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So, I'm looking for a "light" generic system

Started by KillingMachine, June 02, 2007, 11:07:51 PM

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Skyrock

My knowledge of d6 is to blurred to be of any value, but Savage Worlds might be worth a try for your purposes.

What I like about it are especially two points:
- Minimal bookkeeping during combat: Most NPCs are Extras - mooks who are either OK, Shaken (momentarily stunned and unable to attack; can be shown by laying low the mini or placing a token on its field) or out of combat (hit with a raise on damage roll or hit while Shaken). Ammo is handled abstract too, so that for the majority of the enemies you have nothing to bookkeep (excebt writing up the stat blocks).
Only Wildcards (PCs and major NPCs) get a more differentiated bookkeeping, which is limited to ammo, a short wound track and bennies (gum points for re-rolling).
- Player-lead armies: With the easy handling of Extras, hordes of allied Extras are easy to manage and allow still fast combats. SW encourages this and lets the players control their allies. This makes for really big combats where hordes of minis are clashing into each other.


However, there are also weakpoints.

First, "Fast!" and "Furious!" are more than exaggerated if you already know really fast systems as Risus or Wushu. It surely runs way faster than D&D, but is still on the crunchier side of systems (somewhere on the line between CP2020 without crunchbooks and Feng Shui).

Moreover, you'll need some time to compile the system for your setting. Some Skills and Edges (feats) need to be thrown away, some need to be added, and if there's anything supernatural you also have to think about appropriate Arcane Backgrounds, Powers and trappings for them. It's not like you can brainstorm and start 5 minutes later with only consulting the book.

The most unnerving aspect are the sidebar playing advices from the zombie-clown Smilin' Jack. There is enough pseudo-joviality, pseudo-coolness and outright bad prose that it will make your eyes bleeding. (However, at least the GM advice section is something usable - no Golden Rule, no appeal to fudge behind the GMs screen, no appeal to fuck your PCs if they get "too powerful", none of this Swine nonsense.)

And finally, the test-drive rules suck, with a capital S. They don't show you clearly what are the thoughts behind some of the more unusual mechanics, they didn't put any effort into showing and highlighting the cool points in the system, and the starting adventure is so unimaginative and stupid that I could come up with something better in 5 minutes while suffering mega headache. All they do is to throw in there raw rules and hope someone will like it.
If you like SW it will be _despite_ the test-drive, not _because_ of.
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Hackmaster

I'll toss in another vote for Savage Worlds. It's a very slick game.

All the rules you need are in one single hardcover (unlike D6, which has separate books for each genre).

The rules are easy to learn and easy to use.

One of the best parts of the game is how easy it is to stat up NPCs and opponents.

Although brief, the rules can be a bit of a dry read, and the beauty of the system doesn't always come through from just reading the book. This is a game that definitely needs to be played.

It would have been cool if the author put sidebars in explaining the reasoning for certain rules. A few seem a bit odd at first, but with a closer look, especially during play, you come to realize how brilliant they really are.
 

Dr Rotwang!

Quote from: KillingMachineThat sounds pretty cool. Would it be very difficult to mix and match something say, from Fantasy with Space?
Not if I do it all the time...

QuoteHmm. I dunno if I'd want to mix machetes and tacos. Thats just asking for trouble. :D
Yeah, if you don't hold the tacos right.
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Dr Rotwang!

Quote from: GoOrangeAll the rules you need are in one single hardcover (unlike D6, which has separate books for each genre).
That is kind of a hassle, but frankly, having Adventure isn't very different from having Fantasy.  I have Space and Adventure, and haven't really needed Fantasy very much -- even though I'm running it.
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KillingMachine

Thanks a lot for all of the responses, guys. I guess I'll try to break this down and reply to some of the comments.

Quote from: RooksGambitSince you were previoiusly running D&D, the transition will be fairly easy, as they share a very similar structure.

This worries me somewhat. :raise:
How exactly is it similar to 3.X D&D?  I found that ruleset to be unusuitable for me. Too many fiddly bits to keep track of.

Quote from: RPGPunditI do agree with what others have said though, that it'd be really good if you mentioned more about what you're looking for; what type of campaign you want to run, what you consider "light", what you'd find important in a game. Especially if you're hoping to get recommendations for games other than the two you mentioned.

Okay, I'll see if I can provide some answers for the questions you raised.

Q: What type of campaign are you trying to run?
A: I really don't have anything particular in mind, but the main reason I'm looking into a generic game is in the hope that it would be able to handle just about anything. If I feel like doing typical sci-fi or fantasy, I want it to do it, if I feel like having a campaign about MacGuyver vs the Smurf village, I'd like it to be able to handle that too.

Q: What do you consider "light"?
A: Examples of games that I consider light are Rules Encyclopedia D&D, Star Frontiers, D6 Star Wars. Stuff like that.

Q:What you'd find important in a game?
A: An easy to manage system without a lot of number crunching or adjustments that need applying. I'd like character generation to be a quick and painless process that doesn't require a bunch of pre-meditation; and statting out NPCs should be even faster. It would also be a bonus if the rules can be easily explained on the fly (or with a small handout) to a new player. It's also important that the game is available as a printed book. I'm just not into PDFs for rulebooks.

I have a pretty bad taste in my mouth from D&D 3.X, so its actually fairly important to me now that a game isn't d20, either. I'm not TOTALLY against everything d20, but I do consider it a strong mark against my interest in it.

Quote from: KoltarI recommend either GURPS LITE

- OR-

SAVAGE WORLDS


There are at least 5 settings books for SAVAGE WORLDS out there in game stores - but with just the core rulebook you should have enough to do what you want.

GURPS has an option of "cinematic" play inherent in many of its regular books.

I wasn't aware that there was a lite version of GURPS. I might have to look in to that some more. I kinda got the impression that standard GURPS probably had more crunch than I'm looking for as a GM, but I wouldn't mind being a player sometime. :)

Quote from: SkyrockAnd finally, the test-drive rules suck, with a capital S. They don't show you clearly what are the thoughts behind some of the more unusual mechanics, they didn't put any effort into showing and highlighting the cool points in the system, and the starting adventure is so unimaginative and stupid that I could come up with something better in 5 minutes while suffering mega headache. All they do is to throw in there raw rules and hope someone will like it.
If you like SW it will be _despite_ the test-drive, not _because_ of.

I didn't think the test drive was all that bad. I could have done without the starting adventure though. At any rate, it was better than nothing and it didn't make me run away screaming.
 

RPGPundit

Quote from: KillingMachineMacGuyver vs the Smurf village,

You want Over the Edge.  Discussion over. :D

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Actually, Over the Edge is a rather interesting system even taken out of its Al'Amarja context. I'd rather make its traits a bit more fine-grained than play Fudge or Fate...
 

Blue Devil

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I heart D6 until my head falls off.  But what do you need?

It's all about your needs, baby.

Put me down as another vote for D6.

It is very light, can handle just about anything and it's really easy to learn and go.

Very Cinematic as well

Ian Absentia

Have you tried Exalted?

Seriously, though, my vote would be for either Over the Edge or Risus, though by the standards you described they both seem a little too "lite".

!i!

Blue Devil

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaSeriously, though, my vote would be for either Over the Edge or Risus, though by the standards you described they both seem a little too "lite".

!i!

I don't know too much about Over the Edge but I would agree that by the standards he gave Risus is way too light.

Risus is something I would use for a pickup game, not something I would use for a game that would last for awhile (YMMV)

HinterWelt

Not sure this is precisely what you are looking for but it might be close. Iridium Lite has been accused of being more of a "medium" than a "lite" game but at 6 pages it is easy to determine if it meets your needs.

Iridium Lite

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Quote from: KillingMachineThis worries me somewhat. :raise:
How exactly is it similar to 3.X D&D?  I found that ruleset to be unusuitable for me. Too many fiddly bits to keep track of.

Let me clarify.  It's similar in structure, but still considerably less fiddly.

There are your core stats:  Agility, Smarts, Spirit, Strength and Vigor.  These correlate rather closely to the core Abilities of D&D.

There are Skills and there are Edges (Feats, if you will), though in both categories they are broader and easier to impliment.

Stats and Skills (Collectively Traits) are only a frame, and the characters are better defined through their Edges, of which they get one every advancement.

It's just a familiar framework to someone who's played D&D, though not near as "fiddly".

SW is actually my choice for running cool D&D settings (such as Iron Kingdoms), and Pinnacles proprietary settings.
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arminius

Lately I've been privately enthusing over the simple crunchiness of games like Talislanta 2e and Wasteworld. Essentially these are a simple resolution system that only gets "dirtied up" by the variety of player options available in terms of skills, special abilities, spells, equipment, etc. So I'd consider maybe the Omni system, which has its lineage in Talislanta, even though I haven't played it myself. Or maybe one of the OGL-based lite games like Levi's Perfect20? Just a thought.

Kester Pelagius

Quote from: HinterWeltNot sure this is precisely what you are looking for but it might be close. Iridium Lite has been accused of being more of a "medium" than a "lite" game but at 6 pages it is easy to determine if it meets your needs.

Iridium Lite

The Iridium system is great for classic fantasy and sci-fi but I'm not sure it really does the whole nuevo lite cinematic thing well, assuming that's what the OP was looking for.  Of course I suppose that depends on the person using it, eh?

And, like the man said, it's only 6 pages.  :D
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Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHave you tried Exalted?

Seriously, though, my vote would be for either Over the Edge or Risus, though by the standards you described they both seem a little too "lite".

!i!


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