Quote from: Spinachcat;1096494If you control the language, you control the narrative. Change the meanings of words, then attack those who use the old definitions, and use the warped language to push your agenda.

Carlin did nail America's worship of soft language, and how we unfortunately go along with this farce.

[video=youtube;h67k9eEw9AY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67k9eEw9AY[/youtube]

God, I miss that man...

Quote from: moonsweeper;1096542God, I miss that man...

Enjoy Carlin's stuff while you can.

Soon enough he will be found "problematic" and deleted for our protection.

And all the doubleplusgoodthinkers will rejoice.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1096572Enjoy Carlin's stuff while you can.

I was surprised that you would endorse the statement that "Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that."

Quote from: Spinachcat;1096572Enjoy Carlin's stuff while you can.

Soon enough he will be found "problematic" and deleted for our protection.

And all the doubleplusgoodthinkers will rejoice.

Of course. Anyone who forewarns of an impending infestation/infiltration must be made to look bad or better yet erased so the general populace is more unsuspecting as they are co-opted.

Just take a look at the SJW bitching over the rather supernaturally precognitive bits in CP20202 recently.

Quote from: rawma;1096598I was surprised that you would endorse the statement that "Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that."

Depends on which smug, greedy, well-fed white people you think he's reffering to. Carlin was an equal opportunity offender. His bit about feminism is pretty great.

[video=youtube_share;c3gMELlrO3E]https://youtu.be/c3gMELlrO3E[/youtube]

Quote from: rawma;1096598I was surprised that you would endorse the statement that "Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that."

We see some of that here, but probably not the people you think it refers to.

Quote from: Omega;10964731: Could be new-speak for Therians. People who believe their spirit is really some other thing. An animal, a person, a rock, a videogame character (no I am not making that last one up), and so on. Theres been some weird drift in the Therian community over the decades. And it was weird to begin with. Sometimes its essentially reincarnation. Other times its more like channelling, and other times its whatever someone wants the term to mean.

Hm, interesting. I'd never heard of this term before. I looked it up and apparently it's similar to "otherkin" except where otherkin (and other, uh, -kin's) is specifically non-earthly entities, "therian" specifically connotes an earthly being of some kind. I can't say the concept itself is terribly surprising, I'm pretty sure I remember this type of thing proliferating on myspace.

Quote from: Omega;10964732: Sounds about right. Though in the past it referred to online RPs where a character could change genders. Like how it is depicted in a few sci-fi media which probably inspired it. Outside of RP characters seems to mean "Im in whatever camp I feel like (or suits my agenda) this current s/m/h-dd/mm/yy." Or whatever someone wants the term to mean.

This is actually a neat idea to me in the context of sci-fi settings, or any fantasy setting with a suitably "weird" race (for some reason my instinct is that a gender-swapping fantasy race might be aquatic or at least amphibious). I can't say I've ever had a player who would pick such a race for a longform campaign specifically due to such a trait, but it might be interesting to explore the cultural effects within the setting/society.

I will say I've had multiple players pick out non-gendered races to play such as ents before; my pet theory is that there could be less of a stumbling block there due to the fact that roleplaying games aren't really "about" gender in any significant way already, so removing it from the equation entirely doesn't change much from the player's point of view (whereas calling out a race that can physically swap genders might push the concept further into the equation, at least in a superficial way).

Quote from: GIMME SOME SUGAR;1096492The Two-Spirit theme is ripped from Native Americans hands: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/oct/11/two-spirit-people-north-america

It really just seems to mean that a person is a tomboy or a feminine man. On the weirder and weirder letter combinations out there I also read that they seem to eat their own in the LGBTQ+Windows10 community, especially people that identify as bisexuals, because bi signals only two genders and that is BAD. Pansexual seems to be the safest, most inclusive sexual identity one can have in these movements. I'm more pancake-sexual myself.

I've no issue with pancake-sexual people, but the terminology comes off as a little offensive and non-inclusive towards wafflesexuals such as myself.

Quote from: rawma;1096598I was surprised that you would endorse the statement that "Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that."

Why? It's true. White-leftist guilt-ridden, moralizing, self-loathing assholes are the ones that pushed all this. Carlin was spot-on.

Quote from: Gagarth;1096538Here are some more examples of the quota systems in action or pressure is be brought to have implemented.

https://hornet.com/stories/lgbt-representation-in-film
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/-inclusion-riders-make-inroads-a-year-after-star-turn-on-oscars
https://creativediversitynetwork.com/diamond/
https://www.glaad.org/sri/2018/vitorusso
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2018/lgbt-culture-and-progression

Yep. And we could produce more and more with very little effort. That's precisely why I'm accusing jhkim of playing stupid for rhetorical reasons. Because... if it's not a rhetorical position, then it would be extremely rude for me to call him a idiot. So either it's willful ignorance, or it's blind stupidity. Maybe at this point it doesn't matter.

Quote from: Gagarth;1096538Here are some more examples of the quota systems in action or pressure is be brought to have implemented.

https://hornet.com/stories/lgbt-representation-in-film
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-22/-inclusion-riders-make-inroads-a-year-after-star-turn-on-oscars
https://creativediversitynetwork.com/diamond/
https://www.glaad.org/sri/2018/vitorusso
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2018/lgbt-culture-and-progression

Quote from: tenbones;1096632Yep. And we could produce more and more with very little effort. That's precisely why I'm accusing jhkim of playing stupid for rhetorical reasons. Because... if it's not a rhetorical position, then it would be extremely rude for me to call him a idiot. So either it's willful ignorance, or it's blind stupidity. Maybe at this point it doesn't matter.

tenbones, let me try this again. You brought up the topic of quotas. I said that I didn't agree with them - that statistics could be an indication of prejudice, but weren't definitive.

You then accused me of claiming that *no one else* ever believed in quotas. If you continue to maintain this - please point the post where I say such.


Gagarth's examples are about minority (esp. LGBT) representation in media. People like to argue statistics because it gives some impression of being more objective and concrete, but ultimately representation is about subjective message - not statistics. LGBT advocates push for more representation, while conversely, anti-LGBT advocates claim that there are too many or too prominent LGBT characters. The problem is that focusing primarily on the statistics is flawed because it results in an attitude of just fulfilling the stats rather than addressing the causes.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1096630Hm, interesting. I'd never heard of this term before. I looked it up and apparently it's similar to "otherkin" except where otherkin (and other, uh, -kin's) is specifically non-earthly entities, "therian" specifically connotes an earthly being of some kind. I can't say the concept itself is terribly surprising, I'm pretty sure I remember this type of thing proliferating on myspace.

Theres ALOT of drift between Therian and Otherkin as alot of otherkin are really just therians with a new made up name for themselves. Half the time if someone says Therian they could mean something eartly and natural. Or very not. And same with otherkin. Half the time they mean something earthly and natural. Or very not.

It goes way back to at least the early to mid 80s. Pretty small. But when Werewolf came out. BOOM! By the mid 90s They were all over the place. I think around 2001 or later the "otherkin" moniker started getting used. Early on it was interchangeable with therian as by then therian could mean anything really. Both though tend to be pretty laid back and non-offensive overall. Least all the encounters I had with them at cons were pleasant ones. Unfortunately others have had the diametric opposite type of encounters. Mercifully very rare and well to be expected you'll get someone going too far in ANY venue.

For some odd reason various indie comic publishers just hated therians and later even more so otherkin. Still not sure what the rift was as they werent stealing away customers. Same group also didnt like costumers either. But after a while it was obvious that was because some were drawing away customers money as people started commissioning costumes. Ususally just a low level sort of "you iz competing with me!" sort of attitude. And no where near the level of hate they sometimes directed at eachother.

Probably the same was going on with RPGs but at a much slower rate. I seem to recall White Wolf not being too thrilled with therians liking Werewolf.

Quote from: Omega;1096655Theres ALOT of drift between Therian and Otherkin as alot of otherkin are really just therians with a new made up name for themselves. Half the time if someone says Therian they could mean something eartly and natural. Or very not. And same with otherkin. Half the time they mean something earthly and natural. Or very not.

It goes way back to at least the early to mid 80s. Pretty small. But when Werewolf came out. BOOM! By the mid 90s They were all over the place. I think around 2001 or later the "otherkin" moniker started getting used. Early on it was interchangeable with therian as by then therian could mean anything really. Both though tend to be pretty laid back and non-offensive overall. Least all the encounters I had with them at cons were pleasant ones. Unfortunately others have had the diametric opposite type of encounters. Mercifully very rare and well to be expected you'll get someone going too far in ANY venue.

Huh, interesting. I only rarely had any awareness of these groups starting in the mid-90's (this explains why), it's interesting to hear the pre- and post-90's history since I haven't exactly had my finger on the pulse of any of these communities and I generally try to avoid cons altogether. I was definitely aware of the Werewolf phenomenon, having been in several gaming clubs throughout the late 90's and early 00's (though, goths were still a thing, and while there was definite overlap with that group and therians it wasn't always straightforward to discern which from which without it coming up in conversation somehow; at least the ones I met tended to have fairly similar stylistic tastes...). I can't say I had negative experiences with any of them, aside from some just having odd social tendencies in general (hardly unique to them, most of the kids in our gaming clubs were at least a little odd).

Quote from: Omega;1096655Probably the same was going on with RPGs but at a much slower rate. I seem to recall White Wolf not being too thrilled with therians liking Werewolf.

LOL. Yeah, I could imagine them wanting to avoid certain possible associations. I remember reading one of the WW novels when I was younger, "Conspicuous Consumption" I think, and I remember midway through there was a somewhat graphic scene featuring "heated" werewolf-on-human, mid-transformation sex. I couldn't help but think "who exactly was this written for...?"

Quote from: Antiquation!;1096670LOL. Yeah, I could imagine them wanting to avoid certain possible associations. I remember reading one of the WW novels when I was younger, "Conspicuous Consumption" I think, and I remember midway through there was a somewhat graphic scene featuring "heated" werewolf-on-human, mid-transformation sex. I couldn't help but think "who exactly was this written for...?"

Probably a nod to that scene in The Howling. Ironic as WW borrowed ideas from it so heavily.

Werewolf sex goes back to folklore, and probably much further back in oral storytelling.

It's that forbidden bestiality and joy of rough sex...and why Beauty and the Beast is such a popular tale.

A few years ago, I met a ex-Disney artist and she does custom erotica art on commission. Let's just say her "Beast on Belle" sketches pay lots of bills....and her clients aren't dudes.

Quote from: rawma;1096598I was surprised that you would endorse the statement that "Smug, greedy, well-fed white people have invented a language to conceal their sins. It's as simple as that."

100% endorsement from me.

I'm the guy who says SJWs are the proof "white supremacy" can't exist. No superior race would spawn such garbage. But since the "white race" has not only birthed SJWs, but coddled them in academia and exalted them in the media, any claims to "white supremacy" is laughable.

I'm also the guy who happily and regularly shat upon the Religious Right during the 80s and beyond for their self-serving hypocrisy, and their Neo-Con bastard spawn and neither group was known for their "diversity".

I'm a free speech advocate. My allies come in all colors, creeds and both genders. A core element of free speech is honest speech, real words with visceral definitions, not the laughable and lifeless bullshit of PC speech.

Also, I empathize with Carlin's anger at "white people" as his was the last generation who could remember the low population USA of dirt roads and vast natural spaces, before the paving over of the beauty of the continent with endless highways, housing tracts and mini-malls.

Quote from: tenbones;1096631Why? It's true. White-leftist guilt-ridden, moralizing, self-loathing assholes are the ones that pushed all this. Carlin was spot-on.

Exactly.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1096703I'm the guy who says SJWs are the proof "white supremacy" can't exist. No superior race would spawn such garbage. But since the "white race" has not only birthed SJWs, but coddled them in academia and exalted them in the media, any claims to "white supremacy" is laughable.

Its just a Memetic virus like Communism.  It takes a while for a Culture to build up resistance and it may get worse before it starts getting better like Parachute pants in the 80s.