Quote from: Trond;957694We never had a problem with the percentage values in BRP or similar games, so I don't see the issue. The one game I have tried where the large numbers did get a bit clunky was Rolemaster (in which you typically have a bonus which can be anything from, say, -20 to 100 or more, plus minus various variables, added to a open-ended D100 roll)

Rolemaster is really a different animal altogether: same dice, completely different mechanic.  And yes, it has too much fiddly math for comfortable play, especially if beer is involved, which is too bad as I otherwise rather like Rolemaster, MERP, and HARP.

D100 games like BRP on the other hand have very minimal math so I don't see the issue either. In fact, I think BRP, and games like it, are considerably simpler and more transparent in play than most versions of D&D.

I love D100 game systems! Especially Call of Cthulhu and Stormbringer/ELRIC!

Quote from: Spinachcat;957499What do you think are the best selling points of BRP/D100 games? What draws you in?

I think the system itself is simple and easy to grasp, and very easy to port over stats/options from other D100 systems.

Quote from: Spinachcat;957499What's the common issues that new players to these games experience? What are the common misconceptions?

Spending Skill points during character creation! It usually take new players forever because the skill list is very vast. On top of which, as a player, what you thought would be useful might not be, so a well-rounded character may actually suck at some fairly important stuff within the game!

Quote from: yojimbouk;957677That was certainly true of RuneQuest 1&2. They evolved from Steve Perrin's D&D rules that took thief skills and applied them to weapon skills and other non-combat skills.

Never seen RQ1, but RQ2, at least, has "specials" on 1/5 of skill and "criticals" on 1/20 of skill, so there is still an effect to using d100 instead of d20, even with all the base skill levels being multiples of 5%.

Unless you want to roll a second die, of course.  You could roll 2d20 with one determining success/fail and the other indicating critical on 1 and special on 2-4.  Still rolling two dice of the same shape, but a little less math for those who have problems with it.

Quote from: Madprofessor;957688That said, a percentile system is entirely intuitive for most people and works well for new players.  Most people have a pretty firm grasp of equating percentages and probabilities

You'd think so, but, back in the days of City of Heroes, I seem to recall reading about how most people think "80% chance" means "it will happen almost every time".  And I've seen that first-hand many, many times from people insisting that the RNG in XCom (or other computer games) is obviously cheating because shots with 85% to hit should practically never miss, and they just missed two of them back-to-back.

Quote from: nDervish;957866You'd think so, but, back in the days of City of Heroes, I seem to recall reading about how most people think "80% chance" means "it will happen almost every time".  And I've seen that first-hand many, many times from people insisting that the RNG in XCom (or other computer games) is obviously cheating because shots with 85% to hit should practically never miss, and they just missed two of them back-to-back.

Well ok but, a d100 is *exactly* as random as any other die.  Missing on an 85% on a d100 is exactly the same as missing on a 1-3 on a d20, it is also very close to missing on a 1 on a d6 or a 7 or less on 3d6.  Any dice probability can be mapped out in percentages. I'm not saying it's you, but there seems to be a perception in this thread that d100 is somehow more random than other dice because the numbers are bigger... er something.  Did those xcom players pass the 4th grade?

Snide remarks aside, I haven't met too many gamers who are that fundamentally behind in math, and stand by my comment that a roll under d100 percentile system is more instantly intuitive and transparent, as far as recognizing probabilities, than other dice mechanics.  Most people work with or encounter percentages on a nearly daily basis from a young age.  We're culturally trained to recognize probabilities in terms of percentages.

Quote from: Madprofessor;957880Well ok but, a d100 is *exactly* as random as any other die.  Missing on an 85% on a d100 is exactly the same as missing on a 1-3 on a d20, it is also very close to missing on a 1 on a d6 or a 7 or less on 3d6.  Any dice probability can be mapped out in percentages. I'm not saying it's you, but there seems to be a perception in this thread that d100 is somehow more random than other dice because the numbers are bigger... er something.  Did those xcom players pass the 4th grade?

The real debate is bell curve (mostly in the form of 3d6) versus linear probability (d20, d100, etc).

Bell Curve probabilities are less swingy in that the result cluster in the middle of the curve. So it feel more predictable than linear probabilities which can feel all over the place. Bell Curve also has the characteristic that once you push your bonus so that you rolling above the middle hump of the curve then your odds of success go dramatically up.

If you juggle progression, and odds of success correctly then you can make one work like the other. What it boils down is how you want your progression to look like. With d100 it is even as you increase your skill. With 3d6 you get a little at first, then it ramps up a bit as you hit the middle of the curve, then even out as you traverse the middle of the curve, and then your odds dramatically increase when you start hitting the other side of the curve.

This progression is particularly obvious with Fate/Fudge dice which has a steep hump as its bell curve.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with this, you can play with these at anydice.com

http://anydice.com/program/76eb For fate rolls, for example.

I like 'em cuz they're relatively simple to understand.  1 to 100, anything else is basic additive/subtractive math I learned in school that never left me.

Quote from: Madprofessor;957880Well ok but, a d100 is *exactly* as random as any other die.

Quote from: Madprofessor;957880there seems to be a perception in this thread that d100 is somehow more random than other dice because the numbers are bigger... er something.

Well...  That defines on how you define degrees of randomness.  I would actually say that a d100 (or other linear distribution) is more random than 3d6 (or other curved distribution) because your chances of guessing the result of a curved roll prior to rolling are substantially better than your chances of guessing a linear roll with the same range.  If I try to guess a d100, I only have a 1% chance to be right, but for 5d100/5, I can guess 50 and have about a 3% chance of getting it.

Also, my impression from the discussion around the "RNG cheating" claims is that, even when the complainers have been saying all the right things to show an intellectual understanding of how percentages work, they don't really grok it on an intuitive level and expect most results to cluster around the average - "Well, yeah, any number from 1 to 100 is equally likely, but 50 is the average, so it should be about 50 most of the time."  Bell curves meet that expectation.  Linear distributions don't, which leads to people misunderstanding them.

I still don't get how people will insist that linear distributions and curved distributions make a lick of difference in a mechanic centered around rolling against a target number. It will make a difference when generating set of numbers, when dealing with modifiers, successlevels and averages, but that's where the actual design-bit in gamedesign comes in.
The BRP-d100's main advantage over many of the others is its ridiculous simplicity and transparency (making it easy to understand and use), combined with a fairly high degree of granularity and modularity (making it very versatile), and topped off with a solid core designed around it. As an RNG, it is just one of many. As a core gamemechanic, it's pretty nifty.

A lot of reasons for folks using 3d6 (and variants). Not the least of which is that d6 is available at the local gas station. Folks are familiar with craps, and thus bell curves are somewhat culturally ingrained. They pay attention to the result and not the probability.

The granularity does contribute to the perception of randomness. You can miss by 1 in a d100 and 1 in a d20 and they are a lot different - 5x as much

I think for my group the blackjack resolution was the hard part. However, I had also never heard the term before this thread, and saying that makes perfect sense now - highest without going over, just like blackjack.

It also helped me think about how to implement advantage/ disadvantage ala d&d5e. I like the mechanic, but I was getting hung up for doing it d100. I just need to remember "highest within the band" and it'll work just fine.

Some of the Boons of BRP and its kin:

Simple, transparent mechanics that get out of the way, IMO, and this aids in IC play.
For the most part, verisimilitude and human scale is the base line - especially for combat.
Elegant and natural advancement system - though it can be abused if a GM doesn't know how to handle it.
There are lots of magic systems to chose from - but none of them are as systematic or complete as D&D. For me that makes magic seem more mysterious (and magical?).
Versatile! - there are tons of options and ways to tweek or blend the games.
Pretty much zero gamist or narativist influence.  It's pretty straight old school traditional RPG - whatever the hell that means.

Banes:
None for me, but all of the above could be for some.

Quote from: Raleel;958140It also helped me think about how to implement advantage/ disadvantage ala d&d5e. I like the mechanic, but I was getting hung up for doing it d100.

Zweihänder basically does percentile "Advantage/Disadvantage", in the guise of "Flip to Succeed" and "Flip to Fail".  It's pretty much what it says on the tin - after rolling the dice, switch the tens and the ones if that will change a failure to success or vice-versa, depending on which you've got.

TBH what CoC 7e does for Advantage/Disadvantage (rolling an extra 10's die) works well enough for me in any d100/BRP game and avoids the issue with some players switching their 10's and units dice 'by mistake'.

Quote from: nDervish;958351Zweihänder basically does percentile "Advantage/Disadvantage", in the guise of "Flip to Succeed" and "Flip to Fail".  It's pretty much what it says on the tin - after rolling the dice, switch the tens and the ones if that will change a failure to success or vice-versa, depending on which you've got.

yea, that's an option I read somewhere and started using a while ago. Very popular with my group, because they can predict the result, I suspect.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;958369TBH what CoC 7e does for Advantage/Disadvantage (rolling an extra 10's die) works well enough for me in any d100/BRP game and avoids the issue with some players switching their 10's and units dice 'by mistake'.

I had thought of this, though I've not spent the time to figure the odds on it.

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;958369TBH what CoC 7e does for Advantage/Disadvantage (rolling an extra 10's die) works well enough for me in any d100/BRP game and avoids the issue with some players switching their 10's and units dice 'by mistake'.

Do they not establish one color for 10s and another for 1s, or use those dice that have 00-90 on one and 0-9 on the other?