Quote from: signoftheserpentI can't imagine how you could change such places; certainly the people working there aren't going to suddenly become star retailers and rpg experts just because you say so I would think. Asking them to stock certain products in spite of that just seems futile (especially if you don't then buy them all!)

Usually the best way is to stop shopping there, and let them know why. Any retailer with an ounce of business sense will realise that practices that drive customers away are a really bad idea.

Of course the terms 'FLGS owner' and 'business sense' are often mutually exclusive.

Fuck 'em.  when I can go online and pay a fraction of MSRP for my books, there's no goddamn reason to give my money to a shitty game store.

for a good game store though, I'll be inclined to pay sticker just for the sake of impulse buy and the convenience of having a place in ones own neck of the woods.

I actually don't believe in good gaming stores anymore. I mean, I'm sure they could exist, but it's sort of like UFOs. Lots of people talk about seeing them all the time, even interacting with them, but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

The first gaming store I ever walked into in my town here was run by a living Comic Store Guy who rapidly became known as "Scowling Cowling". Interestingly, he vaguely reminds me of a Pundit pre-d20.

Then a series of forgettable comic book/collectable stores with an offering of gaming books best described as 'schizophrenic' at prices that are not designed to move books, but to profit tidily. The Red Star Campaign Setting for $55? I beg your fucking pardon. I could buy Cyradon, but not HARP. There's some old CP2020 stuff next to v3 - Live and Direct, Morgan Blackhand's, might still be a copy of Shockwave. Their 'discount' bin is about $5 MSRP. If I want a -gorgeous- bronze look bust of Gaius and Six, it's the place to go, but RPGs? Nuh-uh.

OR I can go 45 minutes out of my way - and during time I should be sleeping - to buy my RPGs at a genuine GAME store. Board games, CCQs, minis, and RPGs. Their selection isn't bad - two shelves with a good shot at having new d20, GURPS, or nWoD releases, going as far into the lower tiers as to offer BESM 3rd and similar. Prices are reasonable, and he'll order anything he can get a hold of. The trouble is, it's very focused on being a place to play, within 3 blocks of a junior high (that's grades 8-10 up here), and only one room. The standard complement is about a half dozen of the disposable income middle-age CCG traders, a few 16-year olds trying to haggle good deals off them, and about thirty 14-year olds playing Star Wars minis and Yu-Gi-Oh. Actually -ordering- something is an exercise in, well, yelling.

OR, I can shop on eBay and Amazon on my schedule and at my leisure, with research and comparison shopping at the same time. I pay about half of what I would on the ground, shipping included, and it arrives in about two weeks. I save on cover price and impulse purchasing, so I get more things I know I want. There's really no comparison.

Game Empire in San Diego is a good game shop. The staff is knowledgeable and helpful, and they actually all wear GE shirts, so the place looks professional. The selection of games is good, and includes out-of-print stuff they got from trade-ins. There is a huge attached gaming room which is packed on the weekends. Plus, and this is a huge point in their favor, they stay open late - 10 PM M-TH, 11 PM FR-SA, 9 PM SU. Game shops with bankers hours don't often get my business because I have to actually, y'know, work.

Games Plus - Mount Prospect, IL.

It's not a UFO - it's right the fuck there...see it?

Quote from: ColonelHardissonGame Empire in San Diego is a good game shop. The staff is knowledgeable and helpful, and they actually all wear GE shirts, so the place looks professional. The selection of games is good, and includes out-of-print stuff they got from trade-ins. There is a huge attached gaming room which is packed on the weekends. Plus, and this is a huge point in their favor, they stay open late - 10 PM M-TH, 11 PM FR-SA, 9 PM SU. Game shops with bankers hours don't often get my business because I have to actually, y'know, work.

Game Empire was always one of my favorites when I was in the service. Of course, I was going down to San Diego from Pendleton about a weekend a month to party and relax, so I didn't have a whole lot to do during the day except hang out at the game store.

I have two local game stores, one is 10 minutes away and one is 25 minutes away.  The one 10 minutes away I visited yesterday when I bought UA and found it disgusting.  It was actually dirtier then it was the time before.  The other one is clean.

I am going to start going to the other store now on.

I found myself in a position where I could try and turn a not-especially good gaming store into something better late last year, when I got my current job at a bookstore that also sells RPGs, CCGs/miniatures and some board games.  Unfortunately, since one of the other bookstores owned by the same people did well selling RPGs and stuff, upper management forced gaming-related things on everyone else, with mixed results.  I convinced my manager to let me stock a wider variety of games (We originally only had some D&D 3.5 core books), and I think the results hae been positive.  We run a gaming night every Thursday for a (now largish) growing group of people, currently M&M 2E but we started with a few months of D&D 3.5.  The idea is to get new gamers interested in different things, so they can see what else is out there (Most of the group who I didn't know before were either RPG virgins or had just played D&D).

One day I'll turn this place into the FLGS for the area (Chesham, Bucks, in the UK, for anyone who's interested).  For now, it's me trying hard when gamers come in, and trying to educate my colleagues a little.  Currently the best aprt is being able to go on gaming-related forums and sites during quiet spots and claim semi-legitimately that I'm working...  But I do have faith that a poor game store can improve, since I'm living it.

Quote from: GlauGI found myself in a position where I could try and turn a not-especially good gaming store into something better late last year, when I got my current job at a bookstore that also sells RPGs, CCGs/miniatures and some board games.  Unfortunately, since one of the other bookstores owned by the same people did well selling RPGs and stuff, upper management forced gaming-related things on everyone else, with mixed results.  I convinced my manager to let me stock a wider variety of games (We originally only had some D&D 3.5 core books), and I think the results hae been positive.  We run a gaming night every Thursday for a (now largish) growing group of people, currently M&M 2E but we started with a few months of D&D 3.5.  The idea is to get new gamers interested in different things, so they can see what else is out there (Most of the group who I didn't know before were either RPG virgins or had just played D&D).

One day I'll turn this place into the FLGS for the area (Chesham, Bucks, in the UK, for anyone who's interested).  For now, it's me trying hard when gamers come in, and trying to educate my colleagues a little.  Currently the best aprt is being able to go on gaming-related forums and sites during quiet spots and claim semi-legitimately that I'm working...  But I do have faith that a poor game store can improve, since I'm living it.

Is it reasonable for a shop to expect me to continue buying from them instead of ordering through something like Amazon if they have to order what i want in every time, instead of already having it in stock. So i continue to offer them my support if they can't do anything for me (assume there are no other factors in their favour, such as gaming space or discounts or whatever)

Quote from: signoftheserpentIs it reasonable for a shop to expect me to continue buying from them instead of ordering through something like Amazon if they have to order what i want in every time, instead of already having it in stock. So i continue to offer them my support if they can't do anything for me (assume there are no other factors in their favour, such as gaming space or discounts or whatever)

Not at all, certainly in that situation.  If they don't take on board the fact that there's demand for something after getting a couple of orders for it, they probably deserve what comes after.  If a store's not doing what it needs to do to keep customers, it's a Change or die situation.  If they don't change, that's their problem.  I would however say that you should at least keep an occasional eye on the place, since all it might take is them hiring a member of staff who knows their games better (or listening to someone who does and tries to help) to make the difference later on.

Quote from: GlauGNot at all, certainly in that situation.  If they don't take on board the fact that there's demand for something after getting a couple of orders for it, they probably deserve what comes after.  If a store's not doing what it needs to do to keep customers, it's a Change or die situation.  If they don't change, that's their problem.  I would however say that you should at least keep an occasional eye on the place, since all it might take is them hiring a member of staff who knows their games better (or listening to someone who does and tries to help) to make the difference later on.

Yeah, it's amazing the difference a single staff member can make. A friend of mine worked briefly at a branch of Forbidden Planet. During his stay he promoted the shit out of the rpg shelf, expanding it from a few dusty old books to a decent, well presented section that attracted a lot of custom. He continually talked up releases both new and old, ordered in all requests promptly and brought an infectious enthusiasm to a part of the store that had previously been languishing. An encyclopaedic knowledge of the industry coupled with genuine love of the hobby can work wonders on suspicious parents wondering about those strange books and funny dice little Gary seems so keen on.

Is it reasonable for a shop to expect the customer to tell them what to order and what they should be stocking all the time, if they themselves can't get it right?

If yes, how? How do you present that to people already lacking in the understanding needed to do the job.

Quote from: signoftheserpentIs it reasonable for a shop to expect the customer to tell them what to order and what they should be stocking all the time, if they themselves can't get it right?

"Getting it right" can be a tricky one. Different areas vary widely in terms of gaming preferences. Of course there are some baseline assumptions-- games like D&D, Exalted, WFRP or NWoD tend to sell well regardless, and should be the bread and butter stock of most stores. Anticipating what will be the next best thing, or even what's popular in the local subculture requires one to listen to the customers and order accordingly. If everyone is raving about the new Iron Heroes pdf. then it might be prudent to get a few copies of the next printed supplement that becomes avaialble. The rpg 'industry' is nowhere near big enough to sustain the kind of blind ordering that many other shops can indulge in, listening to the customer base and adapting is one of the key survival skill.  

QuoteIf yes, how? How do you present that to people already lacking in the understanding needed to do the job.

The obvious answer is to employ people who know what they are doing. If I was setting up a store selling sporting goods there's no way I'd hire Augustus Fatbeard who has an angina attack just looking at a flight of stairs. Similarly a gaming store owner should be very selective when picking staff. If I were in the gaming business I'd want to be able to sit down and talk to an applicant for at least an hour about a wide range of games before even thinking of offering them a job. Suppliers, distributors and the like aren't so important at first, that's on-the-job shit that anyone with half a brain can pick up. Enthusiasm and passion for hobby, though? A priceless commodity.

Ya see this is the response from them (and others) to criticism of the place; 'we can't be expected to stock everything' or 'we can't stock stuff if you don't tell us what you want or tell us about it' or 'we can't know every game ever' (which is actually not the point - it's about knowing what at least is popular or is creating a buzz), 'you have to tell the shop what you want'.

That's the reasn i ask; if i go in and say 'why aren't you selling x', the answer will be 'we've never heard of x' (more than likely), or 'we can order it for you'. i don't want to order it, i want to buy it. if i wanted to order it i'd have done so at home online without traipsing into the shop on spec in hope.

Even then they will only be ordering with the assumption that it will only sell to me. Nothing changes.

It's all so depressing!

There's one store less than half an hour drive from me which is supposedly really good, but I'm not on speaking terms with the owners since they moved to the new location, so haven't been in to check it out.

The other 'real' store near me is an hour away, so I barely ever get there.

That leaves the store which is a five minute drive from my house (half hour walk) but it's a book/gift shop with an RPG ghetto in the corner.

Needless to say, I buy most of my RPG material online these days.  Between Amazon, FRPGames, NobleKnight and ThoughtHammer, it's really just easier that way.