Quote from: Benoist;436295I'd encourage the player to handle it by actually role playing and not only roll, that's for sure. Why? Because it's a role playing game.

It's a roleplaying game when someone swings a sword, picks a lock, and casts a spell, too.

Yet the player swinging the sword doesn't have to get up and perform - he or she just rolls the dice. The player picking the lock doesn't have to get up and perform - he or she just rolls the dice. The player casting the spell doesn't have to get up and perform - he or she just rolls the dice.

Why? Why do people have to speak in character if they want their character to speak?

We could say it was because actions don't have the same impact on roleplaying and character that speech does. However, that's just not the case. For example, we often require that a player's selected actions to be consistent with the character. And actions can strongly demonstrate character - i.e., if a martial character chooses not to attack a target because it's weak or poorly armed.

We could say that speech has to be performed because it's easy to do so and the others are not. Although I'm not sure that pantomiming it terribly difficult. Moreover and more to the point, for the socially inept, it isn't easy.

The best I can come up with that some don't mind being inconsistent.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;436590Why? Why do people have to speak in character if they want their character to speak?

Because it's a role-playing game.

Quote from: Benoist;436593

Quote from: SeanchaiWhy? Why do people have to speak in character if they want their character to speak?

Because it's a role-playing game.

First, that's not a reason, that's just a label.  

Though I would be curious...  What would it be called if I play D&D where we make decisions for our characters, roll dice, and do everything else except speak as our characters?  i.e. We say "I ask the barkeep what is new in town." as opposed to "Ho! Barkeep!  What news is there in the town?"

Quote from: Seanchai;436588Isn't this a bit of a hypocritical argument from you? Haven't you always been a champion of the beer and pretzels approach to gaming, claiming those who try to raise it above those aims and its roots are Swine? You're not becoming a Swine, are you?

Seanchai

I think you might be confusing me with a cheetoist.  

As for me; I don't think that RPGs are "high art" or deep intellectual pursuit. What I do think is that in RPGs you should engage in actual roleplaying.

And elaborating on what or how your character is socially communicating is not the same as actually doing it; in essence, you ARE still trying to play someone more charismatic than you are; because its one thing to think up something clever to say, or get a sense of the right way to say it, and entirely another if you were trying to do the exact same thing in the types of high-pressure situations that happen in-game.  Its one thing to give a little speech in front of your GM in your character's voice, it woudl be another thing entirely to pull off the same speech in front of a broken army surrounded by 1200 French Knights coming to kill you all.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Seanchai;436590Why do people have to speak in character if they want their character to speak?

Quote from: Benoist;436593Because it's a role-playing game.

Quote from: jhkim;436603First, that's not a reason, that's just a label.  

Bullshit.

Go look up the definition of role-playing game.

Quote from: jhkim;436603First, that's not a reason, that's just a label.

Just a label, really? Interesting.

Quote from: jhkim;436603Though I would be curious...  What would it be called if I play D&D where we make decisions for our characters, roll dice, and do everything else except speak as our characters?  i.e. We say "I ask the barkeep what is new in town." as opposed to "Ho! Barkeep!  What news is there in the town?"

"Something else?"

It'd be an RPG.

At least according to the old-guard.  But Gygax used to separate the game/puzzle/exploration bits from "role-playing", viewing them as complementary pieces and competing bits in terms of "balanced" gaming.  As such he also thought too much emphasis on role-playing took away from the more player-challenge (game) elements.

Also, I don't know when the idea that speaking as your character is necessary for role-playing came about.  I've only encountered that meme in specific immersion-focused circles in the 90s, but never with the old-guard of D&D.

Quote from: RPGPundit;436427While its true that this does not necessarily follow, it is also true that getting rid of the Lawncrappers wouldn't make RPGs any LESS mainstream.  And that it is likely that for at least a certain number of people, one of the reasons they've never gotten into RPGs is the often-reported qualities of the worst types of people who play it and are sufficiently tolerated by the hobby to end up becoming our de facto "poster children", much to our detriment.

RPGPundit

I dunno if this is terribly accurate, but at least it is somewhat reasonable.  If that is the reason, it stands that teaching some players more social grace would be beneficial.  If it ends up just being a matter of personal taste, I am not one to either direct or judge anyone in their choice of who to invite to their table.

I really feel that this whole discussion has gone in some sort of excluded middle la-la-land where either you shouldn't do any role-playing at all or you must role-play all the fucking time for everything. This is ridiculous, honestly.

Quote from: Benoist;436632I really feel that this whole discussion has gone in some sort of excluded middle la-la-land where either you shouldn't do any role-playing at all or you must role-play all the fucking time for everything. This is ridiculous, honestly.

/me points and laughs!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;436636/me points and laughs!

-clash

/me points and laughs back!

Quote from: jeff37923;436617Bullshit.

Go look up the definition of role-playing game.

I don't give a damn what some dictionary says.  A dictionary definition has nothing to do with why I play - it's just a label.  

I play games because they are fun.  Sometimes it's fun to talk in my character's voice - but it can also be fun to play out other stuff without talking in my character's voice.  I've even played a mute character and had fun doing it.  

None of this had anything to do with the label.  I play RPGs because they're fun.  Let's try two reasons to speak in my character's voice:

1) You should speak in your character's voice because for all players, it's always more fun to speak in their character's voice.

2) You should speak in your character's voice because it's not a role-playing game unless everyone speaks in their character's voice.  

If it were true, #1 would be a legitimate reason to do something.  #2 is just stupid.

That's not the point dude.

Honestly. I like to go have a shit from time to time. Hey! It's fun! Looky here! I'm having a shit!
Doesn't make having a shit a role playing game, though.

If you have fun not playing a role playing game, good for you! Awesome!

More to the point, you know that "role-playing" part in role-playing game? Well, that's supposed to be part of the fun when you play the game, too. If you don't enjoy role-playing, you're welcome to play whatever the hell it is that you enjoy, story-gaming, miniatures wargames and otherwise, but it ain't role-playing.

Quote from: Benoist;436632I really feel that this whole discussion has gone in some sort of excluded middle la-la-land

Dude. TheRPGsite is Excluded Middle La-la-land.