$40 for a big boxed set didn't sound crazy at all, and I ALMOST splurged on it yesterday...but I just didn't.
It was mostly the booster pack thing that unsold me, honestly.
Still, it was darn tempting.
No other point to this post, really...=P
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;412927$40 for a big boxed set didn't sound crazy at all, and I ALMOST splurged on it yesterday...but I just didn't.
It was mostly the booster pack thing that unsold me, honestly.
Still, it was darn tempting.
I played the Gamma World game day module two Saturdays ago at a nearby gaming store. I was tempted to buy the box set, but didn't in the end.
I knew that it would most likely end up sitting on my bookshelf collecting dust, without ever being played again. Over the last while, I've been trying to avoid buying gaming stuff which ends up collecting dust on my shelves or in storage.
As another old time Gamma nut, I too am still holding off. I'm Glad to see the game back in print and I don't feel the booster card are an issue for me. It's just that I already have various editions of Gamma World. If I do feel the urge to run Gamma World it's just easier to stick with waht I already know and which sort of works. The time I would have to spent learning the new rules I could spend on the campaign itself.
If I really wanted to explore a new system for Gamma World, I'd be more tempted by the unofficial Savage Worlds version. I think that would make a good match.
That said, you never know.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;412927It was mostly the booster pack thing that unsold me, honestly.
Don't let that stop you. Honestly. These are
completely optional. Read my first impressions by checking out the link in my sig (pics included). I'm reading through it right now and I'm really, really liking what I see.
For the Gamma World game day thing, we played it without any additional booster packs.
Quote from: Benoist;412931Don't let that stop you. Honestly. These are completely optional.
Gabe at Penny Arcade addressed the "booster packs" issue on the PA site here (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2010/10/13/gamma-world/). This is the specific portion of the post:
Quote from: Gabe at Penny ArcadeI've seen this sentiment echoed in other places as well. People seem to think that Gamma World is a CCG and that's simply not the case. You do not ever need to buy a booster pack to play the game. Like I said it comes with two decks full of mutations and tech cards. If you decide that you would like to build your own decks to draw from then yes, you can go and purchase booster packs. You are not at a disadvantage if you don't though because this is not a competitive game.
Hm.
Honestly, the moment has probably passed now, as I was in the store, with it sitting right there, and had cash in hand...and said store is an hour's drive out of my way now...so we'll see.
Good to know the boosters aren't so bad...and don't get me wrong, it's not the "booster" aspect that bothers me. It's the part where they are sealed and random that does it...(I've never complained about supplements, that I can recall).
For me the cards are a turn off, people keep saying you don't need them, so why the boosters? Confusing and unecessary.
There is something else that puts me off though, in everything I've read about this it seems to revel in the fact that you will die, a lot. I played GW a lot back in the day and I don't remember death being a big part of the game. I mean PC's died but it wasn't a core part of the game. The level of mortality in this new version coupled with the max level of 10 seems doomed to give a type of playing experience which doesn't allow the player to get to know his character. Sure you can roll up another PC quick but whats the point? If the character is going to die again next session it's just a set of numbers who cares. It sounds more like Paranoia without the handy clones waiting in the wings.
The whole thing about powers changing all the time as well! WTF is that about?
I would like to buy this as although I don't like 4th ed as a D&D game I've said from day 1 to my group that it would make a kick ass superpowers type game. Which is what this new version of GW appears to be.
Please correct me if anything I've said is not your experience of the game as I would like to buy it!
Based on everything I've seen and heard so far though it doesn't sound like our cup of tea...
Quote from: Benoist;412931Don't let that stop you. Honestly. These are completely optional. Read my first impressions by checking out the link in my sig (pics included). I'm reading through it right now and I'm really, really liking what I see.
I'll be reading your future posts on this with great interest.
Quote from: Tommy Brownell;412936Good to know the boosters aren't so bad...and don't get me wrong, it's not the "booster" aspect that bothers me. It's the part where they are sealed and random that does it...(I've never complained about supplements, that I can recall).
I understand. The thing to clearly point out is that you've got 80 non-random cards included with the game itself, and that it is entirely fine to just use this deck in your Gamma World game without
ever buying a single booster pack or building custom decks for each player. At all. Ever.
You can also completely house rule the use of the cards in the game out by simply stating: "we do not use the Alpha Mutation and Omega Tech cards at this game table." Boom. Done. Then, either you use the Mutation effects whenever and however you feel like it at your game table as DM, and/or use the Omega Tech cards basically as equipment fodder for your game. I'll be going more into alternate uses for the cards in the game on the Gamma Whirl blog I just created.
Quote from: EBM;412942I'll be reading your future posts on this with great interest.
Excellent! Duly noted, and very glad to be of service. :)
Quote from: EBM;412941For me the cards are a turn off, people keep saying you don't need them, so why the boosters? Confusing and unecessary.
There is something else that puts me off though, in everything I've read about this it seems to revel in the fact that you will die, a lot. I played GW a lot back in the day and I don't remember death being a big part of the game. I mean PC's died but it wasn't a core part of the game. The level of mortality in this new version coupled with the max level of 10 seems doomed to give a type of playing experience which doesn't allow the player to get to know his character. Sure you can roll up another PC quick but whats the point? If the character is going to die again next session it's just a set of numbers who cares. It sounds more like Paranoia without the handy clones waiting in the wings.
No, it's not really like Paranoia. Bear with me: there's a completely different approach to mortality in the GW game. Basically your HP total (which does NOT represent Health at all but a combination of skill, endurance, and such) replenishes itself after each encounter in the game. So the PCs can get killed for sure, but more by really mishandling an encounter or really getting piled on than just not having access to healing or whatnot. The logic's just different.
Quote from: EBM;412941The whole thing about powers changing all the time as well! WTF is that about?
At the beginning of each encounter the players are supposed to draw an Alpha Mutation card from a deck. The effects are stuff like adrenaline rushes, layers of carapace spontaneously thickening your skin, that kind of thing. It keep things dynamic and changes the circumstances of each encounter you face, so no fight against a bunch of Porkers will ever feel the same.
I think it can be fun to play the game that way, but then again, maybe you'll want to ration the use of Mutation cards just houserule them out completely, both of which seems completely fine in the game. That is, you can for instance state that drawing cards from the Alpha Mutation deck is triggered by specific mutagene zones in the game. If the PCs don't get close to the mutagene element, they don't draw cards. Or maybe the mutations are triggered by the players' emotions, like "HULK ANGRY" effects you judge on the spot as a GM.
There are different ways of handling it. Now the "draw a card per encounter" is the base paradigm of the game, but it's really not hard to modify this in the game.
Quote from: Benoist;412948There are different ways of handling it. Now the "draw a card per encounter" is the base paradigm of the game, but it's really not hard to modify this in the game.
Or take different approaches in different games. In a more serious, longer term game, I plan to house rule the cards. In a one or two night get together, I plan to go with the rules as written.
Seanchai
Quote from: Seanchai;412952Or take different approaches in different games. In a more serious, longer term game, I plan to house rule the cards. In a one or two night get together, I plan to go with the rules as written.
Seanchai
That's what I'd do too. Different approaches for different games and players. Starting with the rules as written clearly seems to be a good way to start, especially to figure out how the game plays, as opposed to the way it looks on the page, to then adjust whatever specifics needs adjustments to the group's tastes and play style.
As mentioned elsewhere, the PvP comic tempted me; news of how mutations are handled un-tempted me.
@Benoist: Is it a standalone game or would i have to purchase other D&D stuff to play the game?
Quote from: Phantom Black;412966@Benoist: Is it a standalone game or would i have to purchase other D&D stuff to play the game?
Completely standalone. We didn't use or need any 4E D&D books to play it.
Makes it tempting somewhat, but i don'T know.
Quote from: Phantom Black;412966@Benoist: Is it a standalone game or would i have to purchase other D&D stuff to play the game?
Indeed, completely standalone.
I also think that home-made cards will be fairly easy to come up with - no real need to get on the booster pack treadmill.
Quote from: Benoist;412948No, it's not really like Paranoia. Bear with me: there's a completely different approach to mortality in the GW game. Basically your HP total (which does NOT represent Health at all but a combination of skill, endurance, and such) replenishes itself after each encounter in the game. So the PCs can get killed for sure, but more by really mishandling an encounter or really getting piled on than just not having access to healing or whatnot. The logic's just different.
At the beginning of each encounter the players are supposed to draw an Alpha Mutation card from a deck. The effects are stuff like adrenaline rushes, layers of carapace spontaneously thickening your skin, that kind of thing. It keep things dynamic and changes the circumstances of each encounter you face, so no fight against a bunch of Porkers will ever feel the same.
I think it can be fun to play the game that way, but then again, maybe you'll want to ration the use of Mutation cards just houserule them out completely, both of which seems completely fine in the game. That is, you can for instance state that drawing cards from the Alpha Mutation deck is triggered by specific mutagene zones in the game. If the PCs don't get close to the mutagene element, they don't draw cards. Or maybe the mutations are triggered by the players' emotions, like "HULK ANGRY" effects you judge on the spot as a GM.
There are different ways of handling it. Now the "draw a card per encounter" is the base paradigm of the game, but it's really not hard to modify this in the game.
OK this is all starting to make more sense already!
If the game lethally punishes players as a consequence for poor/stupid play I'm ok with that. I got the wrong impression as it sounded from what I've seen so far (until now) like characters could get killed just because it's Gamma World and it's funny! Almost like a cartoon.
I think I'm also ok with the explanation you've given for the Alpha power changes. In a gonzo one off you could go crazy and have it happen more often. For longer in depth games emotions or enviroments can trigger it less often for a more dramatic unpredictable effect.
I don't like the price of the boosters but making your own cards would be pretty simple and it would be an interesting way to house rule.
Hmmm food for thought Benoist. Thanks.
Quote from: One Horse Town;412973I also think that home-made cards will be fairly easy to come up with - no real need to get on the booster pack treadmill.
Oh yes, totally. I'm going to scan a couple of cards to show people, and indeed, it really shouldn't be too hard to get a sense of what's cool, what's not, and make cards on our own from there. We could come up with a card template or something, too, to make it even easier. I'll see what I can do.
Quote from: One Horse Town;412973I also think that home-made cards will be fairly easy to come up with - no real need to get on the booster pack treadmill.
And the game evens suggests doing so if you desire.
Seanchai
So...do the cards have new mechanics...or just add cards for mechanics already in the game?
I'm fairly unclear on this.
I think the whole power and card thing needs a little explanation. I was put off by the idea as well but some people I trust said there were interesting things in this box and the price is certainly right, so I bought it. I haven't played (fair warning) but have prepped a game for Thursday night and rolled several characters.
Anyway here's the schtick.
First, you have two origins, a primary and a secondary. You roll them randomly but you can pick them if you like (though the rules clearly state that this makes you a big chicken, and I pretty much concur). The origins lay down your stat distribution, some special traits, and you core (immutable!) power list. These powers you always have. They don't change. Full stop.
Now you also have some cards. You have Alpha Mutation cards and you have Omega Tech cards. The story is that the world is still unstable after the Big Mistake -- timelines still occasionally get crossed and people (and things) get ... revised. Most of this has died down, so the really big upheavals don't happen much any more, but it still happens occasionally. You draw a couple of Alpha Mutation cards from a deck to start with. Whenever you roll a 1 there is an Alpha Surge and you get revised a little. But, again, your core features never change. Rather some ancillary feature is changed to some other one.
If this sticks in your craw (and it does a little for me) you can build your own deck to draw from. Because the minimum number of cards in the deck is 7, it's very easy to build a highly thematic deck and get alpha surges that are consistent with your character concept. You can omit (or stock up on!) the Paranoia-flavoured (giant clown feet!) ones and you will never draw them. Now if your character suddenly grows a blood-sucking proboscis it's your own damned fault and presumably exactly what you wanted.
The other deck is the Omega Tech deck and it's even less of an issue. Basically this is your magic item set and it's filled with stuff that only works once and then burns out or you can try and salvage it with your science skills and then use it indefinitely at a reduced capability. Again, stacking these decks is central to building a theme and it's very easy to do. The GM will want to stack decks by encounter, I think, but the idea that the players can draw from their own deck and get treasure THEY WANT some of the time is probably a good idea, avoiding the "well no one wants a MACE so put it in the Value Village bin" syndrome. A firm grip on the distinction between player and character should keep this working without a lot of narrative strain. If you like, only draw from the GM's stacked decks and tighten the screws on theme that way.
Finally, the booster packs. These are wholly optional. This has been addressed adequately I think. What hasn't been well handled is the fact that I think they are highly desirable. You don't need a ton, but having a few to assist in stacking up some theme decks is pretty cool. No one is at an advantage having done so, but honestly as supplementary material goes, it's a pretty tight way to package crunch. And it all keeps fitting in the box, which is a big deal for me.
The book is ugly, printed in a fucking TINY typeface and the index is a new low. The organization is okay. The binding quality is ass.
Thanks a ton for the clarification.
I think you just unsold me on it, but I do really appreciate you clearing it up.
I really think this shouldn't be grounds to unsold someone on Gamma Word. There are a number of ways you can use or not use the cards if you want to, as I alluded to in the thread. Thinking you'd have a lot of trouble modifying the use of the cards and/or make up your own etc would be dead wrong. It's really easy.
Quote from: Halfjack;412991The book is ugly, printed in a fucking TINY typeface and the index is a new low. The organization is okay. The binding quality is ass.
This part of Halfjack's post I just completely disagree with. I guess it's a question of POVs.
Quote from: Benoist;412995I really think this shouldn't be grounds to unsold someone on Gamma Word. There are a number of ways you can use or not use the cards if you want to, as I alluded to in the thread. Thinking you'd have a lot of trouble modifying the use of the cards and/or make up your own etc would be dead wrong. It's really easy.
This part of Halfjack's post I just completely disagree with. I guess it's a question of POVs.
Eh, the set-up just doesn't sound like something I think I'd get too excited about in play is all.
It's cool. :)
Quote from: Benoist;412995This part of Halfjack's post I just completely disagree with. I guess it's a question of POVs.
Dude, it's in a 6-point condensed typeface, a very light-weight cover around perfect binding (with the cover-wrap already coming away from the cover pages), and the index is 3/4 of a page in a larger face than the rest of the book. I have NEVER YET found the word I was looking for in the index. And I was looking for "Armor Class", "initiative", and "burst". There are 62 entries in an index for a 160 page book.
I think the only genuinely subjective part about my critique of the book proper there is "ugly". I'll concede some might like the green, purple, and orange motif.
Well, dude, I have no problem with the size of the font, I think the binding is fine, I can't say much about the index yet, and indeed, some people might like the color scheme and art, like me. So yeah, I'm not saying you don't have have the right to feel the way you do, but it's subjective from where I'm standing. Which is completely fine by me.
:)
Quote from: Halfjack;412991What hasn't been well handled is the fact that I think they are highly desirable.
I think they're moderately desirable. I'm unhappy with the price. Or the number of cards you get. Basically, you get 8 cards for $3.99.
I want them so that I can stack decks if I play a longer, more serious game. The rule is that you can put two copies of any card in your deck. So if want to create "themes" - and I think I would - I want to have plenty of cards. Enough that I could create enough "themes" for five or six players.
There are a hundred and some in this set of boosters, so you have to get a fair number of boosters. I have about a three inch stack of each, including what came with the game. I started to sort them out to see how many multiples of each I have, but got bored with the project minutes in...
Seanchai
Just looked at the index, and it sucks (62 entries total. Doesn't even fit a page). Fair point.
Quote from: Seanchai;413008I think they're moderately desirable. I'm unhappy with the price. Or the number of cards you get. Basically, you get 8 cards for $3.99.
Gabe at Penny Arcade also addressed this; given that WotC has been posting podcasts with the PA guys playing their games, I imagine someone there has seen this:
Quote from: Gabe at Penny ArcadeNow with that said I do have a major problem with the booster packs. That is, they cost way too fucking much. $3.99 for a pack of 8 cards is stupid. Again I love the idea of the packs and I understand that they are not necessary but come on. That’s more than a MTG booster pack and those have 15 cards. That is simply not okay.
Quote from: Halfjack;412991Because the minimum number of cards in the deck is 7, it's very easy to build a highly thematic deck and get alpha surges that are consistent with your character concept. You can omit (or stock up on!) the Paranoia-flavoured (giant clown feet!) ones and you will never draw them. Now if your character suddenly grows a blood-sucking proboscis it's your own damned fault and presumably exactly what you wanted.
Sometimes you'll be required to pull one from the GM's deck, like on a natural one, but it would still be nice to have some control over the once-per-encounter draws.
Quote from: Halfjack;412991Finally, the booster packs. These are wholly optional. This has been addressed adequately I think. What hasn't been well handled is the fact that I think they are highly desirable. You don't need a ton, but having a few to assist in stacking up some theme decks is pretty cool. No one is at an advantage having done so, but honestly as supplementary material goes, it's a pretty tight way to package crunch.
Besides theme, there could be some real survival advantage in having a player deck with seven unique cards that use the character's best modifiers, and also match the character's power source(s), which would take a lot of risk out of the 'overcharge' option.
Quote from: Halfjack;412991The binding quality is ass.
Quote from: Halfjack;413000Dude, it's in a 6-point condensed typeface, a very light-weight cover around perfect binding (with the cover-wrap already coming away from the cover pages)
The binding on that book is exceptionally good. It's made of sewn signatures bound together with glue. The actual block of that book is about as sturdy as it gets, short of driving another stitch or staple through it, like the early AD&D books. The separation of the cover board from the spine is intentional. The plastic coated card of the cover is pasted down to the endpaper, which is glued to the back of the block, but only up to the hinge crease. This allows the outside of the spine to move independently, reducing stress on the block, and leaving the cover hinges as limber as the signatures. It's much better than the 4e hardcovers, where I've seen plenty of split hinges and loose pages.
Quote from: TAFMSV;413040The binding on that book is exceptionally good. It's made of sewn signatures bound together with glue. The actual block of that book is about as sturdy as it gets, short of driving another stitch or staple through it, like the early AD&D books. The separation of the cover board from the spine is intentional. The plastic coated card of the cover is pasted down to the endpaper, which is glued to the back of the block, but only up to the hinge crease. This allows the outside of the spine to move independently, reducing stress on the block, and leaving the cover hinges as limber as the signatures. It's much better than the 4e hardcovers, where I've seen plenty of split hinges and loose pages.
Yeah I know how the binding is supposed to work. Mine's falling apart. The cover wrap is half off the whole front page card and the first signature has come away from the glue altogether.
Quote from: Halfjack;413043Yeah I know how the binding is supposed to work. Mine's falling apart. The cover wrap is half off the whole front page card and the first signature has come away from the glue altogether.
Wow. That does suck. Please pardon my lecturing.