In light of the growing popularity of D&D, some argue that the game's charm and sense of mystique have been diluted. Could the game benefit from embracing a secret society ethos and thoughtful gatekeeping?
Would creating an air of exclusivity enhance the sense of belonging, deepen roleplay immersion, and preserve the integrity of D&D?
How could gatekeeping be reframed as a positive tool for maintaining quality, shared vision, and dedication at the table?
Are practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct effective ways to blend the real-world group dynamic with the in-game narrative?
Let's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMAre practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct ...
It's a game not a fraternity. Role Playing was a secret society, why would anyone want to return to that? Life is easier when society at large doesn't instantly think negatively about your hobby.
I think if they just focus on gameabilty and bringing the kind of broad appeal system they did with 5E when it first came out, they'd be fine.
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMIn light of the growing popularity of D&D, some argue that the game's charm and sense of mystique have been diluted. Could the game benefit from embracing a secret society ethos and thoughtful gatekeeping?
Would creating an air of exclusivity enhance the sense of belonging, deepen roleplay immersion, and preserve the integrity of D&D?
How could gatekeeping be reframed as a positive tool for maintaining quality, shared vision, and dedication at the table?
Are practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct effective ways to blend the real-world group dynamic with the in-game narrative?
Let's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
No. It risks alienating potential players. However, turning a game group into a secret society could be pretty fun!
No. Lack of transparency too often leads to bad behavior.
Quote from: Mishihari on December 11, 2024, 11:01:23 PMNo. Lack of transparency too often leads to bad behavior.
Greetings!
Yeah, my friend! A "Secret Society"? That sounds like an absolute trainwreck just waiting to happen. Like, laughing hysterically in glee, and clapping its hands together, waiting for someone foolish enough to attempt such a thing.
D&D is a game. As far as all the freaks and undesirables that have flooded into the hobby, well, that is gamer's fault, for being too nice, and weak. Not being strong enough and harsh to gatekeep their tables and say "NO" to freaks and degenerates. Thus, we have our hobby being hijacked by degenerates of every stripe and flavour, and increasingly attacking, mocking, and degrading *Normal Gamers*. I just think, well, all these mild-mannered and otherwise weak pussies need to reach down and grab ahold of their nuts and man up, you know? Stand against the degenerates fiercely, and don't tolerate the morons. There is lots to make up for, because so many normal gamers were asleep at the switch--but clearly, the time to stand up and resist is now, constantly. Otherwise, well, we know what the degenerates would like to do. Besides ruin you and crush your life in every way--they at least want to harass and drive you from the hobby, in defeat and despair. They want to absolutely rule the hobby, and dictate who is allowed into the hobby and who is not allowed.
Being harsh and vigilant is just something we need to do constantly.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
If D&D became a secret society I would probably never play it again. I don't have time for that crap.
More importantly, the cat is out of the bag on gatekeeping D&D, and has been since the 80s. Ironically, the OSR proves that. Roleplaying isn't a difficult concept and its a cheap one to produce, so once people know what it is, there's no stopping someone from doing whatever they want with it.
I am impressed at the rapid replies, thanks for the insight. I'll ponder your comments and decide upon a reply to all.
Going to play devil's advocate here: Yes, but in a sense like in the 80s. You found a group, you stayed with that group. You vetted people who wanted to join the group to make sure they were a good fit. You didn't have this open table crap that allows any random schmuck to show up and play and bring whatever baggage they have with them.
Having a secret society in your game setting, could be fun. And then another smaller secret society, hidden within the larger one. Mysteries and hidden agendas, abound.
Any group that plays together has the right to decide who they want to join them for a game. As for D&D as a whole, it has always been just an enjoyable pastime that anyone can get into if there is an interest. Lousy disruptive players can be weeded out at the individual group level. If such people are interested in playing then they can certainly form a group of their own.
Better to have a secret society within the larger D&D culture than try to make the entire culture a secret society. That's sort of what the OSR was like in the early days, before it left the forums.
I feel the opposite. The TSR IPs should enter public domain so they can be stewarded by any fans who actually care. Corporatism and copyright has destroyed rpg IPs and imo has resulted in rpgs in general being largely siphoned of creativity and joy.
It doesn't need to be Secret. It needs to be WIDE OPEN - where we show AND tell how it's done.
People that don't want it, won't jump in.
Likewise we need to have people that want to pitch what we're selling. Not everyone in old-school space is good at that. We *already* have that society. It's a matter of marketing our ideas better to those wanting to engage with the hobby - not doing whatever it is WotC is doing.
I want gaming to be for people that *want* to game, not those wanting to socialize and use the hobby as a means for jacking off about their politics and psychological issues and believe that "gaming" is their therapy instead.
To be honest, the ball is in our court. The Royal We(tm) talk about how our gaming is better than the flood of dogshit produced by WotC - we need people to go out and start making converts and show it. This doesn't need to be secret. Quite the opposite. It needs to be in conventions. It needs to be us creating new content for publication. It needs to be players speaking up at their tables about wanting to try things outside of 5e. It takes GM's to RUN these systems and games for their group and recruit more people to their tables that are willing to try those games outside of 5e.
No, not a secret society. We need to be the fucking Mongol Hordes of good gaming.
I think its more useful to have a very open hobby, where the people who love the hobby can and will be very opinionated about defending the gamer culture.
By "Secret Society" you mean some kind of closed group, and that would require some kind of institutional format, and doing that would lead to the potential for said institution to be captured by bad actors.
A resounding no.
This is essentially what the wokies have tried to do by attacking anyone and everyone who opposes their worldview. They are more or less saying that "this game is for US and people like US!"
They have explicitly stated that they don't want you playing it and would prefer if you left the hobby.
You can always impose controls on your personal group. Which tends to happen anyways with long standing groups. There's a sort of gatekeeping that goes on to prevent weirdos from messing up the group dynamic.
As there should be.
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMLet's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
Lets discuss how ruthlessly stupid even thinking this would be a good idea is.
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMIn light of the growing popularity of D&D, some argue that the game's charm and sense of mystique have been diluted. Could the game benefit from embracing a secret society ethos and thoughtful gatekeeping?
Would creating an air of exclusivity enhance the sense of belonging, deepen roleplay immersion, and preserve the integrity of D&D?
How could gatekeeping be reframed as a positive tool for maintaining quality, shared vision, and dedication at the table?
Are practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct effective ways to blend the real-world group dynamic with the in-game narrative?
Let's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
i don't think that it could be reframed in any positive way. a point is to be made for initiation rites and in general for social rites in general, those can enhance the social aspect, but they also occur naturally, you don't need a gaming group for those, just any group. as for gatekeeping, it is an active pushback action, it isn't meant to construct or enhance anything, just to react passively (and only negatively).
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMIn light of the growing popularity of D&D, some argue that the game's charm and sense of mystique have been diluted. Could the game benefit from embracing a secret society ethos and thoughtful gatekeeping?
Would creating an air of exclusivity enhance the sense of belonging, deepen roleplay immersion, and preserve the integrity of D&D?
How could gatekeeping be reframed as a positive tool for maintaining quality, shared vision, and dedication at the table?
Are practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct effective ways to blend the real-world group dynamic with the in-game narrative?
Let's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
As much as it may occupy our minds, it is just a game. Football nerds have their thing; trainspotters have their thing. This is our thing. That's all. Don't make it more than that.
And yes, this will mean that some people will enjoy it with whom you disagree on a great many things, including how the game is best enjoyed. That's ok. They can have their groups, you can have yours.
Absolutely not. The last thing D&D needs is the heat a secret society approach would bring. It has enough of a bad reputation as it is.
The correct approach is to make it as public as possible. Completely rip the mystery away from it. And show it for what it is.
I am not being certain I understand why this would be beneficial. In Spaint, it was being hard enough to find groups of which to play without them being hidden in secrecy. One of my great joys upon moving to the United States was in being how easy it became to find friends of which to play games.
I think the real reason this WON'T work is that the rewards are so slim. Most gamers are not skilled or sensitive enough to create a substance-of-belief or spirit-of-game that is compelling enough to support a quasi-religion. People attracted to the concept would find that their initial emotional investment isn't being paid off, they would leave or become drained, and the whole thing would ossify into a hollow farce.
Nice idea, though.
Absolutely not.
Leave it to pathfinder.
I think the essence of D&D lies in the dungeoncrawl, not in game politics that could break the group's unity (it's very hazardous in a class-centered system)
Quote from: AutisticallyAccurate on December 11, 2024, 05:14:20 PMIn light of the growing popularity of D&D, some argue that the game's charm and sense of mystique have been diluted. Could the game benefit from embracing a secret society ethos and thoughtful gatekeeping?
Would creating an air of exclusivity enhance the sense of belonging, deepen roleplay immersion, and preserve the integrity of D&D?
How could gatekeeping be reframed as a positive tool for maintaining quality, shared vision, and dedication at the table?
Are practices like initiation rites, lore-driven invitations, and clear codes of conduct effective ways to blend the real-world group dynamic with the in-game narrative?
Let's discuss: Could transforming D&D into a "secret society" elevate the game, or does it risk alienating potential players?
I don't know how anyone would go about doing any of this even if they wanted to. It's possible to gatekeep particular spaces like a Facebook group, a forum or your own table. How do you go about gatekeeping D&D? There is no gate that people have to pass through to enter the hobby. They can get the books, get some people together and play. They don't need anyone's approval. Who would conduct these initiation rites? What would they do if people just ignored them? Who would enforce this code of conduct? How? This hobby is too decentralized and has too low of a barrier of entry for gatekeeping or imposing codes of conduct to be even remotely possible.
Even trying to do this would require somehow consolidating the hobby under some sort of governing body with the power to enforce its decisions. Do you really want that? I don't. It's bad enough that people act like they own the hobby without validating them.
I clicked on this thinking it was gonna be about in-game stuff, but oh well. D&D should never be a 'secret society' as a whole. That kind of thinking is what led to the Satanic Panic in the first place, parents didn't know what the hell their kids were doing and wanted something they could point at and blame when they didn't behave like 'normal' children. There is no difference between a secret society and a cult from an outsider's perspective. Like any fricking hobby you want to enjoy in this day and age, stand in solidary with your fellow gamers in the open. Idiot 'tourists' don't like staying in spaces where they can't be top dog and be the loudest voice in the room.
Having the whole scene/hobby be a "secret society" would be dumb, but I'm seconding the guy who said that having your group be one could be fun. It'd be really dorky and fun.
Maybe not like a secret society but you just don't play with your close friends the same way you play with new aquaintances; you may prefer the former (I know I do) but the latter has its benefits and is important for the develloppment of the scene.
What is great with RPG is that you can play exactly the way you want it with the right people.
There are ways to bring the mystique back that are more practical than gatekeeping.
Make roleplaying really easy.
My players don't even own any of the books of the games I run (I've run Swords & Wizardry, ACKS, and Knave).
They are free to, but I don't require it, so they don't.
I write up a character generation document and give that to them, and some of the most important and commonly used rules about combat, price lists, healing, etc.
And the rest of the world – especially including spells and monsters – is a mystery to them until they encounter them in the game.
Most of my player are inexperienced and unfamiliar with a lot of D&D tropes, but some are more immersed, so I try to mainly use home-brewed or really rare monsters I found in blogs or other obscure places, with some classics thrown in because just because I know about beholders doesn't mean I've ever actually fought one.
The fear, excitement, and wonder as they discover new things is so cool.
Don't gatekeeper the hobby. Make your game something to explore.
Your secret society would have about 12 to 15 million members in North America alone.
How exactly do you propose to implement your plan?
As unfriendly and unwelcoming as gatekeeping is, it's clear that there's a real complex pattern of new naive members who are preyed on by also newly welcomed exploiters, slowly undermining and desaturating the richness and uniqueness of any niche hobby. The culture, the jargon, even the very hobby itself can turn into something else entirely.
Quote from: SeveredFane on December 16, 2024, 10:25:34 PMI am not being certain I understand why this would be beneficial. In Spaint, it was being hard enough to find groups of which to play without them being hidden in secrecy. One of my great joys upon moving to the United States was in being how easy it became to find friends of which to play games.
One of my friends in I believe Madrid said that at the time there were still laws outlawing RPGs. Think the supposed reason was "its gambling!" which is the fallback the Satanic Panic nuts declare when bible thumping doesnt get what they want. I'd like to hope that this is not still in effect. But we all know how stupid people can be long after. Theres still to this day places in the US that are hosile to RPGs or D&D in particular.
It's a secret society masquerading as a hobby. SO secret even the members don't know it's secret.
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