SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

So how hard is it to shoot something from a tank?

Started by -E., October 03, 2007, 08:30:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 2
User actions

flyingmice

#15
October 04, 2007, 02:58:15 PM
Here's how I would deal with it in SC:

Base chance = gunner's skill

Positive modifiers:
Gunsight
Rangefinder
Quick traversing turret
Short range
Target immobile
Target unaware and not avoiding
Good relative elevation
Platform stable or stabilized

Negative modifiers:

Target actively avoiding
Cover
Slow traversing turret
Poor visibility
Long range
Poor relative elevation
Platform unstable

Example: I watched a Hitler Channel (AKA History Channel) program on tanks. Apparently the Tiger had a rather slow traverse while the Sherman was rather fast. The combination meant the Tiger could not track a Sherman at full speed and point blank range.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

-E.

#16
October 04, 2007, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: Elliot WilenAgain I would defer to kregmosier, but that's more or less in line with what I seem to have seen in armor wargames, and for that matter other games like Avalon Hill's old Gunslinger. (The exact timescales, I'm not sure, I'm just talking the idea of taking into account the length of time that a target's visible.)

Basic idea: pick a visible target, if you shoot immediately you get a negative modifier. If you aim for a turn, you eliminate the negative. Each subsequent turn of aiming before firing gives you a bonus, up to some maximum. Target must be continuously visible during aiming.

Also I may be dreaming but I think I've seen games with longer time/turn scales, where the same effect is achieved by giving a modifier based on how many movement points (or the percentage of total MPs) the target expends while visible, before you take your shot.

But doesn't GURPS already have something like this with its snap shot and aiming rules? Combine that with a map, turn order, and regulation of movement by expending movement points, and I think you're very close.

Ah! Thanks: I never played those old tank games... but if they had such a thing then it's a pretty good bet it's a good model.

:)

I'll await someone w/ real-life experience to tell me *how* significant the negative is... but it sounds like a data point that indicates that kind of rule would be in the right direction.

And yeah: GURPS has all the framework for this... I'm not exactly sure if the scales are right, but the basic rules are very close.

Cool...
-E.
 

-E.

#17
October 04, 2007, 03:15:03 PM
Quote from: flyingmiceHere's how I would deal with it in SC:

Base chance = gunner's skill

Positive modifiers:
Gunsight
Rangefinder
Quick traversing turret
Short range
Target immobile
Target unaware and not avoiding
Good relative elevation
Platform stable or stabilized

Negative modifiers:

Target actively avoiding
Cover
Slow traversing turret
Poor visibility
Long range
Poor relative elevation
Platform unstable

Example: I watched a Hitler Channel (AKA History Channel) program on tanks. Apparently the Tiger had a rather slow traverse while the Sherman was rather fast. The combination meant the Tiger could not track a Sherman at full speed and point blank range.

-clash

Excellent -- this looks (to my inexpert eyes) remarkably comprehensive. Tell me: how impactful are those modifiers? Specifically "actively avoiding?"

Good stuff,
-E.
 

flyingmice

#18
October 04, 2007, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: -E.Excellent -- this looks (to my inexpert eyes) remarkably comprehensive. Tell me: how impactful are those modifiers? Specifically "actively avoiding?"

Good stuff,
-E.

It depends on the specifics of the game. In a WWII game, for example, Target actively avoiding should be significant, like -20%. In a current game, it should be mild, like -5%.

Many of these modifiers are situational. If tank A is at the top of a cliff and tank B at the foot of it, no amount of positive modifiers will allow tank A to depress its gun enought to hit tank B. If tank B is a quarter mile away, that's another story.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

arminius

#19
October 04, 2007, 05:34:41 PM
One thing in all this...the effect of target movement varies depending on range--as noted by the Sherman vs. Tiger issue. At long range even if you're moving perpendicular to the line of sight, it's easy to track you and traverse to bring a gun to bear. At short range, the opposite applies.

I seem to recall that GURPS had an elegant way of handling this, though I don't know if it was the old pre-3e ranged combat system or the one that was introduced in 3e.

arminius

#20
October 04, 2007, 05:37:12 PM
Also, I would definitely add quality of fire control computer to the modifiers.

And if you want to get armor-geeky, there's the matter of horizontal vs. vertical stabilization, and stabilized sights vs. stabilized gun.

-E.

#21
October 04, 2007, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: Elliot WilenAlso, I would definitely add quality of fire control computer to the modifiers.

And if you want to get armor-geeky, there's the matter of horizontal vs. vertical stabilization, and stabilized sights vs. stabilized gun.

I'm looking through my GURPS stuff to see if I can find the angular movement rules... and... I guess I ought to get into the whole horizontal / vertical / etc. etc. etc...

But let's face it: I also plan to use these rules for giant robots who carry their enormous assault rifles in their metal palms, so this level of detail might be diminishing returns...

Cheers,
-E.
 
Print
Go Up Pages 1 2
User actions