Should Socially Adept Players Be Rewarded in RPGs?

LordVreeg · January 23, 2011, 12:12:26 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;434560Well certainly giving bonus "RP" xp to players who do a good job of presenting their characters in the social context, and not giving it to those who are not capable of that, is one simple way to do this.
Another is that if you have "social" rolls in your game a player who does a good job actually interpreting his character's social actions should get a significant bonus and those who fail at that a significant penalty.
If you don't actually use rolls, then obviously increasing the number of successes for socially adept players and increasing failures for socially inept players. I don't care if "you think your character should be good at giving a speech", or should know how to convince someone of something; if you suck ass at doing it, and the things you make your character say make him someone who would be unlikeable, that should have a real effect in-game.

RPGPundit

Yes.
I think this describes how Celtricia runs. Though the rolls and skills help, they only guide the RP along. Players who have the soal graces to use said rolls and skills still have a huge advantage, but the skills modify the roleplay and the affect of the roleplay; but the roleplay is still the thing.

And we also give an RP bonus at the end of the session, so players who do a better job playing their characters within the setting get more experience. this seems to work well.

RPGPundit · January 23, 2011, 03:55:33 PM

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;434564Guys hated playing wizards in my D&D games, because if they couldn't make a real fireball from bat guano and sulphur, I took away d6s from their damage rolls.

That taught them fuckers.

My point about wizards pretty much illustrates why this is the wrong analogy. The right analogy is the guy who never knows which spell to memorize or when to appropriately cast them.

RPGPundit

Tommy Brownell · January 23, 2011, 04:01:00 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;434666My point about wizards pretty much illustrates why this is the wrong analogy. The right analogy is the guy who never knows which spell to memorize or when to appropriately cast them.

RPGPundit

But what about the guy that knows WHAT to say, but not HOW to say it?

I may be able to give a rousing, Braveheart speech to my compatriots while my buddy just knows he should say something REALLY inspiring about not giving up...I think it's fine if that guy uses his Persuasion skill or whatever to compensate for his lack of oratory.

I DO agree that the third guy in that position, the one who comes up with "Remember, when this is over, we can fuck their puppies" probably doesn't deserve the game system backing him up.

jeff37923 · January 23, 2011, 04:10:23 PM

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;434667But what about the guy that knows WHAT to say, but not HOW to say it?

I may be able to give a rousing, Braveheart speech to my compatriots while my buddy just knows he should say something REALLY inspiring about not giving up...I think it's fine if that guy uses his Persuasion skill or whatever to compensate for his lack of oratory.

I DO agree that the third guy in that position, the one who comes up with "Remember, when this is over, we can fuck their puppies" probably doesn't deserve the game system backing him up.

Social ineptness does not mean that the Player does not know how to role-play. Social ineptness means that the Player does not know how to get along with other Players.

Tetsubo · January 23, 2011, 04:29:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;434666My point about wizards pretty much illustrates why this is the wrong analogy. The right analogy is the guy who never knows which spell to memorize or when to appropriately cast them.

RPGPundit

You can teach someone had to manage their characters resources in a more efficient manner. I don't know of anyway to teach someone to be more socially adept. And that is what we are discussing. The *players* inability to make their *character* be socially adept. Some folks just aren't able to do that. It doesn't make them bad people. Nor should it mean that they are excluded from our hobby.

Tommy Brownell · January 23, 2011, 05:31:41 PM

Quote from: jeff37923;434668Social ineptness does not mean that the Player does not know how to role-play. Social ineptness means that the Player does not know how to get along with other Players.

Read the OP...he's lumping people who can't make flowery speeches or have strong debate skills in with catpissmen who cannot get along with other people in general.

I'm arguing that allowing the system to prop up the former is fine...I have no problems letting the latter twist in the wind.

jeff37923 · January 23, 2011, 05:49:17 PM

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;434680Read the OP...he's lumping people who can't make flowery speeches or have strong debate skills in with catpissmen who cannot get along with other people in general.

I'm arguing that allowing the system to prop up the former is fine...I have no problems letting the latter twist in the wind.

Whoa, shit. I didn't catch that at all in the OP.

I agree with you that social adeptness or ineptness does not equate with good or bad role-playing. I know some excellent role-players that I would never allow in my home because they are shitbags, likewise I also know some incredibly crappy role-players who I feel lucky to have in my life.

RPGPundit · January 23, 2011, 11:44:26 PM

Quote from: Tetsubo;434673You can teach someone had to manage their characters resources in a more efficient manner. I don't know of anyway to teach someone to be more socially adept.

Charm school, speech therapy, debate class and other such things are pretty well based on the concept that you can in fact teach someone to be socially adept. Given that none of us were born particularly charming, it seems pretty likely that social skill is a combination of talent AND training.

RPGPundit

LordVreeg · January 24, 2011, 09:16:43 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;434777Charm school, speech therapy, debate class and other such things are pretty well based on the concept that you can in fact teach someone to be socially adept. Given that none of us were born particularly charming, it seems pretty likely that social skill is a combination of talent AND training.

RPGPundit

I've had this argument many times. I am firmly of the opinion that while genetics and natural talent come into play, over half of what we would place in the lexicon of 'Social Skills' is learned.

RPGPundit · January 24, 2011, 11:38:58 AM

Quote from: LordVreeg;434831I've had this argument many times. I am firmly of the opinion that while genetics and natural talent come into play, over half of what we would place in the lexicon of 'Social Skills' is learned.

I know for a fact that I'm much more socially adept, even adjusted for mere age, than I was as a kid or a teen. Proportionally speaking, I improved well beyond my "talent" because I came to understand the significance of it.

RPGPundit

Ian Warner · January 24, 2011, 05:27:10 PM

I tell you what's lots of fun.

An austic GM running a game with a group entirely consisting of autistic people.

That was my first session of WoD Innocents and I had a right blast.

Yeah none of us were any good at social graces but to tell the truth neither were any of our characters on paper.

Plus they were all kids. Kids in my experiance are sociopathic little shits autistic or not.

LordVreeg · January 24, 2011, 06:13:11 PM

Quote from: Ian Warner;434931I tell you what's lots of fun.

An austic GM running a game with a group entirely consisting of autistic people.

That was my first session of WoD Innocents and I had a right blast.

Yeah none of us were any good at social graces but to tell the truth neither were any of our characters on paper.

Plus they were all kids. Kids in my experiance are sociopathic little shits autistic or not.

Children are born evil. Sweet and evil. Society tries to solve this little problem.
And yes, I am a parent.

RPGPundit · January 25, 2011, 10:35:55 AM

But are you a Tiger Mother?

RPGPundit

Omnifray · January 25, 2011, 11:15:30 AM

Quote from: Ian Warner;434931I tell you what's lots of fun.

An austic GM running a game with a group entirely consisting of autistic people.

That was my first session of WoD Innocents and I had a right blast.

Yeah none of us were any good at social graces but to tell the truth neither were any of our characters on paper.

Plus they were all kids. Kids in my experiance are sociopathic little shits autistic or not.

I know at least two [very high functioning] autistic people who are perfectly decent roleplayers and more immersed and more convincing than many non-autistic people. One of them explained to me that officially autistic children are not supposed to be given fantasy books because they might have trouble telling fact from fiction (I once saw a girl with Asperger's Syndrome - who I'm not counting as one of the autistics I know - actually bite someone in a vampire-based quasi-LARP because she took the instruction to bite the girl and drink her blood a bit too literally - apparently she drew blood...). I wonder whether that tendency is connected with deep immersion on their part as adults playing RPGs. As a tendency they really throw themselves into the part. Regarding wider social graces, one of them is very charming in non-roleplay contexts and the other one certainly isn't generally charmless even if he does exhibit some interesting behaviours...

Omnifray · January 25, 2011, 11:20:08 AM

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;434564Guys hated playing wizards in my D&D games, because if they couldn't make a real fireball from bat guano and sulphur, I took away d6s from their damage rolls.

That taught them fuckers.

Your guys couldn't make a simple fireball from bat guano and sulphur??

Dipshits.

;-)