Five more might be a bit much for new players to deal with, but three above PC level is a tough but doable fight, even at second level. It's a single fifth level foe, which they can expend every resource against without having to hold back. A troll or an ettin skeleton are examples of CR 5 monsters a second level party could take on.

A few more notes for Melinglor:

Intelligent undead have CRs vastly lower than their abilities warrant. So do Dragons. Avoid both with low level PCs. Figure they're about one and a half CRs lower than they should be, at least.

Outsiders are have higher CRs than they really deserve, with a few exceptions at high level. This is because of their nifty spell-like abilities. If you do not plan to use the SLAs of the outsiders, their CRs should be dropped by one or two.

Remember that you're supposed to adjust the CR if things are heavily balanced in the favour of one side or another. A good rule of thumb is that if the enemies get to prepare the battlefield (selecting positions beforehand, laying traps, changing the layout) then their CRs should be one higher than they would be otherwise. If the PCs can easily retreat and are able to take the foe on at their leisure, the enemy should have a CR one lower than they otherwise would.

Abyssal--I hadn't spotted that "per level" bit on the RP rewards. Thanks! That makes the XP total look a lot more robust.

Quote from: Abyssal MawI am kinda surprised at another issue. In previous conversations I got the impression (maybe this is my mistake) that you felt like D&D had ruined your roleplaying experiences  or something, but here it seems your'e actually totally new to it. Did I somehow get the wrong impression?

I'm not new to playing the game, just to DMing it. in the past, when I've played, I've hread the bulk of the PHB and been familiar with my own class' (usually Rogue) set of abilities and skills, but not necessarily the whole scope of the mechanics. F'rinstance, when I started playing a spellcaster a few months ago, it's only then that I started reading up on ann the spell effects. And now I've got the DMG stuff to add in to my understanding, and orchestrate everything based on all these charts and factors. So I appreciate all the help I can get. Especially on handling Exp and CR, since that's pretty much brand new to me.

As far as whether D&D "ruined" my roleplaying, I never intended to give that impression. I've had a lot of frustrating roleplaying experiences, and many of them involved D&D. I think D&D tends to carry with it a certain mindset and set of assumptions which are detrimental to the enjoyment of some (like me), but that's only ONE factor of the frustration. There are things about D&D that I particularly don't like, such as Alignment. And, for instance, the class and level system has a lot of fun elements, but seems to focus play in a direction that's not my favorite. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the game! I'm approaching this campaign with a positive outlook, seeking to mine D&D for the stuff it really does well, and listen to my players so we can jointly craft the most enjoyable play experience possible.

Pseudoephedrine:

Thanks for the input. I had a general understanding of the CR principle going in, and I'm just getting the kinks out as far as individual circumstances go. Developing an instinct for the ol' Hairy Eyeball, as Redfox says. Point taken about bumping the CR if they're getting in less fights per day. That's the direction my thought was leaning in too.

Oh, and thanks so much for the tip on deceptive CRs. That's the kind of thing I need to know going in. Especially since we've got several dragonlovers in the group (myself included), and i'm itching to see when I can throw one at 'em.

'Course, A Dragon encounter can be just as much about negotiation as combat. . .provided the players consider that. :hehe:

A final note on the bouncer issue: I've got that one worked out for myself, I think. I understand what I did and how I could have done it differently. I didn't want them to be a huge challenge; it's only when I got to the Exp award that I thought "wait, that ain't right." But yeah, I could have given them at least some Leather, and the feat suggestions are very apt. In fact, I've done similar with the City Watch and Bandit Gang i wrote up for the future. So cool. I'm getting the hang of it.

Peace,
-Joel

Edit: I really like your idea for the "scion of Alignment award, Redfox. That sounds like a cool way to work alignment in above and beyond the "well, it's a targetting keyword for certain spells, and, uh, a rough guide to, uh, something" approach that we've got going so far.

Actually, it ties in interestingly to an alignment discussion going on over here. I'll have to give more thought to all thie ideas presented in both places.

Quote from: RedFoxScion of Alignment Award The PC receives an Action Point any time the PC acts in accordance with their Alignment, if it has direct negative consequences for him/herself.

I just wanted to explore this a bit more before the thread got too buried. I've been thinking through the practical issues of implementing this standard, and the one question I have is: what about the evil alignments? It's hard to think of of a lot of ways a character could act Evilly (that is, supremely self-interested) in a way which brings negative consequences. Oh, sure, there are big, grand ways in which selfish acts can blow up on a person, in a climactic "See, that is why you will ever fail, Lord Dreadclaw! Because you have not the trust of friends, as we have learned to trust one another!" kind of way. But for AP disbursal, I need more everyday kinds of ways for PCs to earn them, to be roughly fair to chars of all alignments.

Redfox*, any ideas?

Peace,
-Joel

*or anyone else, really.