Me and a gamer buddy are setting aside another game because it's diceless and is missing a few details we think would be fun. No I won't name it, I don't want to get into a bitchfest about our old game, but find a new one better-suited to what we want.

What we're after is something relatively light in length but strong in detail, and including hit locations - because we have a bit of combat. Having an existing skill and trait list would be good, we don't want the GM to have to make a bunch of stuff up before playing - so games like Fate and Tri-Stat are out.

If it could have a bit of a gritty feel to it, that'd be good, too.

I've found it a difficult search because so many light and short games are missing a lot, expecting the GM to do everything, and one of the first things they toss out when simplifying is hit locations and the like.

And best of all would be if it's a free pdf, some of us are happy to spend big money, or to pirate things, but not me

Any suggestions?

mechwarrior?  it's got hit locations.
CoC, too.  i presume the current edition has hit locations.  i have the 3rd edition and the loc.'s came separately, in cthulhu now.

how short in length are you thinking of?  tens of pages, or fewer than ten?

This may or may not be useful to you. It's free, from here.

Instant Game is there too, but I'm not sure if that's as helpful for you. I'll keep my eyes open for anything useful for you.

Came across this, but it's 3.95 US Dollars, so I'm not sure if that's helpful.

The Simple20 Appendices (available from the "free games" section of Miscellaneous Debris) include detailed rules for hit locations and damage types inspired by HarnMaster and (oddly) Crime Scene Investigations. Crunchy. Crunchy. And they're 100% OGC rules.

Quote from: Kyle AaronWhat we're after is something relatively light in length but strong in detail, and including hit locations - because we have a bit of combat. Having an existing skill and trait list would be good, we don't want the GM to have to make a bunch of stuff up before playing - so games like Fate and Tri-Stat are out.

Ummm... Tri-Stat does have a skill list.  Or do you mean that Tri-Stat requires you to make a bunch of stuff up before playing?  
 

QuoteIf it could have a bit of a gritty feel to it, that'd be good, too.
 
I've found it a difficult search because so many light and short games are missing a lot, expecting the GM to do everything, and one of the first things they toss out when simplifying is hit locations and the like.
 
And best of all would be if it's a free pdf, some of us are happy to spend big money, or to pirate things, but not me
 
Any suggestions?

Only one. If/when you find such a magical game, tell the whole world about it. I can't say I care passionately about hit locations per se. But a lightweight, and yet still gritty system has been the holy grail of my gaming experience for the past 6-7 years.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkI can't say I care passionately about hit locations per se. But a lightweight, and yet still gritty system has been the holy grail of my gaming experience for the past 6-7 years.

Not to drag the thread off-topic but. . . the aforementioned Simple20 was designed specifically to pack more verisimilitude into a smaller package.

Quote from: jdrakehNot to drag the thread off-topic but. . . the aforementioned Simple20 was designed specifically to pack more verisimilitude into a smaller package.

You described the rules as crunchy.  IMHO, gritty and crunchy are two completely different things.

Waste World is I think a fundamentally simple system that uses hit locations, and it strikes me as pretty gritty. (Haven't played it yet.) The game's OOP but there are web resources which I believe reproduce much of the rules.

Waste World Lite is here Hmm...looks like "lite" means "no hit locations...oh well, if it sounds interesting maybe you can scare up a copy. I got mine at Half Price Books and I've seen a few more there. (Probably not much help for Australia, I know.)
You might be able to puzzle out a fuller version of combat by reference to this page by another fan (Marc Damon Hughes).

Quote from: Tyberious FunkYou described the rules as crunchy.  IMHO, gritty and crunchy are two completely different things.

Well, they're both, really.

Iridium Lite for your consideration
1. Short - 6 standard pages 12 statement size
2. Hit Locations
3. Skill list
4. Magic system (if you like the looks of it I will send you a copy of Supers Inc that has a whole bunch of "Powers" that could easily be turned to spells).
5. Free

I think it should meet your stated requirements.

Bill

From the other guy:
   I guess my preference would probably be a lighter version of GURPS. I like the framework and the skills and dis/advantages, but I don't want to have to calculate the amount of damage taken to the right head light of the car when you drive it into a wall at 43.8 kmph.
And GURPS Lite suxxorz

Quote from: HinterWeltIridium Lite for your consideration

Iridium Lite looks interesting, but I have some questions. Would you like to start a thread to tell us all about it from the writer's point of view?

Quote from: Kyle AaronFrom the other guy:   I guess my preference would probably be a lighter version of GURPS. I like the framework and the skills and dis/advantages, but I don't want to have to calculate the amount of damage taken to the right head light of the car when you drive it into a wall at 43.8 kmph.And GURPS Lite suxxorz

IMHO, the closest I've found is Unisystem. It has attributes, skills, advantages and disadvantages. I don't think it has hit locations, though. But it has a reasonable amount of grit... combat can be pretty dangerous. And it's free, sort of. Witchcraft is free, and uses Unisystem. I think the first 30 pages are the core rules and the rest is the setting. So the setting isn't exactly ingrained into the system.
 
I've never actually managed to get anyone to play the damn thing, though. So I'm just giving a reader's opinion.
 
There's also Fuzion which isn't too bad.  It's free, and unencumbered by any setting material.  Again, I've never played it... but I have played Interlock which Fuzion is based upon.  My main complaints with Interlock were around the basic task resolution system.  Basically, with a sufficiently high enough skill and/or good attributes, performing certain tasks became automatic.  This encouraged players to learn the "break points" and quickly work towards them.
 
Fuzion addresses this (unintentionally, though) by offering 3d6 for task resolution (over the 1d10 used by Interlock).  The bell curve probability makes it difficult to judge the break points.  What it should also do, but doesn't.... is offer increasing costs for purchasing skills.  Instead the cost of skills is linear making it too easy to max out selected skills.  
 
Otherwise, it's not a bad system.  Only 42 pages too.  But it went completely out of fashion for some reason.

I'm just downloading Witchcraft from here as I'm posting this - but isn't Unisystem another one that has different trait lists for each game? So a GM would have to make up their own...

We don't want to make up skill and trait lists, or decide costs based on the campaign, or anything like that - just download and print, or buy and crack open, read then play. Making all your own skill lists &c is a good part of the way to making up your own system entirely. I've done that a few times, no thanks.