out.  I have the Deluxe edition, and it seems like they may have fixed some of the things that bothered me about Savage Worlds.

I really like running Savage Worlds, more so than any other system so far.