So, I'm looking for a "heavy" generic system...

Zachary The First · June 04, 2007, 12:55:56 PM

...Well, ok, really, KillingMachine's post just got me thinking about what heavy generic systems are out there. On my own preferences, I'd rate stuff like JAGS and GURPS fairly medium-heavy (GURPS partisans, I know you take what you want from GURPS, I'm just sayin'). I'd rate Iridium Core just about smack-dab in the middle.

What other fairly "heavy" (IYO) generic systems are out there? Seems like a lot of the free generic systems--Fudge, FATE, Risus, several of the excellent lite d20 spinoffs, etc., are definitely fairly light in nature.

flyingmice · June 04, 2007, 12:57:45 PM

Quote from: Zachary The First...Well, ok, really, KillingMachine's post just got me thinking about what heavy generic systems are out there. On my own preferences, I'd rate stuff like JAGS and GURPS fairly medium-heavy (GURPS partisans, I know you take what you want from GURPS, I'm just sayin'). I'd rate Iridium Core just about smack-dab in the middle.

What other fairly "heavy" (IYO) generic systems are out there? Seems like a lot of the free generic systems--Fudge, FATE, Risus, several of the excellent lite d20 spinoffs, etc., are definitely fairly light in nature.

Have you checked out JAGS Revised yet? It is now my fave heavy ruleset. It's old school JAGS, but amped, refined, and much better explained.

-clash

Zachary The First · June 04, 2007, 01:03:20 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceHave you checked out JAGS Revised yet? It is now my fave heavy ruleset.

-clash

Yep. JAGS is one of those systems that I really, really, really look long and hard at, but just can find the time to get into it. I have all the downloads, though, and have to get to running it one of these days. Too many good ideas not to.

Kester Pelagius · June 04, 2007, 01:11:41 PM

I will third JAGS and HIGHLY RECOMMEND their Have-Not supplement. If you liked Gamma World then this will blow you away.

Caesar Slaad · June 04, 2007, 01:15:33 PM

Quote from: Zachary The FirstWhat other fairly "heavy" (IYO) generic systems are out there?

HERO system.

Mcrow · June 04, 2007, 01:18:28 PM

Rolemaster is pretty generic.

James McMurray · June 04, 2007, 03:01:49 PM

I'd add Spacemaster to the list as well. The two of them combined, especially with books like "And a Ten Foot Pole" for gear from different time periods can run pretty much anything.

Sosthenes · June 04, 2007, 03:05:13 PM

Although you'd need a lot of the companion books to call RoleMaster heavy...

James McMurray · June 04, 2007, 03:08:35 PM

Depends on the definition I guess. Arms and Claw Law is enough to send some gamers into a cataonic state.

Sosthenes · June 04, 2007, 03:13:36 PM

Yeah, that's what tables do to some people. But that's about all there is to RoleMaster. No fancy combat rules for every imaginable situation, no huge collection of advantages, flaws, edges, kung fu techniques etc.
The depth of the few mechanisms is quite intricate, but there's no huge volume of different options, at least in the basic set.

So yes, depends on what you call heavy. It's certainly not complicated, but it fills up some pages...

flyingmice · June 04, 2007, 03:16:23 PM

Quote from: James McMurrayDepends on the definition I guess. Arms and Claw Law is enough to send some gamers into a cataonic state.

Table-phobia is rather widespread. I think it's strange - tables are just a means of cleanly organizing and presenting stuff - but I'm realistic enough to see that some people would rather wade through a zillion descriptive words than face one table.

-clash

Mcrow · June 04, 2007, 03:40:16 PM

Quote from: SosthenesAlthough you'd need a lot of the companion books to call RoleMaster heavy...

I always thought Rolemaster was pretty crunchy. I count anything more complicated than D&D as "Heavy".

Sosthenes · June 04, 2007, 04:01:27 PM

I'd say that RC D&D is more complicated than basic RM. As is 2nd edition and most certainly 3E...

Caesar Slaad · June 04, 2007, 04:36:00 PM

Quote from: SosthenesAlthough you'd need a lot of the companion books to call RoleMaster heavy...

I disagree. I think that the accounting involved in character generation and advancement and the heavy chart dependence of any but the most stripped down iterations of the game (MERP, Cyberspace) is sufficient to earn the game the title of heavy.

J Arcane · June 04, 2007, 06:56:02 PM

GURPS 4 is about an order of magnitude "heavier" than GURPS 3, so if you haven't checked out the new edition, it may be what your after.

It really feels like they deliberately tried to move in a more HERO-esque direction, addign omplexity all over the place and intriducing something resembling an effects-based approach to a lot of the ads and disads.