Quote from: RPGPundit;412770Yes. If there's a problem its with the absurd idea that showing off PC-feminism or fundamentally changing the hobby is somehow what has to be done to attract women gamers. Or minority gamers, or whatever.  
The way to attract more gamers is just to focus on the fundamentals of gaming; recognizing, yes, that in part it may be the case that white men will be the ones most drawn to its themes, but that as long as you don't go out of your way to EXCLUDE other groups, there's nothing in particular that you "have" to change in order to get people from other groups involved.

RPGPundit

In other words, treat someone like a person and things will go better. Amazing. Pundit, your logic surpasses faar too many people, in this area.

Quote from: Grymbok;412785Who knows without looking at it - your game might be rules-heavy enough that in needs that level of detail (and so I likely wouldn't be a customer of yours anyway). My gut reaction from what you've written above is that if you need to spend a large chunk of that page count walking peolle through chargen, then you've made chargen too complex.

The actual rules for the main elements of CharGen done via points-buy can be stated fairly shortly. It's more a question of... doing the work for the reader. Wrapping things up in packages for them so they don't have to work them out for themselves.

I would anticipate a newbie group could get through CharGen on their own in an hour. To some people that sounds like forever, but I think for a long-running campaign it's worth it.

Quote from: Benoist;412761but man, they loved the dungeon crawling too. They loved the exploration. They loved the fights. They rocked.

Either those were very singular women, or you were running the fights with less than a full-on dose of the terrible anorakory which often plagues hack-n-slash games and puts off people of both genders, girls more so than guys. I've met one or two girls who were really into the statting side of things, maybe even three I suppose, but I think the majority, if they do like combat, prefer the general feel of the excitement of battle, maybe with some tactics thrown in, rather than ratcheting up stat bonuses from magic items, squeezing the maximum oomph out of spells and weaponry etc and salivating over one's spangly Armour Class for hours on end. I have seen people do it. None of them female, although one or two I know give the impression that they have got up to that sort of thing in the past - I haven't seen it. Actually I have heard one girl talk about it at length but she has a clinical condition...

Do you have a clinical condition yourself?

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;412241Anything more than 2 pages of fluff text at the beginning of the book. Yes, this puts me and most White Wolf products forever at odds. But seriously, if I wanted a novel, I'd read a novel.

Gratuitous T&A.

In-world slang in game text.

I don't object to this because it's fluff text, I object to it because of it's placement. I want to get to MY game, not have to wade through someone else's, even if it's thumbing through just to get to the contents page. Otherwise I have no objection to fiction parts (the stuff in the LUGTrek TOS edition was quite fun - whereas the anime crap in the exalted supplements is painful and ugly).

Quote from: Benoist;412832Do you have a clinical condition yourself?

Not a mental one, or at least not one which has been diagnosed so far... frankly it just goes to show the limitations of modern science, don't you think???

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;412878I don't object to this because it's fluff text, I object to it because of it's placement. I want to get to MY game, not have to wade through someone else's, even if it's thumbing through just to get to the contents page. Otherwise I have no objection to fiction parts (the stuff in the LUGTrek TOS edition was quite fun - whereas the anime crap in the exalted supplements is painful and ugly).

I am more and more of the view that where game-balance matters, fluff and crunch are inseparable.

Where game-balance doesn't matter, they can be totally separate, but I like game-balance *** ducks for cover *** because I feel people generally like to think they're being treated fairly and because it lets everyone have an equal chance at grabbing the limelight. Of course, I don't mean that the game has to be balanced around combat - it has to be balanced around whatever the party are going to be getting up to. No good being the whirling claymore machine of death in a game of high politics where every other PC at the table is a noble with contacts, allies, retainers and huge resources of wealth and you're basically some two-bit mercenary new to the court with limited social graces and an aura of creepiness.

Quote from: Omnifray;413002Not a mental one, or at least not one which has been diagnosed so far... frankly it just goes to show the limitations of modern science, don't you think???

You said it my friend, not me!

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;412157In character fiction - Rarely written well-enough to be evocative of a particular mood and style, which is its supposed purpose. I stopped buying Mage products when I bought a supplement and the first twelve pages of the 128pg book were fiction before you even got to the table of contents! This is especially problematic when every book has tons and tons of these pieces (as WoD books do). They become indistinct, repetitive, and cliched.

I agree with this in the fact that I don't need short fiction in my RPG rulebooks that subtley hint on how I should be running games. 'Hey! Here's a 1000 word short story that illustrates how the game I've designed should be played!' No, thanks.

Quote from: Bobloblah;412436Sorry, but I'm not sure who "Pete" refers to...?

http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=412237&postcount=28

Bobloblah: Pete = Pete Spahn.

-clash