Quote from: CRKrueger;436340If some catpissman wants his character to seduce a courtesan-assassin and has the character skill to do so, let him roll.  If, however, he opens his cheeto-stained mouth to issue the creepiest and most-pathetic come-on ever known, he's going to get pithed with a stiletto.  As Peregrin said, skills should never override the stupidity of the player.

I never really have any problems in this area however, I don't play with catpissmen (and have only encountered one bonafide catpissman in 30 years of roleplaying).

This is pretty much where I'm at.

If the best the player can offer is "I wanna really try to win her over, compliment her, blahblahblah", especially if I know it is a comfort issue and not a laziness issue (and I don't tend to play with complete strangers, so I have an idea usually) I'm okay with letting him roll Persuasion or Charisma or whatever is relevant for the game.

However, if they don't have the sense not to say "Hey, ever take it in the poop chute without lube?", then yeah, smack that crap down. Unless we're intentionally playing the goofiest, most off-color game we can.

Quote from: CRKrueger;436340I never really have any problems in this area however, I don't play with catpissmen.

In practice, now, that's what it really comes down to.

Quote from: StormBringer;436196In other words, if not for the Harijans, RPGs would be mainstream!

While its true that this does not necessarily follow, it is also true that getting rid of the Lawncrappers wouldn't make RPGs any LESS mainstream.  And that it is likely that for at least a certain number of people, one of the reasons they've never gotten into RPGs is the often-reported qualities of the worst types of people who play it and are sufficiently tolerated by the hobby to end up becoming our de facto "poster children", much to our detriment.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;436342This is pretty much where I'm at.

If the best the player can offer is "I wanna really try to win her over, compliment her, blahblahblah", especially if I know it is a comfort issue and not a laziness issue (and I don't tend to play with complete strangers, so I have an idea usually) I'm okay with letting him roll Persuasion or Charisma or whatever is relevant for the game.

However, if they don't have the sense not to say "Hey, ever take it in the poop chute without lube?", then yeah, smack that crap down. Unless we're intentionally playing the goofiest, most off-color game we can.

So let me see if I got your position straight here.  What you'd be saying is that if someone:

a) says nothing, just rolls = no bonus

b) says something really stupid = penalty, or failure?

c) says something that's very clever = no bonus?

Isn't that a situation then where you're really actively discouraging trying to bring anything into the game other than straight die-rolling? Aren't you basically making an argument for Forge-Swine style "gamism" then, and reducing the RPG to an utterly mechanical "wargame" even in non-combat elements, just as surely as if nothing you did or said apart from rolling a d20 (or whichever) had any effect whatsoever in the likelihood of your character's success?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;436429So let me see if I got your position straight here.  What you'd be saying is that if someone:

a) says nothing, just rolls = no bonus

b) says something really stupid = penalty, or failure?

c) says something that's very clever = no bonus?

Isn't that a situation then where you're really actively discouraging trying to bring anything into the game other than straight die-rolling? Aren't you basically making an argument for Forge-Swine style "gamism" then, and reducing the RPG to an utterly mechanical "wargame" even in non-combat elements, just as surely as if nothing you did or said apart from rolling a d20 (or whichever) had any effect whatsoever in the likelihood of your character's success?

RPGPundit

I cannot possibly argue for Forge-Swine "gamism" since I don't obsess pathetically over the Forge and what they may or may not be doing to our dice when we're not looking. Seriously, if I did not visit this site and read threads by you and a handful of posters I would have no idea about the Forge.

Like I said earlier in the thread, my concern is with figuring out who is there to genuinely contribute and make an honest effort into having a good time, and who is there because no one else will let them hang out.

I do assign bonuses and penalties where appropriate...but sometimes I, and everyone else around the table, are absolutely fine with abstracting some (or even most, depending on the group, campaign and/or game system) social interactions down into a couple of die rolls short sentences instead of turning every opportunity for interaction into community theatre for an audience of us. Because, while it is ROLE-PLAYING...it is also still a GAME...and if people at my table want to play a character who is smarter than they really are, or braver than they really are, or stronger than they really are, or more charismatic than they really are - if I think they are generally there to hang out, have a good time, and not be asshats, then I have no problem letting them use the system to accomplish that.

On the other hand, if I have a guy at the table who is a great tactical thinker, and he's made a character who should be utterly clueless, but he's really just used it as a dump stat, I'm not going to let him bypass that under the excuse of "I'm role-playing", unless he was pretty clear that his character concept was Idiot Savant Tactician or something.

Now, I have no idea if this is "Forge-Swine Gamism", since the only people I ever hear talk about The Forge is you and a handful of posters here. Something like ten years ago, I stumbled up "GNS Theory", read it, called it bullshit and went on - it has been a complete non-factor in my hobby life ever since...my first and only rule as GM is making sure that everyone at the table (including me) has fun, unless their fun comes from crapping on everyone else's.

Quote from: RPGPundit;436427While its true that this does not necessarily follow, it is also true that getting rid of the Lawncrappers wouldn't make RPGs any LESS mainstream.  And that it is likely that for at least a certain number of people, one of the reasons they've never gotten into RPGs is the often-reported qualities of the worst types of people who play it and are sufficiently tolerated by the hobby to end up becoming our de facto "poster children", much to our detriment.

RPGPundit

I really have to agree with this.

Many times in the pub, I've mentioned that I am a gamer and all of the worst stereotypes are brought up and I am told, in essence, "You are a gamer? You don't act or smell like a catpissman or a lawncrapper." Which shows me that the stereotype has become the de facto poster child for our hobby.

I think they should be rewarded in cash money. Rewarding them in RPGs will probably frighten them off.

-cl;ash

Quote from: flyingmice;436472I think they should be rewarded in cash money. Rewarding them in RPGs will probably frighten them off.

-cl;ash

I'm all for the cash, honestly. When are you running your game, again?

Quote from: Benoist;436476I'm all for the cash, honestly. When are you running your game, again?

That wasn't me, that was my sock-puppet cl;ash. Note the sig! I claim plausible deniability. He's paying the cash, ask him!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;436478That wasn't me, that was my sock-puppet cl;ash. Note the sig! I claim plausible deniability. He's paying the cash, ask him!

-clash

Damn! That bastard is sneaky!

Quote from: jeff37923;436445I really have to agree with this.

Many times in the pub, I've mentioned that I am a gamer and all of the worst stereotypes are brought up and I am told, in essence, "You are a gamer? You don't act or smell like a catpissman or a lawncrapper." Which shows me that the stereotype has become the de facto poster child for our hobby.

Over the years I've met individuals who regularly read rpg setting based fiction books (ie. Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc ...), but who have absolutely zero interest in playing any rpg games.  Quite a few of these individuals thought gamers resembled the catpissman or lawncrapper stereotypes, and they absolute refused to be associated with such people.

Quote from: flyingmice;436478That wasn't me, that was my sock-puppet cl;ash. Note the sig! I claim plausible deniability. He's paying the cash, ask him!

-clash

Most authours employ the utterly trite and wildly overused device of randomly placing apostrophes all over the name.  J'onn J'onzz, most of Anne McCaffrey, piles of Star Wars names...

Cl;ash is taking the bold new direction of using a semi-colon!  This will sweep the literary world within months.  

Quote from: StormBringer;436491Most authours employ the utterly trite and wildly overused device of randomly placing apostrophes all over the name.  J'onn J'onzz, most of Anne McCaffrey, piles of Star Wars names...

Cl;ash is taking the bold new direction of using a semi-colon!  This will sweep the literary world within months.  

cl;ash is too brilliant for his own good. I may have to put him down. The last thing a sockpuppet needs is to attract attention.

-cl;ash

Quote from: StormBringer;436491Most authours employ the utterly trite and wildly overused device of randomly placing apostrophes all over the name.  J'onn J'onzz, most of Anne McCaffrey, piles of Star Wars names...

Cl;ash is taking the bold new direction of using a semi-colon!  This will sweep the literary world within months.  

Just like the gratuitous use of umlauts in heavy metal names.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_umlaut

Quote from: RPGPundit;436429Isn't that a situation then where you're really actively discouraging trying to bring anything into the game other than straight die-rolling? Aren't you basically making an argument for Forge-Swine style "gamism" then, and reducing the RPG to an utterly mechanical "wargame" even in non-combat elements, just as surely as if nothing you did or said apart from rolling a d20 (or whichever) had any effect whatsoever in the likelihood of your character's success?

Isn't this a bit of a hypocritical argument from you? Haven't you always been a champion of the beer and pretzels approach to gaming, claiming those who try to raise it above those aims and its roots are Swine? You're not becoming a Swine, are you?

Seanchai