I'm a sucker for any game that covers a subject matter that isn't covered by a game I already own. I have games that use Indian mythology here and there but none based on it entirely. So, I googled reviews for the game and what I found was useless bullshit. About the only think they actually told me about the game is that it is an OSR game. I already knew it would be given the author. The rest of the "reviews" were just the reviewers virtue signaling and talking about how much they hate the author. That tells me a fair amount about them but nothing about the game.
I'm not an OSR guy. That a game hearkens back to the RPGs of my youth is not a selling point for me. It's more of a neutral point.
How well does that game work in play? How is the writing? How well does it explain its setting for someone who is only very slightly familiar with Indian mythology? I would like the impression of someone who knows the game and isn't bound and determined to hate it before even looking at it because they hate the author.
It's basically D&D with classes/levels and all the trappings, only shifted to epic/mythic India instead of medieval/fantasy Europe/Tolkien. It's got a pretty good overview of the setting and culture and is an easy read. It makes accommodations for the caste system and other Indian aspects and incorporates them into the rules and you can use it or ignore it as you see fit. I think it's a pretty good game if you like D&D but want to play in a setting that has not become quite so hackneyed as "medieval Europe with elves and hobbits."
I thought my review was pretty good.
(http://osrnews.blogspot.com/2014/04/arrows-of-indra-reviewfamiliar-rules.html)
But to answer your question, that's actually my big complaint - if you don't know anything about India (which I don't), you're pretty much screwed. While you get a general background, it's completely historical, it's not aimed at gaming. And the only adventure tools you are given is a really minimalistic random dungeon generator which is completely worthless. And as there are no adventures or further support for the game, you're completely on your own.
IMHO, it really needs a second edition, with the author reading Spears the Dawn and seeing how to present an unfamiliar culture as a game meant to be played, not a vanity project
Quote from: Matt;905705It's basically D&D with classes/levels and all the trappings, only shifted to epic/mythic India instead of medieval/fantasy Europe/Tolkien. It's got a pretty good overview of the setting and culture and is an easy read. It makes accommodations for the caste system and other Indian aspects and incorporates them into the rules and you can use it or ignore it as you see fit. I think it's a pretty good game if you like D&D but want to play in a setting that has not become quite so hackneyed as "medieval Europe with elves and hobbits."
So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?
I think so, myself. However, the game does presuppose that the GM does know something about the area and culture(s).
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?
Yeah, same rules set. I differ in that I think there's enough in the book that you don't need to research India. Besides, it's not India; it's the Bharata Kingdoms or whatever he called it.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;905745So if I wanted my D&D players to sail from D&D Europe to D&D India this might be the bunny?
I'd say so.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;905768I think so, myself. However, the game does presuppose that the GM does know something about the area and culture(s).
That is not true. Or at least, that's certainly not what I intended. ALL the information you need is in the book. I mean, unless you're talking about someone who literally doesn't know what an India is at all, like they never ever heard of the place or something.
I mean, is there something in the book that you can show me as an example, or something you can think of that you needed to know about India in order to run AoI that wasn't in the book?
Quote from: Matt;905883Yeah, same rules set. I differ in that I think there's enough in the book that you don't need to research India. Besides, it's not India; it's the Bharata Kingdoms or whatever he called it.
Bharata is a term from the Mahabharata. It is a term for all the civilized kingdoms of India at that time. It's not a word I just 'called it'. But of course, a player doesn't need to know that, they can imagine I just pulled it out of my ass and it won't change their ability to play.
Quote from: JeremyR;905725I thought my review was pretty good.
(http://osrnews.blogspot.com/2014/04/arrows-of-indra-reviewfamiliar-rules.html)
But to answer your question, that's actually my big complaint - if you don't know anything about India (which I don't), you're pretty much screwed. While you get a general background, it's completely historical, it's not aimed at gaming. And the only adventure tools you are given is a really minimalistic random dungeon generator which is completely worthless. And as there are no adventures or further support for the game, you're completely on your own.
IMHO, it really needs a second edition, with the author reading Spears the Dawn and seeing how to present an unfamiliar culture as a game meant to be played, not a vanity project
Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but again, can you give examples of things you needed to know in order to play a game in AoI, that isn't in the book? Can you actually get specific at all?
Also, the Patala Underworld is "minimalistic"? It goes on for pages and pages, divided by sections, and details a mythology-based megadungeon that is literally as large as the planet.
Quote from: yosemitemike;905700I'm a sucker for any game that covers a subject matter that isn't covered by a game I already own. I have games that use Indian mythology here and there but none based on it entirely. So, I googled reviews for the game and what I found was useless bullshit. About the only think they actually told me about the game is that it is an OSR game. I already knew it would be given the author. The rest of the "reviews" were just the reviewers virtue signaling and talking about how much they hate the author. That tells me a fair amount about them but nothing about the game.
I'm not an OSR guy. That a game hearkens back to the RPGs of my youth is not a selling point for me. It's more of a neutral point.
How well does that game work in play? How is the writing? How well does it explain its setting for someone who is only very slightly familiar with Indian mythology? I would like the impression of someone who knows the game and isn't bound and determined to hate it before even looking at it because they hate the author.
Just in case you haven't seen it yet, though I can totally understand your wanting to get impressions from people other than the author, here is my designer's notes Review of Arrows of Indra (http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/2014/11/rpgpundit-reviews-arrows-of-indra-by.html).
Quote from: RPGPundit;906706That is not true. Or at least, that's certainly not what I intended. ALL the information you need is in the book. I mean, unless you're talking about someone who literally doesn't know what an India is at all, like they never ever heard of the place or something.
I mean, is there something in the book that you can show me as an example, or something you can think of that you needed to know about India in order to run AoI that wasn't in the book?
I understand that, Pundit. What I'm referring to is what you just said: "
like they never heard of the place or something." Your game is complete in and of itself, and is very playable. The issue that I see 'on the ground' is that the vast majority of American gamers are pretty much unaware of anything outside what they see and can touch in their little portion of the universe; to be fair, most Americans are equally as unaware or anything outside our borders either. Quite a few Americans are surprised to learn that the vast region to the north of us is actually a foreign country.
And while we do have more then a few people living here who are from that portion of the globe that your game describes, their culture is just as alien to the vast majority of Americans as yours is. Phil ran into the same issue, not just with Tekumel, but with South Asia in general.
I like your game, Pundit. I could run it in my sleep. The problems I've had with getting players is that it's too alien a setting for the people I talk to at the FLGS; they just can't get their heads around all the bizarre religions and goofy names. Tain't about your game - remember, I did buy a copy because I liked it - it's about the culture. Gronan could run it with no problems; the people he games with actually know what Asia is, and what that big lumpy bit sticking out of the bottom is. (The lamb vindaloo yesterday was exquisite, but I digress.)
The FLGS and most game conventions I've been to over the years are full of the illiterate and the ignorant. If it ain't the latest mass market thing, they have no idea what it might be. You, Pundit, and the people on this forum have multiple brain cells that rub together on a regular basis; the vast majority of people I see, out in the field, simply don't. The contrast between the people I was talking about gaming and games with yesterday and today was like the difference between day and night. And that profoundly saddens me...
Quote from: chirine ba kal;906716I understand that, Pundit. What I'm referring to is what you just said: "like they never heard of the place or something." Your game is complete in and of itself, and is very playable. The issue that I see 'on the ground' is that the vast majority of American gamers are pretty much unaware of anything outside what they see and can touch in their little portion of the universe; to be fair, most Americans are equally as unaware or anything outside our borders either. Quite a few Americans are surprised to learn that the vast region to the north of us is actually a foreign country.
And while we do have more then a few people living here who are from that portion of the globe that your game describes, their culture is just as alien to the vast majority of Americans as yours is. Phil ran into the same issue, not just with Tekumel, but with South Asia in general.
I like your game, Pundit. I could run it in my sleep. The problems I've had with getting players is that it's too alien a setting for the people I talk to at the FLGS; they just can't get their heads around all the bizarre religions and goofy names. Tain't about your game - remember, I did buy a copy because I liked it - it's about the culture. Gronan could run it with no problems; the people he games with actually know what Asia is, and what that big lumpy bit sticking out of the bottom is. (The lamb vindaloo yesterday was exquisite, but I digress.)
The FLGS and most game conventions I've been to over the years are full of the illiterate and the ignorant. If it ain't the latest mass market thing, they have no idea what it might be. You, Pundit, and the people on this forum have multiple brain cells that rub together on a regular basis; the vast majority of people I see, out in the field, simply don't. The contrast between the people I was talking about gaming and games with yesterday and today was like the difference between day and night. And that profoundly saddens me...
I have to agree with Chirine on this one. I also bought Arrows of Indra, and as a long time Tekumel player I think it's really good. I could easily run a campaign with these rules, whether it's set in mythical India or Tekumel. The problem, however, is that it is too exotic for most players. Give them the old Orc and Elves campaign world and they are in their glory. Give them Ssu, or Nagas and they're lost. Too bad really.
Shemek.
I don't know much about India and Indian mythology but I'm not that damn ignorant. I know who Chandragupta was and have heard of and read a little of the Upanishads anyway.
I have never found Americans to be as comically ignorant as they are made out to be and I grew up in a farm town. Maybe it's because I live in California.
Quote from: yosemitemike;906728I don't know much about India and Indian mythology but I'm not that damn ignorant. I know who Chandragupta was and have heard of and read a little of the Upanishads anyway.
I have never found Americans to be as comically ignorant as they are made out to be and I grew up in a farm town. Maybe it's because I live in California.
I agree with you -
you do know about the subject, enough to recognize what you're looking at.
You may have smarter people out there on the West Coast - at least, more aware of other cultures. Here in 'fly-over' land; it's very different once you get away from the big urban areas (central Minneapolis and St. Paul). I'm basing my remarks on direct observations of my co-workers and the gamers I see at the various local game shops.
To quote my youngest sister, "most people are booger-eating morons."
That's her professional opinion as a marriage and family therapist, by the way.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;906758To quote my youngest sister, "most people are booger-eating morons."
That's her professional opinion as a marriage and family therapist, by the way.
The point that I'm trying to articulate, and probably not very well at that, is that I think that you'll have no problems with the game - it's fine. Depending on your game group, the culture may be an issue - but then, it was historically when Westerners arrived in the Middle Ages.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;906760The point that I'm trying to articulate, and probably not very well at that, is that I think that you'll have no problems with the game - it's fine. Depending on your game group, the culture may be an issue - but then, it was historically when Westerners arrived in the Middle Ages.
Well, if/when I use it, it literally will be "players travel from D&D Europe to D&D India," so the cultural disjoint will be okay. I'm probably going to get "Spears of Dawn" too, so that when they travel to D&D Africa I can have something more than extras from a Johnny Weismeuller movie.
Essentially I'm looking for "Quick Guide to X for role playing games". Yes, there are these lovely things called libraries, but time and energy are more limited than they used to be 35 years ago.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;906803Well, if/when I use it, it literally will be "players travel from D&D Europe to D&D India," so the cultural disjoint will be okay. I'm probably going to get "Spears of Dawn" too, so that when they travel to D&D Africa I can have something more than extras from a Johnny Weismeuller movie.
Essentially I'm looking for "Quick Guide to X for role playing games". Yes, there are these lovely things called libraries, but time and energy are more limited than they used to be 35 years ago.
Understood. From that perspective, "Arrows" is the better publication; the RPG in it is also very solid. I have "Spears", and it has a little less on the local cultures and a little more on the RPG side; nothing that can't be easily dealt with. Personally, I would love to see the 'domain game' with the D&D Zulu regiments giving the annoying tourists what-for. I also have "Heirs To The Lost World", which you can borrow if your players get blown off course. And please do remind them that they should not book passage with that kindly grandfather type who says he's an 'honest merchant seaman'; that way lies madness!
Quote from: chirine ba kal;906716I understand that, Pundit. What I'm referring to is what you just said: "like they never heard of the place or something." Your game is complete in and of itself, and is very playable. The issue that I see 'on the ground' is that the vast majority of American gamers are pretty much unaware of anything outside what they see and can touch in their little portion of the universe; to be fair, most Americans are equally as unaware or anything outside our borders either. Quite a few Americans are surprised to learn that the vast region to the north of us is actually a foreign country.
And while we do have more then a few people living here who are from that portion of the globe that your game describes, their culture is just as alien to the vast majority of Americans as yours is. Phil ran into the same issue, not just with Tekumel, but with South Asia in general.
I like your game, Pundit. I could run it in my sleep. The problems I've had with getting players is that it's too alien a setting for the people I talk to at the FLGS; they just can't get their heads around all the bizarre religions and goofy names. Tain't about your game - remember, I did buy a copy because I liked it - it's about the culture. Gronan could run it with no problems; the people he games with actually know what Asia is, and what that big lumpy bit sticking out of the bottom is. (The lamb vindaloo yesterday was exquisite, but I digress.)
The FLGS and most game conventions I've been to over the years are full of the illiterate and the ignorant. If it ain't the latest mass market thing, they have no idea what it might be. You, Pundit, and the people on this forum have multiple brain cells that rub together on a regular basis; the vast majority of people I see, out in the field, simply don't. The contrast between the people I was talking about gaming and games with yesterday and today was like the difference between day and night. And that profoundly saddens me...
Maybe I grossly underestimated the level of ignorance of the average American gamer, but somehow I don't think so. In Arrows of Indra, what you need to know beforehand is only that there's a place that exists called India, and the most basic facts (lots of gods, curries, saris, sitar music, etc). I mean, what you're saying would make sense to me if there are gamers that have LITERALLY ZERO knowledge about India, like
they literally do not know India exists. If a gamer shows up who knows literally absolutely nothing at all about India whatsoever, he might have some problems.
But FFS, if he knows even the most stereotypical knowledge of India from watching Temple of Doom, Apu on the Simpsons, etc. that should be enough that with the material in AoI he would be familiar enough to not have a problem playing in the setting.
And part of my point is that Epic India is not an alien planet. At the end of the day, most of the stuff you would do in the Bharata Kingdoms is the same stuff as you would do in Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms or Westeros or whatever. I don't get why people think that because it's a non-western culture that means what you'll go around doing is going to be enormously different.
Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;906725I have to agree with Chirine on this one. I also bought Arrows of Indra, and as a long time Tekumel player I think it's really good. I could easily run a campaign with these rules, whether it's set in mythical India or Tekumel. The problem, however, is that it is too exotic for most players. Give them the old Orc and Elves campaign world and they are in their glory. Give them Ssu, or Nagas and they're lost. Too bad really.
Shemek.
This seems insane to me, because I went OUT OF MY WAY to make it as close to regular D&D play as possible.
I don't really accept the argument. You're telling me that D&D players are fine with Thri-Kreen in Dark Sun or Draconians or whatever, but a Gandharva (which, as I pointed out, is just a kind of ELF, indian version) is a motherfucking bridge too far that makes play impossible and the setting incomprehensible?!
Sorry, but I think that at that point, you might need to be investigating whether the problem isn't really with a mental block people are putting in their heads about non-western cultures (as if Athas or Krynn were really 'western culture').
Nagas, at least, shouldn't thrown anyone for a loop... they're pretty common stuff in fantasy these days. World of Warcraft has them as a major enemy faction, they're also a faction in L5R, and there are some great big budget Asian fantasy films about them.
Quote from: RPGPundit;907122Sorry, but I think that at that point, you might need to be investigating whether the problem isn't really with a mental block people are putting in their heads about non-western cultures (as if Athas or Krynn were really 'western culture').
I think this may be a big part of it, and also a lot of people really just don't like anything unfamiliar.
Plus, most people are booger-eating morons.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;907146I think this may be a big part of it, and also a lot of people really just don't like anything unfamiliar.
Plus, most people are booger-eating morons.
Yeah. Well, that's why I keep trying to emphasize that people can play a Bharata Kingdoms campaign in the same way as they play any other D&D campaign. The heroic roots are much the same. Of course, an experienced GM can add more elements of Indian myth, culture, however much they want, but there's no reason that's a requirement!
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;907146I think this may be a big part of it, and also a lot of people really just don't like anything unfamiliar.
Plus, most people are booger-eating morons.
This, exactly. Indian/SE Asian culture is outside of the norm for most North Americans, IMO. This is at the root of the problem. The fact that Dark Sun, or what not, is just as, or in fact more exotic is incidental.
Many people will see AoI, and be either uninterested or intimidated and pass by. I don't know why. Maybe the names and concepts are just too unusual. They can't relate to it I guess. I just don't know.
Shemek.
Quote from: RPGPundit;907122This seems insane to me, because I went OUT OF MY WAY to make it as close to regular D&D play as possible.
I don't really accept the argument. You're telling me that D&D players are fine with Thri-Kreen in Dark Sun or Draconians or whatever, but a Gandharva (which, as I pointed out, is just a kind of ELF, indian version) is a motherfucking bridge too far that makes play impossible and the setting incomprehensible?!
Sorry, but I think that at that point, you might need to be investigating whether the problem isn't really with a mental block people are putting in their heads about non-western cultures (as if Athas or Krynn were really 'western culture').
Well, there's this saying along the lines that you can bring a horse to the water, but can't force him to drink, or something.
Frankly I see nothing wrong with the fact that people prefer
Darksun over hindu-based setting. Or more precisely nothing
surprising. Heck, I traveled through Asia, stayed in India for a while, and I'm probably the only male fan of Bollywood movies (also Kolly- and Tolly- FTW) you know, but I wouldn't really pick India-based/inspired setting over simple, plain, "Forgotten Realms"-like fantasy, not to mention
Darksun, which is friggin' awesome.
Quote from: yosemitemike;906728I don't know much about India and Indian mythology but I'm not that damn ignorant. I know who Chandragupta was and have heard of and read a little of the Upanishads anyway.
I have never found Americans to be as comically ignorant as they are made out to be and I grew up in a farm town. Maybe it's because I live in California.
Its not limited to calli there are very well read people all over the country there are also morons.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;906743I agree with you - you do know about the subject, enough to recognize what you're looking at.
You may have smarter people out there on the West Coast - at least, more aware of other cultures. Here in 'fly-over' land; it's very different once you get away from the big urban areas (central Minneapolis and St. Paul). I'm basing my remarks on direct observations of my co-workers and the gamers I see at the various local game shops.
I disagree as i sayed in my above post there are well read people all over the country.
Even here in no where Wisconsin.
In my honest experience the ''dumb country people stereotype" is so over represented and believed that it is pathetic.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;906760The point that I'm trying to articulate, and probably not very well at that, is that I think that you'll have no problems with the game - it's fine. Depending on your game group, the culture may be an issue - but then, it was historically when Westerners arrived in the Middle Ages.
Thats part of it the other thing is that in my experience India gets less attention then other country's so peoples back round knowledge is less.
Quote from: kosmos1214;907605In my honest experience the ''dumb country people stereotype" is so over represented and believed that it is pathetic.
In proportion to "dumb city people" it certainly is.
A lot of people just seem to be fine and dandy in their familiar rut. Happier than I am with life in general probably.
I suspect that most people don't play games to think.
Using an unfamiliar setting sets the expectation that they will need to think about the impact of the setting on their play.
Why spend the effort when there are so many other options?
=
Quote from: Simlasa;907652In proportion to "dumb city people" it certainly is.
A lot of people just seem to be fine and dandy in their familiar rut. Happier than I am with life in general probably.
Ill go with that it sounds about right.
Quote from: Greentongue;907759I suspect that most people don't play games to think.
Using an unfamiliar setting sets the expectation that they will need to think about the impact of the setting on their play.
Why spend the effort when there are so many other options?
=
You might be on to something here.
Though iv always been in groups that very much did think about the situation we where in and what are best course of action. ect. ect .
Quote from: JesterRaiin;907249Well, there's this saying along the lines that you can bring a horse to the water, but can't force him to drink, or something.
Frankly I see nothing wrong with the fact that people prefer Darksun over hindu-based setting. Or more precisely nothing surprising. Heck, I traveled through Asia, stayed in India for a while, and I'm probably the only male fan of Bollywood movies (also Kolly- and Tolly- FTW) you know, but I wouldn't really pick India-based/inspired setting over simple, plain, "Forgotten Realms"-like fantasy, not to mention Darksun, which is friggin' awesome.
If it was 'preference' we were talking about, I'd agree there's nothing wrong with it. I'm talking about familiarity. The world of the Bharata Kingdoms is way less weird or culturally distant than the world of the city-states of Dark Sun.
And the Bharata Kingdoms are awesome! They even have an enormous post-apocalyptic desert filled with monsters and ruined cities. You know, just like the ones in Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms.
Quote from: RPGPundit;908446If it was 'preference' we were talking about, I'd agree there's nothing wrong with it. I'm talking about familiarity. The world of the Bharata Kingdoms is way less weird or culturally distant than the world of the city-states of Dark Sun.
And the Bharata Kingdoms are awesome! They even have an enormous post-apocalyptic desert filled with monsters and ruined cities. You know, just like the ones in Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms.
Oh, I'm sure it's an interesting place, fun to visit and have some breathtaking adventures. I know it for a fact, because I've been reading a few books of yours and I know you like to work on tiny details while still thinking how those details fit in the Big Picture.
It's just that such earth-influenced settings exist behind door with a sign "
here be the road to a world that will probably require from you to study some real-world's history & stuff to enjoy, also, there's the problem that one of your players might actually know truckloads of those lands/cultures/religion so you're prevented from inventing just about any magical shit you want, sorry" nailed to them. These door are locked and the whereabouts of the key are currently unknown.
Now, funny thing is that while exotic settings are almost guaranteed to feature such an obstacle, plenty of other real-world influenced settings aren't free of it too. For example, I know people who won't ever touch anything Viking-themed, be it "Yggdrasil", "Fate of Norns" or even that *.world based game (I can't recall the title) but won't think twice about "some fantasy half-peasants, half-berserkers crossing sea, killing worshipers of other religion and pillaging the shit of their villages" scenarios.
Same goes to Greek/Rome/Slavic... Heck, you name it, certain people are probably still gonna skip it without even reading a few pages.
I don't think it should be approached
with reason and logic. It's just how things are - some (majority?) people won't be interested with a setting that implies studying some real-world things (religion, history, etc), while there are massive piles of fantasy worlds that allow you to simply pull things and explanations out of your arse just like that. And yeah, they are gonna happily buy dozens of sourcebooks covering some specifics about said fantasy lands, be it their history, or a society of elven kind.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;908601It's just that such earth-influenced settings exist behind door with a sign
The truth is that there is no door and no sign. I'm not writing a history book. I'm running a game. I
can make up whatever magical shit I want.
Quote from: yosemitemike;908655The truth is that there is no door and no sign. I'm not writing a history book. I'm running a game. I can make up whatever magical shit I want.
I agree with what we're allowed to do with the game/setting.
As for door/sign - I simply forgot to add "for certain people" there, but I thought it's obvious from the context.
BTW, same approach is true
for certain people who pick up RPGs based on some popular work of fiction. They are afraid to experiment with the setting, because "it would contradict canon". Martin's "ASoIaF" RPG often falls victim of this mindset. I think I recall people avoiding well known places in Star Wars RPG because they were afraid for their players to kill some iconic character like Luke, Vader, or Revan.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;908659I agree with what we're allowed to do with the game/setting.
As for door/sign - I simply forgot to add "for certain people" there, but I thought it's obvious from the context.
BTW, same approach is true for certain people who pick up RPGs based on some popular work of fiction. They are afraid to experiment with the setting, because "it would contradict canon". Martin's "ASoIaF" RPG often falls victim of this mindset. I think I recall people avoiding well known places in Star Wars RPG because they were afraid for their players to kill some iconic character like Luke, Vader, or Revan.
So what you really meant was that some very unreasonable people will complain. So what? That's what very unreasonable people do. The fact that it is based on myth and folklore should thrown any idea of historical accuracy out the window.
People get silly about that sort of thing but there's no actual restriction. They want to put up a door and s sign but neither is there.
Quote from: yosemitemike;908662So what you really meant was that some very unreasonable people will complain. So what? That's what very unreasonable people do. The fact that it is based on myth and folklore should thrown any idea of historical accuracy out the window.
People get silly about that sort of thing but there's no actual restriction. They want to put up a door and s sign but neither is there.
Precisely.
Then again, while it should be obvious that one is free to do whatever he/she wants with the game and its setting (it's in the introduction section of almost every core book I know about, ffs!), it seems plenty of people have trouble embracing the idea. And since it's not a rarity, it shouldn't be simply put away, considered irrelevant, "so what" & stuff. At least not when you're attempting to write and sell a game.
Understanding exact reasons behind it would require serious studies, but feel free to explain it in your own way. As far as I'm concerned, the unwillingness to study "source material" to avoid canon contradiction/confusion/making the mistake seems to be the one. ;)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;908665Pr
Understanding exact reasons behind it would require serious studies, but feel free to explain it in your own way. As far as I'm concerned, the unwillingness to study "source material" to avoid canon contradiction/confusion/making the mistake seems to be the one. ;)
I think it's simpler than that. People just don't want to study. The rest is just excuses.
Quote from: yosemitemike;908668I think it's simpler than that. People just don't want to study. The rest is just excuses.
I think people will happily study things they're actively interested in... like what's on sale at Ikea and where to find Pokemon for their phone fad. But a lot of folks don't really give two shits about the setting they're playing in as long as they can just show up and be entertained (and play Candy Crush on their phone when its not their turn).
Quote from: yosemitemike;908668I think it's simpler than that. People just don't want to study. The rest is just excuses.
Some? Most definitely and
there's no question about that.
Still... Remember Butcher's signature? "Too many games to play, too little time".
I can picture a guy who says "
it's Indian-like setting, so I'll probably gonna have to read Bhagavad Gita, Mahabharata and Ramayana, learn about guys with weird names like Maharaja Jaswant Singh, tell the difference between Kshatriyas and Musahars and then teach it to my players who know dick about India, with the exception of the fact they serve spicy food there. Finally I'll have to convince them it's a good idea to play that instead of something else... Forget it, I'm gonna pick Forgotten Realms instead and simply invent shit on the fly".
RPGs are a hobby. It can't get in the way of more important matters, and maaaaaan, life has no shortage of the latter. :(
Quote from: Simlasa;908671I think people will happily study things they're actively interested in...
If they were actively interested in that sort of thing, they probably would have already studied it. I do have a player that is very interested in the Golarion setting but by the time I had met him he had already read a lot about it including several novels.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;908601And yeah, they are gonna happily buy dozens of sourcebooks covering some specifics about said fantasy lands, be it their history, or a society of elven kind.
It's even weirder when some of those are practically cut and paste from history books.
Quote from: CRKrueger;908675It's even weirder when some of those are practically cut and paste from history books.
and then never read them.
Quote from: CRKrueger;908675It's even weirder when some of those are practically cut and paste from history books.
Heck, I've seen adventures that strangely resembled certain movie scripts, or video games. ;)
Quote from: CRKrueger;908675It's even weirder when some of those are practically cut and paste from history books.
Yes and no. In the case of something like AoI or Spears at Dawn I'm willing to spend a modest amount for a condensed reference with sufficient detail for gaming simply because of the convenience factor of not having to wade through the library. My time spent on this hobby is limited.
I was kind of on the fence about this one, but my interest went up after watching Bahubali a few weeks back with a friend. This thread nudged me enough to order it on ebay. At the very least, I might mine the setting info for use with something else (possibly Godbound, Barbarians of Lemuria, or something else)
Quote from: urbwar;908748watching Bahubali a few weeks back with a friend.
Somebody appreciates Indian cinema, yay! :o
If I may...
[video=youtube;eHOc-4D7MjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHOc-4D7MjY[/youtube]
It's drama/romance, so it's not everybody's cup of coffee, but I'd still encourage you to watch it (providing you didn't already), if not for the story then for the purpose of battle scenes alone. Indians become better and better at CGI.
I might check it out (I've got a few other Indian films to watch with my friend)
The next one we were going to watch is Puli, which going by the trailer, seems AoI appropriate viewing material
[video=youtube;U9kCY9psgOc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kCY9psgOc[/youtube]
Quote from: urbwar;908756I might check it out (I've got a few other Indian films to watch with my friend)
The next one we were going to watch is Puli, which going by the trailer, seems AoI appropriate viewing material
Ah, Puli. I didn't like it that much, but my wife did. ;)
As for RPG-relevant material... You know, while it's certainly neither new, nor especially creative idea, it occurred to me that AoI might be introduced in a similar fashion to how Andre Norton began her "Witch World" project - as a reality parallel to ours (or pretty much every other world), or as a world from our own past. And I recall an Indian movie that deals with the idea directly:
[video=youtube;cZsgbK4qY-I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZsgbK4qY-I[/youtube]
Well there is hope as I have been able to keep a Tekumel game alive for close to a year in Play by Post.
Someone else should be able to run Arrows of Indra if I can do that.
=
Just for more inspiration, the trailer for Bahubali
[video=youtube;sOEg_YZQsTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEg_YZQsTI[/youtube]
I'm kind of bummed Hulu no longer has the Mahabharat tv show available to watch for inspiration.
And my copy of AoI arrived in the mail today!
Quote from: yosemitemike;908668I think it's simpler than that. People just don't want to study. The rest is just excuses.
In Arrows of Indra, players shouldn't need to do any 'study' to interact with the world. At least, not unless the GM is running a really intentionally culturewank-heavy game.
Quote from: RPGPundit;909421In Arrows of Indra, players shouldn't need to do any 'study' to interact with the world. At least, not unless the GM is running a really intentionally culturewank-heavy game.
I'd say it applies to pretty much every RPG, no matter how big or small. ;)
Quote from: RPGPundit;909421In Arrows of Indra, players shouldn't need to do any 'study' to interact with the world. At least, not unless the GM is running a really intentionally culturewank-heavy game.
I only do that if I know the players are already interested. I did it in my DC game but everyone was a comic nerd.
Quote from: yosemitemike;909460I only do that if I know the players are already interested. I did it in my DC game but everyone was a comic nerd.
In my ICONS campaign, about half the party were comic nerds. I think the other half had a lot of fun discovering a lot of Golden Age heroes that they'd never heard of.
Quote from: RPGPundit;909550In my ICONS campaign, about half the party were comic nerds. I think the other half had a lot of fun discovering a lot of Golden Age heroes that they'd never heard of.
Mind if i ask witch ones?
I always liked Liberty Belle personally mostly because she throws peoples preconceived notions about early comics out the window.
Quote from: kosmos1214;910327Mind if i ask witch ones?
I always liked Liberty Belle personally mostly because she throws peoples preconceived notions about early comics out the window.
We used damn near all of them. Some of their favorites: Hourman, Sandman, Dr.Mid-nite, Liberty Belle, The Flash, Johnny Quick, Tarantula, Starman, the first and second Firebrand, Phantom Lady, the Crimson Avenger, Spy-Smasher, the Owl, and shit, so many more.
They were also very amused by some of the much weirder golden-age heroes: The original Red Tornado, the Black Condor (who was literally raised by condors and yet managed to impersonate a US Senator), Air Wave, the Black Terror, Catman, Mastermind Excello, The Blue Blade, Phantasmo the Master of the World, and the Blue Blade.
Quote from: RPGPundit;910550We used damn near all of them. Some of their favorites: Hourman, Sandman, Dr.Mid-nite, Liberty Belle, The Flash, Johnny Quick, Tarantula, Starman, the first and second Firebrand, Phantom Lady, the Crimson Avenger, Spy-Smasher, the Owl, and shit, so many more.
They were also very amused by some of the much weirder golden-age heroes: The original Red Tornado, the Black Condor (who was literally raised by condors and yet managed to impersonate a US Senator), Air Wave, the Black Terror, Catman, Mastermind Excello, The Blue Blade, Phantasmo the Master of the World, and the Blue Blade.
Cool thanks.