TheRPGSite

Ever find yourself having to say that to players?

I do. Sometimes people fuss over nothing, argue over some point which has already been settled, sit there complaining about their character, and they're stopping the game moving forwards. Yes, it makes player Anna unhappy to be told to STFUARTD, but letting Anna obstruct things would make Bob, Charlie and Dave unhappy.

What do you lot reckon?

I'd sooner cut a player loose.

Wouldn't that be a bit harsh? I mean, a player obstructs one session once for half an hour, and you kick them out?

Or does everyone just put up with that half hour of pointless argument and boredom?

Or do you instead try to psuh them forward, and if they don't listen, tell them to STFUARTD?

Sure, a player's always like that, you'll want to boot them. But just once or twice - what do you in that session, while they're obstructing things and won't listen?

I ride it out and then I cut them loose. Really. IME the person willing to do it once is usually willing to do it a second and a third time ect... I have had entire campaigns ruined by tolerating stuff like this. I just don't do it anymore.  I mean it's not like we're 14, you know.

I use a different tactic for when a player is acting like a dickhead:

I roll the dice, and follow up with "roll initiative," or "roll a saving throw."

Hmm.  When I saw the title I thought it was a reaction to people who want gobs and scads of descriptions in combat.

"I cut at him with the Nine Whispers technique.  My blade sings off the guard of his shield, slicing across his left bicep.  He grimaces in pain as..."

"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

"I hit for 6 points of damage".

"Better.  Next?"

Quote from: Old Geezer"I cut at him with the Nine Whispers technique.  My blade sings off the guard of his shield, slicing across his left bicep.  He grimaces in pain as..."

"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

"I hit for 6 points of damage".

"Better.  Next?"

:woop:

Call me old and crumbling. I agree totally. I think if anyone at my gaming table started talking about their Nine Whispers technique they would be beaten senseless.

And, yes Kyle, I have said to players, "Shudap and roll the damn dice."

Quote from: JohnnyWannabe:woop:

Call me old and crumbling. I agree totally. I think if anyone at my gaming table started talking about their Nine Whispers technique they would be beaten senseless.

And, yes Kyle, I have said to players, "Shudap and roll the damn dice."

You sound like a cheetoist;) me approves.

Quote from: Old GeezerHmm.  When I saw the title I thought it was a reaction to people who want gobs and scads of descriptions in combat.

"I cut at him with the Nine Whispers technique.  My blade sings off the guard of his shield, slicing across his left bicep.  He grimaces in pain as..."

"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

"I hit for 6 points of damage".

"Better.  Next?"

Yup, I've had to deal with this kind of idiots before. Usually  less so in combat and more in descriptive checks of something else they're doing.

But yeah, I too had this come to mind as the first thing when I saw this thread title, and not what Kyle is precisely talking about; but hey, lets threadjack it anyways.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditBut yeah, I too had this come to mind as the first thing when I saw this thread title, and not what Kyle is precisely talking about; but hey, lets threadjack it anyways.

RPGPundit

As long as the folks at the table all think threadjacking it is fun, I'm sure Kyle would approve.  More Cheetos?

Quote from: RPGPunditBut yeah, I too had this come to mind as the first thing when I saw this thread title, and not what Kyle is precisely talking about...

But it is essentially what he's talking about.  Yeah, Kyle mentions metagame fussiness, but sometimes in-character fussiness can be just as much dead weight to the flow of play.  So, shut the fuck up already and roll the dice.

On the other hand, I don't mind the whole "Nine Whispers" sort of business so much when it occurs after the dice have been rolled and results applied.  Go right ahead and narrate all you want -- meanwhile, I'll be dealing with the next player in the queue.  As long as it doesn't interfere with resolving the next player's turn, the worst you're going to get from me as a GM is an impatient, "Mm-hm. Yes, that's nice.  Now, on with the next roll..."

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOn the other hand, I don't mind the whole "Nine Whispers" sort of business so much when it occurs after the dice have been rolled and results applied.  Go right ahead and narrate all you want -- meanwhile, I'll be dealing with the next player in the queue.  As long as it doesn't interfere with resolving the next player's turn, the worst you're going to get from me as a GM is an impatient, "Mm-hm. Yes, that's nice.  Now, on with the next roll..."

!i!

Exactly.

And we often stop for ten seconds or so to say "This would be so cool, with this and that and that".

And then it's back to resolving the combat.

EDIT:

For example, in a Star Wars lightsaber combat in a tunnel with airline style emergency lighting only and a broken pipe spewing vapor, I spent half a minute commenting on how cool it would look, the barely visible figures with the bright lightsaber blades swirling through the mist.

But then, back to the game.  The image has been built, let's use our imaginations and keep the game moving quickly.

It's not a threadjack. I'm talking about players obstructing the flow of the game, slowing things down and making them boring. That could be attempts at florid prose, it could be rules arguments or whinging about their character not being good enough, anything.

The one I dislike most myself is the rules babbling. I've made my ruling, now let's move on.

I just ask because I recently had to do that. It was a bit harsh to say to the player, "shut the fuck up", and he didn't like it much, however the other three players didn't like it that this one was slowing things down. So I displeased one rather than displeasing three. Plus I'd already asked this person three times politely, but they continued.

It's a bit like when you're trying to get past someone in a crowded space.
"Excuse me."
Guy turns, stares at you blankly.
"Could I get past, please?"
Guy stands there saying nothing, not moving."
"Mind if I get by you? Could you step aside please?"
Blank look.
"Get the fuck out of my way!"
Guy moves, is offended and can't understand why you're angry.

Sometimes a player's in the way of the game moving forward, and won't get out of the way of the rest of the group. I ask them politely three times, then I get annoyed.

Maybe it'd go down better if I had a little plastic Viking Hat to wear as I said it. When you've made yourself look stupid people are less likely to be offended by what you say.

I just use tact and charm. I don't think I've ever had to say "Shut the fuck up".

Some friends of mine knock on the table.

Hrrm...

I don't have an answer to the situation, just a couple of thoughts...

Sometimes, when a toddler is throwing a tantrum, the only way to handle the situation is to let them scream.  Once they get it out of their system, they settle down again.  Cut them off at the pass, and frustration and anger just builds up.  In many ways, adults are similar.  If a player has a problem with the game, you need to let them vent entirely, otherwise the issue will never be completely resolved.  By cutting them off, you avoid time wasting, but you also stop them from completely venting.  Coitus interruptus.

Of course, in some cases the player is just an arsehole and one argument is just an early symptom.

Quote from: droogSome friends of mine knock on the table.

I used to do this.

Don't need to anymore...  But I remember it being quite handy.

Quote from: Kyle AaronIt's not a threadjack. I'm talking about players obstructing the flow of the game, slowing things down and making them boring. That could be attempts at florid prose, it could be rules arguments or whinging about their character not being good enough, anything.

I constantly get on my players to get their assess in gear.  I get bored and I'm not one of those GM's that believes he's solely a vessel for bringing enjoyment to the players - I'm there to have fun too.  When it gets in the way of my fun, I start to get cranky.

"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice."  I couldn't say it better myself.

Then again, if we're playing FengShui or Exalted (or "stunting" game X), then you'd better be narrating your attacks.  But with D&D?  STFUARTD!

Quote from: Cold Blooded GamesYou sound like a cheetoist;) me approves.

Thanks. Great job on Dog Town, by the way. Now, if I could only get my playing group to sit down and give it a whirl.

Quote from: droogI just use tact and charm. I don't think I've ever had to say "Shut the fuck up".

I have some tact, but zero charm, alas. So I have to use my Viking Hat instead. Also, remember that for me with my rotating players and closed-ended short campaigns, in each game group of 4 players, usually at least 2 of them are new to me and each-other. In a more well-established group people will be more in tune with each-other, and you can be more subtle about things. When you don't know each-other you often have to be more direct.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkSometimes, when a toddler is throwing a tantrum, the only way to handle the situation is to let them scream.

Players throwing tantrums is in my experience pretty rare. More common is that they get some idea or rules issue and grab at it and worry at it like a dog with a bone. You can't let them scream because they're not screaming - they're just burbling on in a monotone about this trivial stupid thing, and they won't shut up. Usually it's not even that they want their way - even if you say, "okay, we'll do it your way, then", they keep going on because they don't just want their way, they want you to say their way is right, and even when you say they're right, they still want to talk about it a bit longer to savour their triumph, make sure everyone knows they were right.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkBy cutting them off, you avoid time wasting, but you also stop them from completely venting.

I've always tried to encourage venting between sessions in emails. So they get to spurt out what they need to, but it doesn't disrupt the game. Granted, if it doesn't come out exactly when they want it to, it'll brew a bit more and be more of an issue than if came out straight away. But that seems to me the best compromise: let them vent, but out of session time.

Quote from: architect.zeroI constantly get on my players to get their assess in gear. I get bored and I'm not one of those GM's that believes he's solely a vessel for bringing enjoyment to the players - I'm there to have fun too. When it gets in the way of my fun, I start to get cranky.

Well, I'm the same. But I do try to look at the group as a whole. It's okay for one or two of us - including me - to be bored by a particular scene or discussion if the majority are right into it.

For example, my current campaign, the first thing any of the characters did was to decorate the tea room. Which was stupid and pointless and not very interesting to me, but three of the players were laughing themselves silly over it, and getting right into it. I'm not going to stop people when they're having fun - especially since the other player, all they were doing was, "I set up a back door hack into my employer company's system." Yawn. What was I gonna do with that one? Have the character caught compromising the system on their first day on the job? Lame. Decorating the tea room seemed much more thrilling.

Of course I cut it short in the end, but three out of five of the people there were laughing and right into it, and using it to kind of feel their way with their new characters, express their personalities a bit. So even though it bored me it seemed good for the group as a whole.

But some drongo arguing about the rules or some trivial crap, no-one in the group's interested in that.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron"I set up a back door hack into my employer company's system." Yawn. What was I gonna do with that one? Have the character caught compromising the system on their first day on the job? Lame. Decorating the tea room seemed much more thrilling.

:haw: I'm at a loss for words.

Quote from: Kyle AaronFor example, my current campaign, the first thing any of the characters did was to decorate the tea room. Which was stupid and pointless and not very interesting to me, but three of the players were laughing themselves silly over it, and getting right into it.

That's brutal.  

Next time something like that happens, excuse yourself from the table.  ("I have to go to the bathroom...") By the time you come back they'll be ready to actually play the game. :)

Quote from: Kyle AaronFor example, my current campaign, the first thing any of the characters did was to decorate the tea room. Which was stupid and pointless and not very interesting to me, but three of the players were laughing themselves silly over it, and getting right into it. I'm not going to stop people when they're having fun - especially since the other player, all they were doing was, "I set up a back door hack into my employer company's system." Yawn. What was I gonna do with that one? Have the character caught compromising the system on their first day on the job? Lame. Decorating the tea room seemed much more thrilling.

Hrrmmm... sounds like the guy is "damaged goods", so to speak.  IMHO, I don't really have a problem with a guy wanting to set up a back door hack into his employer's computer system (particularly if he is playing a hacker).  But as you point out, it would have been lame if you followed that line of discussion, made him roll against a difficulty and have him fail.  Campaign over before it even starts.  As a GM, I would have told the player that if the issue ever arose, then we would role to see if he had the foresight to set up the backdoor... or any other precautionary measures for that matter.  I'm pretty sure that you would make a similar ruling.  

But... not all GMs are like that.  Many will rule that if you do not say it, then it never happened.  It's mindset of a particular type of GM... often running D&D, and very Gygaxian in nature.  If the guy has come from that sort of game, then by nature he will be competitive.  He will see the GM as an adversary.  No wonder if wants to argue the point over rules... he probably sees the game as a competition between the players and the GM.

So either (a) over time, he will learn to adjust his game to accomodate a different style of GM, or (b) he will never get it.  

QuoteOf course I cut it short in the end, but three out of five of the people there were laughing and right into it, and using it to kind of feel their way with their new characters, express their personalities a bit. So even though it bored me it seemed good for the group as a whole.

And this doesn't bode well for the game...  sounds like none of the players are on the same page as you.  The guy arguing over the rules is just acting out... but the guys piss-farting around playing at home decorating?  Sounds like it's just a different manifestation of a similar problem.  They aren't entirely engaged in the game.

But without specifics... it's hard to tell for sure.

Naw, the others were just buggerising about in the first session, a "settling in" period. They're sweet as now. Not so much the one focused on the rules. Dog at a bone, mate. But anyway I meant this as a general question, wanting to know if I was the only one to give the GM Smackdown. Apparently not - some are harsher, though, just booting the guy.

I'll usually only boot people who do things like show up without any dice, zap out every fifteen minutes for a smoke, drink a sixpack of Guiness and won't share, and whose roleplaying doesn't extend beyond boggle-eyed bellowing "I SHOOT HIM!"

Never STFUARTD but there have been numerous amounts of threatening done with the blue GM lightning.  Storm clouds of bluish haze could form anywhere in any setting, genre, or system!

Quote from: StuartThat's brutal.  

Next time something like that happens, excuse yourself from the table.  ("I have to go to the bathroom...") By the time you come back they'll be ready to actually play the game. :)

Hah! And here I thought I was the only one who used that trick... and I do use it, all the time. Whenever the players get caught up with some meaningless task or go deep into some inter-PC conversation that is just repeating stuff that has already been covered, I go to the bathroom. By the time I come back, they're usually ready to move on.

RPGPundit

I now have this terrible image of you, sitting on the toilet with your pants down at your ankles, head in your hands, shaking your head in dismay.

Yeah, I'm trying to scrub it out of my brain, too.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI now have this terrible image of you, sitting on the toilet with your pants down at your ankles, head in your hands, shaking your head in dismay.

Sounds like a typical day at work for me.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI now have this terrible image of you, sitting on the toilet with your pants down at your ankles, head in your hands, shaking your head in dismay.

Huh?
Would that be this terrible image of Bill "The Butcher", sitting on the toilet with his pants down at his ankles, head in his hands, shaking his head in dismay?

(Must have been in the director's cut...)