TSR is suing Wizards of the Coast, and want to crowdfund money for that suit. But should you back them? Do they have a case? What could they actually achieve? Watch the video to find out!
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

There's no way this lawsuit will be successful.  Maybe they are just looking for attention?

This ain't for me but thanks for the reminder of 80s action movies. Haven't watched the ninja trilogy in years. They are on the list to hunt down.

Quote from: The Spaniard on December 11, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
There's no way this lawsuit will be successful.  Maybe they are just looking for attention?

The lawsuit being successful was probably never the goal, the Indiegogo campaign to raise money "for the lawsuit" seems to be a goal, though. Withdrawing the lawsuit, re-entering it in another jurisdiction with some changes, withdrawing it again, re-entering it again, and repeat over and over and each time try and raise money.

I don't know, have no proof, that might not be the goal. But it is a believable one, and some politicians have done similar things.

WOTC sure is guilty of defamation of alot of people as part of their JSW/Woke agenda.

But getting that to stick in court could be tricky. The other problem is WOTC has alot of potential cash to throw this just to make it disappear.

I hope they go forward with this and win. But the odds are stacked against them.

Quote from: Omega on December 13, 2021, 12:37:50 AM
WOTC sure is guilty of defamation of alot of people as part of their JSW/Woke agenda.

But getting that to stick in court could be tricky. The other problem is WOTC has alot of potential cash to throw this just to make it disappear.

I hope they go forward with this and win. But the odds are stacked against them.

First off, just saying that a particular piece of fiction doesn't reflect your OWN values isn't somehow defamation. Making a comment on values of an era isn't somehow commenting on the people who lived in that era. It also doesn't make a comment about the person who wrote it, it's literally commenting on the fiction -- and the fiction isn't an entity that is able to sue.

But, more importantly, the lawsuit is self-contradictory -- it claims that certain trademarks and copyrights are abandoned, so therefore TSR3.5 should be permitted to take them over. But in that same lawsuit it also talks about a disclaimer that is displayed when you attempt to purchase products with those trademarks and copyrights, therefore admitting that they recognize that the products are still for sale. I don't get that part at all.

So, this is why I don't think they intended to actually win the lawsuit. It's a list of grievances that people who "Agree with them" will want to sign like some sort of petition but I don't think that it's intended to be something that will work in court. Just a way to scam money from people who don't think before they send their money to someone saying words that they wanted to hear.

I will not donate, but it is my hope that both TSR and WotC waste a tremendous amount of money and resolve nothing.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 13, 2021, 11:49:06 AM
I will not donate, but it is my hope that both TSR and WotC waste a tremendous amount of money and resolve nothing.

WOTC is owned by Hasbro, they have lawyers on retainer. The lawyers can whip up a reply to this without affecting WOTC/Habsro's budgets in the slightest.

TSR does not have lawyers on retainer, in fact, it could be a REALLY bad thing for them if Hasbro/WOTC ever spent real money on fighting this. The moment that the lawyers start billing for REAL time, suddenly the costs of them LOSING the lawsuit will affect TSR.

And then we'll hear a bunch of anti-woke folks start whining about how WOTC are trying to silence their bull crap. And that's just nonsense, if you understand how things actually worked you'd understand that it's not about sending a message or anything of that sort, it's the people that are manipulating you to profit off of your "outrage."

That's my opinion, and you can disregard my opinion like most folks on this forum do. I've been accused of being SJW plenty, but one of the easiest ways to manipulate people is to spread FUD, and this has all of the signs of that sort of manpulation.

I'd like to see the new TSR would put as much effort into making RPGs as doing this other stuff.

Well, looks like it was WotC who filled a lawsuit first. It's tenkar so take it with a grain of salt.

Quote from: hoshisabi on December 13, 2021, 02:18:42 AM
First off, just saying that a particular piece of fiction doesn't reflect your OWN values isn't somehow defamation. Making a comment on values of an era isn't somehow commenting on the people who lived in that era. It also doesn't make a comment about the person who wrote it, it's literally commenting on the fiction -- and the fiction isn't an entity that is able to sue.

Except that is not what WOTC did. They slapped a great big "Warning this may be wacist!" stamp on what appears to be every pre-wotc RPG product they own over at DTRPG.

QuoteWe (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on December 13, 2021, 06:44:02 PM
Well, looks like it was WotC who filled a lawsuit first. It's tenkar so take it with a grain of salt.

Thats hilarious considering WOTC itself is guilty of patent trolling/theft.

Quote from: Omega on December 13, 2021, 08:25:35 PM

QuoteWe (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

What a heap of unprincipled sniveling shitheads WotC have become. "We are fundamentally opposed to the views held in this product we are offering for sale." How do they say this with a straight face?

Quote from: Omega on December 13, 2021, 12:37:50 AM
WOTC sure is guilty of defamation of alot of people as part of their JSW/Woke agenda.

But getting that to stick in court could be tricky. The other problem is WOTC has alot of potential cash to throw this just to make it disappear.

LOL that's not how defamation works. Like...at all.