Quote from: jeff37923;652096Instead of "low violence" or "non-lethal violence", just say "cartoon violence" and that is far more accurate without the wordplay. Teenagers From Outer Space, for example, has bonk instead of hit points - if you are damaged beyond your bonk score, than you sit out of the action for the number of rounds equal to how many points your bonk score was exceeded. You can still have an anvil dropped on your character, but instead of death, the character just sits there for awhile slowly wheezing in and out like an accordian a la Wile E. Coyote.

The violence is still there, it is just handled differently.

There are two factors here:  one is the lethality of the violence, and one is the frequency of the violence.  For example, some superhero games are based on four-color comics with no killing - but that genre is still loaded with fighting.  Likewise, Toon have completely non-lethal combat - but the genre of Looney Tunes adventures is also loaded with combat.  

Teenagers from Outer Space, though, isn't necessarily loaded with combat.   Some of the inspirational media features more standard sitcom fare of social embarrassment, romantic misadventures, mistaken identity, and other gags rather than violent slapstick.  

Likewise, The Zorcerer of Zo is based on the Oz stories - which have rare bits of violence, but nowhere near the frequency of a typical Looney Tunes episode.

Quote from: jhkim;652181There are two factors here:  one is the lethality of the violence, and one is the frequency of the violence.  For example, some superhero games are based on four-color comics with no killing - but that genre is still loaded with fighting.  Likewise, Toon have completely non-lethal combat - but the genre of Looney Tunes adventures is also loaded with combat.  

Teenagers from Outer Space, though, isn't necessarily loaded with combat.   Some of the inspirational media features more standard sitcom fare of social embarrassment, romantic misadventures, mistaken identity, and other gags rather than violent slapstick.  

Likewise, The Zorcerer of Zo is based on the Oz stories - which have rare bits of violence, but nowhere near the frequency of a typical Looney Tunes episode.

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

Let me help you. This is not about the media that inspired the games, but about the games and how they play.

Oddly our CoC games are typically non-violent.

There is the horrific threat of terrible violence but 95% of the game has none.
If you resort to violence is it usually very quick and you die.

I find super hero and toon style games to be the polar opposite.
There is constant violence but it doesn't carry any genuine threat. So in a supers game, ceretainly if you emulate the comics you are fighting most of the time, however no one ever gets hurt.
In CoC, like int eh books, you very very rarely fight and when you do people die.

Quote from: jibbajibba;652185There is constant violence but it doesn't carry any genuine threat. So in a supers game, ceretainly if you emulate the comics you are fighting most of the time, however no one ever gets hurt.

I've frequently thought about a game concept based around Unreal Tournament-esque deathmatch leagues. It had never occurred to me that perhaps Toon is the perfect system for UT, fast paced bloody but ultimately harmless fighting.

Quote from: jeff37923;652182You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?

Let me help you. This is not about the media that inspired the games, but about the games and how they play.

Quote from: jibbajibba;652185Oddly our CoC games are typically non-violent.

There is the horrific threat of terrible violence but 95% of the game has none.
If you resort to violence is it usually very quick and you die.

I find super hero and toon style games to be the polar opposite.

I agree with JibbaJibba.  I've been in one on-and-off Call of Cthulhu campaign where we haven't had a single combat in nearly a dozen sessions.  On the other hand, I've been in other CoC games that were in the shotguns-and-dynamite style, with most sessions having at least one combat - though typically against cultists rather than monsters.  The question is, what is "normal" for a game?  

I think going by the advice, adventure seeds, and examples is a fair cue.  From these, I think that CoC could be classified in relatively low violence in that it emphasizes investigation, but nearly every adventure requires violence to resolve successfully.  

I also agree about superhero games and Toon being high-violence, though also non-lethal cartoon violence.  


I classify TFOS, Faery's Tale, and Zorcerer of Zo differently - because many suggested adventures don't require any violence.  The adventure seeds often aren't about defeating an enemy, but rather getting a date, or helping someone, or finding something out.  TFOS has potential for slapstick violence as is common in Ranma 1/2, say, but I've played in some games of it with very little of that.  I think there is more support for this in the game as written than in CoC.  The introductory adventure for my edition of Teenagers from Outer Space, for example, is a race to catch a flying stone to win the hand of an alien princess.  There's no inherent violence in this scenario. PCs could attack each other, but it's not suggested or necessary.

Quote from: Piestrio;649699Just curious, anyone know of games without any sort of violence inherent in the premise?

Like games about helping people and giving out hugs and crap?

Do you mean without violence or without conflict?  A game without conflict is inherently a non-starter, I'd say.

'Cause a game of, I dunno, modern fantasy based around trying to keep a homeless shelter open could involve no violence and still be conflictual as all hell, despite being about helping people and maybe giving out the occasional hug (or bowl of soup).  

Even a game like Cat, where the main premise is cats have to keep the stupid humans safe from Boggins (negative emotions personified, really) because the humans just can't take care of themselves, has the potential for conflict and violence - if not between cats and Boggins, then between cats and dogs, or cats and other cats.  Because, y'know.  Cats.

Most games have to at least account for violence, though many don't emphasize it.

Quote from: Erstwhile;652636Do you mean without violence or without conflict?  A game without conflict is inherently a non-starter, I'd say.

'Cause a game of, I dunno, modern fantasy based around trying to keep a homeless shelter open could involve no violence and still be conflictual as all hell, despite being about helping people and maybe giving out the occasional hug (or bowl of soup).  

Even a game like Cat, where the main premise is cats have to keep the stupid humans safe from Boggins (negative emotions personified, really) because the humans just can't take care of themselves, has the potential for conflict and violence - if not between cats and Boggins, then between cats and dogs, or cats and other cats.  Because, y'know.  Cats.

Most games have to at least account for violence, though many don't emphasize it.

Tools of Ignorance has no provision for violence. The conflicts are both internal (Do I take performance enhancing drugs to save my career? Do I cheat on my wife?) and external (The baseball games) without violence being an option. have you ever seen a baseball brawl? It's a bunch of millionaires shoving each other around.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;652696Tools of Ignorance has no provision for violence. The conflicts are both internal (Do I take performance enhancing drugs to save my career? Do I cheat on my wife?) and external (The baseball games) without violence being an option. have you ever seen a baseball brawl? It's a bunch of millionaires shoving each other around.

-clash

Also it really boils down to who strikes first with that heavy baseball bat they're carrying .

Quote from: Rincewind1;652704Also it really boils down to who strikes first with that heavy baseball bat they're carrying .

And that pretty much covers it.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;652696Tools of Ignorance has no provision for violence. The conflicts are both internal (Do I take performance enhancing drugs to save my career? Do I cheat on my wife?) and external (The baseball games) without violence being an option. have you ever seen a baseball brawl? It's a bunch of millionaires shoving each other around.

-clash

Interesting.  D'you think it could it be adapted to be sickly sweet and involve helping people and giving hugs?  Piestrio seemed very big on the hugging.

Quote from: Erstwhile;652916Interesting.  D'you think it could it be adapted to be sickly sweet and involve helping people and giving hugs?  Piestrio seemed very big on the hugging.

It's currently fashionable in baseball circles to give Bro-hugs, so that's covered. All that would be needed would be a sub-plot involving a child cancer patient charity like the Jimmy Fund - baseball players visiting hospitals with little bald-headed waifs innocently trusting their heroes are not taking PEDs or screwing waitresses and loading on the guilt from their misery tourism, then generating bonuses and penalties based on that guilt. A simple add on.

-clash

"The Makers of Wishes", A Tools of Ignorance scenario.

Relieve the heart - warming moments as you are the man Little Jimmy wants to see, before he perishes from bone cancer. Ponder as you go to visit your mistress, about the legless kid whose photo you have signed. And what about the big game in a week, where the chemo wing of kid hospital comes to see? Will you take the drugs to be their hero, or will you fight on your own?

Quote from: Rincewind1;653067"The Makers of Wishes", A Tools of Ignorance scenario.

Relieve the heart - warming moments as you are the man Little Jimmy wants to see, before he perishes from bone cancer. Ponder as you go to visit your mistress, about the legless kid whose photo you have signed. And what about the big game in a week, where the chemo wing of kid hospital comes to see? Will you take the drugs to be their hero, or will you fight on your own?

Yes! There you go, Piestrio! That's got it all!

Now we have to write this!

-clash

No, seriously you don't.

Quote from: Ronin;653393No, seriously you don't.

Heeeheee!