We've all seen them: RPGs where the real draw is the setting, and the system is at best an afterthought, at worst a burden. What RPGs are out there which really, really didn't need to be a standalone RPG, and would have been much better off as a systemless setting book (or as supplements for other games)?

For me, the classic example of this sort of thing is a|state. Heck, the setting segment of the book is 100% systemless as it is. (I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was originally cooked up as the author's CORPS campaign, so presumably the system was tacked on solely because Contested Ground didn't have the right to put it out as a CORPS supplement or something.)

Unhallowed Metropolis, oh god, Unhallowed Metropolis.  Though it's an ideal Unknown Armies port, since there's no magic.

Kingdoms of Kalamar during the 3E/3.5E era.

Pathfinder's Golarion.  (I'm not particularly impressed by the Pathfinder rpg).

Maybe Dragonlance could have still sold if it was systemless.

Blackmoor.

Really, Warthur, you could have posted this to my "Systemless settings" thread, thus adding to my glory in the eyes of the credulous and not-at-all-cynical-or-critical RPGsite community.

My secretary will forward a form letter describing the manner and timing of my wrath.  
Expect to suffer as no mortal has suffered, etc.
Posted in Mobile Mode

Blue Planet

Quote from: Hairfoot;319936Really, Warthur, you could have posted this to my "Systemless settings" thread, thus adding to my glory in the eyes of the credulous and not-at-all-cynical-or-critical RPGsite community.

My secretary will forward a form letter describing the manner and timing of my wrath.  
Expect to suffer as no mortal has suffered, etc.
Posted in Mobile Mode

I didn't want to confuse the issue by stuffing a thread about settings which actually are systemless with settings which maybe should be systemless...

Gamma World.

Talislanta -- it's 95% systemless as it is.

Hmmm, it strikes me that the original Empire of the Petal Throne kind of qualifies as one of these, since could equally well have just been published as an OD&D supplement with MAR Barker's house rules in an appendix.

A followup question: How many of these games do people think originally came about as the setting for people's home campaigns in a different system, and then had a system tacked onto them simply because the designers/publishers couldn't get the rights to produce the setting as a supplement for the system in question (or didn't want to/think to ask), and they felt that a systemless book wouldn't sell (which seems to have been disproven in recent years)?

Extra points if you can give a decent guess (with reasoning) as to which system the game in question was originally developed under.

I agree with the Blue Planet suggestion. Fantastic setting but the actual rules never enticed me.

I liked Rackham's Cadwallon setting but the rules are kind a mess... in part because of poor translation.
It's obvious that because they were a miniatures company they wanted something that used miniatures... so it's basically a skirmish wargame with RPG elements... but no one I know using that setting uses the rules that came with it... and most don't use miniatures either.

In the Wayback I would have much preferred Arduin be just a setting guide rather than have so many quasi D&D rules trying to make it a game apart.

Quote from: Simlasa;320061In the Wayback I would have much preferred Arduin be just a setting guide rather than have so many quasi D&D rules trying to make it a game apart.

That's interesting, because I'm of the exact opposite feeling. I enjoyed the Arduin books for all the nutty rules stuff; it's like dragging out a time capsule containing a distillation of all the crazy house rules I saw back in the day. The setting material was pretty uninteresting to me.

I second Cadwallon. I don't have a problem with Talislanta's rules. I never much cared for Shadowrun's rules. I've had fun playing Shadowrun GURPS. I think Agone would've been more successful in America without its rules, though I like them well enough. Weapons of the Gods would be better without rules. Wooden Suits and Iron Men is a good setting. Torg was a good setting. I thought the rules were part of the charm, but they were not as well-liked, I think, as the world would be without them.

Arduin needed its weird rules for the setting to work the way it was supposed to. The rules for the things were an integral part of the descriptions of those things, in my opinion.