Quote from: winkingbishop;384117Bite your tongue, you're likely to curse someone with statements like that.  MERP is as close as I got and that was too close.  

Role Master is not hard, and there are actually several versions of the game now, including Role Master Express, which is like the rules-light approach to the system. Come on... I know you want to!

Hmm...rolemaster...
...

In Dragon Age, do the doubles have to be on the 2 non-dragon-dice, or do any 2 dice work? If the latter, I'm guessing you could throw away the dragon die and just have a rule like 'if you roll doubles, you get stunt points equal to the 3rd die (the one that wasn't a double).

I'll join the gang on ambivalence about declaring your stunt after you've rolled your dice. Tunnels and Trolls has a mechanic that could patchfix this: in T&T rolling doubles lets a character go 'berserk' (and roll up), and on later rounds they get 'artificial' doubles by having to lower the higher roll to match the lower one.

Stealing this approach, you might let a character declare a stunt in advance, then have to adjust one of their other rolls down, or their highest roll down, to make it a double e.g. if you roll a 3,4, and 5 you adjust the '5' into a second '3' and claim you rolled doubles, taking an effective -2 penalty.

This gets the disclaimer that I don't really know how Dragon Age works specifically and could be wildly unbalancing; its just a thought.

Quote from: Benoist;384139Role Master is not hard, and there are actually several versions of the game now, including Role Master Express, which is like the rules-light approach to the system. Come on... I know you want to!

ACK, no!  Getitoffme!  This system touches me in bad places.  I buried most of it in my subconscious but sometimes at night I remember a Movement Maneuvers table or some other kind of bullshit that makes me roll just to walk around.

Look at how cute Express Edition is at 88 pages.  One click in, did you see what these smarmy bastards did here?  For the reasonable price of 2 US$ per click you can continue to expand on this already soul-fucking system.

Quick, what's my chance to run away at full run over mostly flat ground but with a little bit of rock in the way?

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;384161Stealing this approach, you might let a character declare a stunt in advance, then have to adjust one of their other rolls down, or their highest roll down, to make it a double e.g. if you roll a 3,4, and 5 you adjust the '5' into a second '3' and claim you rolled doubles, taking an effective -2 penalty.

This gets the disclaimer that I don't really know how Dragon Age works specifically and could be wildly unbalancing; its just a thought.

It might be the heavy migraine I'm rocking plus zero knowledge of T&T, but this is kind of a mind-hump to me. What you're describing is basically handicapping your NEXT roll if you choose to use a stunt.  Am I catching that correctly?

Unrelated to BSJ and back to what others have proposed earlier in this post:  I'm not sure why and won't claim it's rational, but I get a dirty feeling when I think of a stunt mechanic that allows you to "store" dice or stunt points or whatever the resource might be.  I catch a whiff of computerized RPGs.  I imagine PCs attacking orc women and children they would otherwise bypass in order to "bank" stunt points.  I taste PCs hoarding stunt points until the later encounters in the session/adventure.  Crazy?

Quote from: winkingbishop;384179Quick, what's my chance to run away at full run over mostly flat ground but with a little bit of rock in the way?

LOL

Shut the fuck up and roll the dice! Maybe there's a pebble flying up into your eye!

Quote from: winkingbishop;384123This scenario illustrates a mental problem I'm having with all of these proposed stunt systems.  You don't have your results until the dice are rolled as part of an attack.  How do they interact with movement?

Forgive me if I can't get out of a D&D frame of mind, but I'm thinking that a turn will consist of a movement phase and an attack.  You need to approach the guy before making your attack.  But in Dragon Age you can perform stunts that have a movement component?  Like this bullrush?

Maybe I'm thinking too grainy.  Does Dragon Age use narrative combat or minis?  If you choose to perform a bullrush stunt after you have already moved do you just pretend the movement hasn't happened yet?

Just can't get my noodle completely around these stunts being declared after the attack roll is made.  I'm much more comfortable in my little box where the player chooses their action first and it subsequently affects die rolls.

Well, to be fair what I just proposed does deviate from the Dragon Age rules, as you would typically not be granted stunt points for a failed attack.

But basically the way the action economy is set up in DA, per round characters have one minor action (moving one's speed, drawing a weapon, quaffing a potion, etc.) and one major action (making an attack, a skill test or casting a spell)

In the case of a charge action, the run and the strike itself are considered part of the same major action, as in D&D 3.0 and up.

Stunts are free actions that take place during a character's turn.

So the sequence of events goes like this:

1: Kull uses a minor action to move closer to the orc
2: Kull declares that he will use a major action to make a charge attack against the orc.
3: Kull rolls to hit the orc, but does not roll high enough. The roll does however, grant him two stunt points.
4: Kull declares that he will spend the 2 stunt points to make a bullrush agaisnt the orc.
5: Orc rolls a saving throw to resist being pushed and fails.
6: Orc is pushed back half of Kull's movement rate and is sent tumbling to the depths below.

Quote from: Shazbot79;384229Well, to be fair what I just proposed does deviate from the Dragon Age rules, as you would typically not be granted stunt points for a failed attack.

But basically the way the action economy is set up in DA, per round characters have one minor action (moving one's speed, drawing a weapon, quaffing a potion, etc.) and one major action (making an attack, a skill test or casting a spell)

In the case of a charge action, the run and the strike itself are considered part of the same major action, as in D&D 3.0 and up.

Stunts are free actions that take place during a character's turn.

So the sequence of events goes like this:

1: Kull uses a minor action to move closer to the orc
2: Kull declares that he will use a major action to make a charge attack against the orc.
3: Kull rolls to hit the orc, but does not roll high enough. The roll does however, grant him two stunt points.
4: Kull declares that he will spend the 2 stunt points to make a bullrush agaisnt the orc.
5: Orc rolls a saving throw to resist being pushed and fails.
6: Orc is pushed back half of Kull's movement rate and is sent tumbling to the depths below.

I believe I understand. Thank you.

Quote from: winkingbishop;384233I believe I understand. Thank you.

Oh also, to answer your other question, combat is meant to be mostly narrative, I believe.

Quote from: winkingbishop;384182It might be the heavy migraine I'm rocking plus zero knowledge of T&T, but this is kind of a mind-hump to me. What you're describing is basically handicapping your NEXT roll if you choose to use a stunt.  Am I catching that correctly?

Yup. Sorry, I ramble.

What I was suggesting was that you could demand your next roll be a stunt.
-If you roll and it would have been a stunt anyway (doubles), all well and good. -If not, you get your stunt but take a penalty to the roll. So, your stunt is more likely to fail.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;384239Yup. Sorry, I ramble.

What I was suggesting was that you could demand your next roll be a stunt.
-If you roll and it would have been a stunt anyway (doubles), all well and good. -If not, you get your stunt but take a penalty to the roll. So, your stunt is more likely to fail.

If it were me, a player wishes to bullrush an opponent from the outset, I'd simply have him make an opposed strength test vs. the intended target, modified by whatever mitigating factors were present, e.g. the targets size, reach, etc.

Quote from: Shazbot79;384242If it were me, a player wishes to bullrush an opponent from the outset, I'd simply have him make an opposed strength test vs. the intended target, modified by whatever mitigating factors were present, e.g. the targets size, reach, etc.

The only problem with that is mechanically you are bypassing AC (in a D&D type game).
Now you might argue that is becuase AC is inherently flawed (a guy in plate is easier to 'hit' in reality but harder to hurt) but its pretty much hardcoded into the system.

Quote from: jibbajibba;384279The only problem with that is mechanically you are bypassing AC (in a D&D type game).
Now you might argue that is becuase AC is inherently flawed (a guy in plate is easier to 'hit' in reality but harder to hurt) but its pretty much hardcoded into the system.

True...but Dragon Age uses armor as damage reduction rather than hit evasion.

Quote from: jibbajibba;384279The only problem with that is mechanically you are bypassing AC (in a D&D type game).
Now you might argue that is becuase AC is inherently flawed (a guy in plate is easier to 'hit' in reality but harder to hurt) but its pretty much hardcoded into the system.

In a D&D type game...
Scarily enough 3.0/3.5 bull rush (as written) ignores AC too - it just a matter of opposed STR checks.
2E, at least in the fighter's handbook, you usually did have to hit their AC, followed by defender Dexterity roll to avoid (Shield Rush) or Riding check (Dex+1) (Jousting attack for 8 or more damage).

Quote from: Shazbot79;384299True...but Dragon Age uses armor as damage reduction rather than hit evasion.

Which is fine.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;384301In a D&D type game...
Scarily enough 3.0/3.5 bull rush (as written) ignores AC too - it just a matter of opposed STR checks.
...

I am sure that the 10th level guy with uber dex and magical AC bonuses coming out of the wazzoo thought that it was entirely fair that the 1st level Orc could push him over a cliff to certain death