Ok, a long time ago, D&D came out and within a few minutes some christian conservative reacted to it the way christian conservatives react to anything new: "UGH! BAD! BAN! BURN! UGH!"
Well, TSR pussied out and made an edition of D&D where players couldn't play anything "bad" like an 'evil' character or an assassin, in esence trying to appease intolerant neanderthals who wouldn't have been happy with anything short of the utter annihiliation of RPGs, period.
Later White wolf came out with the WoD games that really made the 'worst' of the anti-D&D crowds wildest paranoid fantasies about D&D seem tame and mild by comparision, almost as if they wanted to go for ultimate shock value.
Since then some games seem to have gone for maximum shock value, maybe just as a way of telling the anti-gamers to fuck off.
The latest ed of shadowrun loaded itself up with lots of foul language, including a barrage of F bombs, for example.
Do you think some games just go for shock value? If so which ones and what do they do for shock?
Pundy's favorite game :teehee:, Wraethu, of course went for extreme shock and, perhaps, nothing whatsoever else and seems to have become a one book game, so shock value alone doth not a good game make, but on the less extreme side of things what games do you think use things for shock value, what ones do it well and what ones don't?
Quote from: Dominus NoxDo you think some games just go for shock value? If so which ones and what do they do for shock?
kill puppies for satan. Should be self-explanatory.
Cheers,
Roger
Quote from: Rogerkill puppies for satan. Should be self-explanatory.
Cheers,
Roger
That's more comedy/parody, I would say. Same with HoL.
My vote would be for Empire of Satanis. A very, very serious attempt to package eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil in RPG form.
It's only silly unintentionally, given that it's the kind of "evil" that you have to be a glue-sniffing high school dropout with too many Norwegian metal albums to formulate. :)
The review feedback thread on RPG.Net where the writer lays a Satanic curse on his critics is some classic shit.
Please keep in mind that the use of the word and concept "fuck" or *gasp* "satan" are of no "shock value" on many places on earth.
I've actually got a paper and pencil eroge-esque RPG idea I'm meaning to work on (after the universal syetem project, Dystopia (probably going for a name change), and Those Meddling Kids). Probably gonna call it STRP... you can't make an RPG without a good acronym, after all.
Quote from: Dominus NoxThe latest ed of shadowrun loaded itself up with lots of foul language, including a barrage of F bombs, for example.
This wasn't because FanPro wanted to "shock" people (though some were), but because it was decided that the fake curse words were past their time.
That, and the fact that people outside the US couldn't care less about Americans being shocked because someone (gasp!) used a foul word in a book about criminals for hire.
Quote from: YamoThat's more comedy/parody, I would say. Same with HoL.
My vote would be for Empire of Satanis. A very, very serious attempt to package eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil in RPG form.
It's only silly unintentionally, given that it's the kind of "evil" that you have to be a glue-sniffing high school dropout with too many Norwegian metal albums to formulate. :)
The review feedback thread on RPG.Net where the writer lays a Satanic curse on his critics is some classic shit.
Empire of Satanis is the RPG that Azrael Abyss would have written were he real.
RPGPundit
Quote from: JongWKThis wasn't because FanPro wanted to "shock" people (though some were), but because it was decided that the fake curse words were past their time.
That, and the fact that people outside the US couldn't care less about Americans being shocked because someone (gasp!) used a foul word in a book about criminals for hire.
And good on them; fake swear words are just about the most inanely stupid thing in the world... except maybe for the aforementioned "fake evil" of Empire of Satanis
RPGPundit
Not RPGs but my games Hentacle and Final Straw trade on shock value as much as their actual point.
Yeah, Hentacle and that Pimp card game created something of a moral panic among gamers so I think they qualify. The reaction to the pimp game was almost a Brasseye skit in its levels of bile and distress.
"On a genetic level, Pimp designers are more similar to crabs than they are to other humans. There's no evidence for this but it is nonetheless a scientific fact".
There was also the D20 game about the War in Afghanistan and I remember White Wolf put out a supplement about some arab nation that was up to their usual standards of ill-informed researched-using-Rough-Guides bollocks.
Actually, come to think about it, gamers are an incredibly conservative group who are immensely easy to piss off and offend.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalActually, come to think about it, gamers are an incredibly conservative group who are immensely easy to piss off and offend.
No, that's just RPGnet for the most part I think.
I've always been flabberghasted by the relative conservatism of US gamers though. It really shocked me that people in what should be a relatively creative and intellectual demographic should be like that.
As to Pimp, the only crime it committed IMO was not being funny.
Americans are just quite a conservative people full stop really. Even when you rub up against the various counter- and sub-cultures it's still there... that Puritan set of ethics. I imagine even swingers and furries get together and talk about how black people bring down house prices.
On RPGnet people even complain about bad language... cunts.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalOn RPGnet people even complain about bad language... cunts.
Fusking pimholes...
QuoteOn RPGnet people even complain about bad language... cunts.
I never understood that. The obsession with swear words. Or the Nipple-o-phobia...
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalActually, come to think about it, gamers are an incredibly conservative group who are immensely easy to piss off and offend.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that the loudest, most visible members are the most representative. There is a minority of trigger happy, easily offended gamers on the internet that always make noise. Also, keep in mind, that anyone who posts on a gaming forum represents the most hardcore gamers who have the strongest opinions about games so are more likely to get upset. Most gamers just play once a week and don't give a crap what's going on at various forums.
In personal experience, gamers tend to be slightly more liberal and slightly harder to offend than the general population, but are almost as variable as the general population.
Fake swear words often have their roots in writers getting around censorship, but they often contribute a bit to some kind of "corporate identity". Farscape and Battlestar Galactica with their "frell" and "frag" come to mind. Actually, I'd like to see more of that. Any genre that doesn't playe in the here and now is likely to have its own form of cussin', and if the players participate in this particular lingo, the mood certainly doesn't suffer from it.
Then again, if the swear words aren't in a special box but in the introductory game fiction, I probably won't notice them anyway...
How is Kill Puppies for Satan anyway? A lot of my friends here are interested in it...
Can someone provide the thread link to where the Satanis writer curses his critics? I love reading whiny writers bitch out.
And yes, Americans are damn easy to offend, but it's become easier for them to express their offense. Something like 99% of all FCC complaints come from a single mailing-list source, and I doubt that the people who respond to that mailing list actually watch the show.
Coming from Texas, here's the attitude I see: "I don't want to understand it, so I might as well condemn it!"
Quote from: dsivisCan someone provide the thread link to where the Satanis writer curses his critics?
Here you go: http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=4787147&postcount=29
Quote from: SosthenesFake swear words often have their roots in writers getting around censorship, but they often contribute a bit to some kind of "corporate identity". Farscape and Battlestar Galactica with their "frell" and "frag" come to mind. Actually, I'd like to see more of that. Any genre that doesn't playe in the here and now is likely to have its own form of cussin', and if the players participate in this particular lingo, the mood certainly doesn't suffer from it.
Firefly handled that quite nicely by having the characters reflect a fashion for swearing in Chinese. My problem with these imaginary swear words (FTANJ! was another and Drek) is that they are utterly fake. They're basically nonsense synonyms for existing words, completely ignoring the fact that our modern swear words actually pre-date english.
I mean fuck is anglo-saxon and cunt is derrived from Latin. Why would we suddenly start saying "frell"?
To me, using imaginary swear words is an immediate sign that you're either a coward or you're aimed at kids.
Swear words certainly have their fashions, as does most slang. It's been a while since I heard someone on TV use "swounds" outside a period piece. "Shiny" isn't any more unlikely than "cool" or "phat". And we got quite some mileage out of Shadowrun's "chummer" and "so ka".
Then again, maybe it's just a regional thing. German doesn't have an equivalent to "fuck" that's as versatile, so I don't notice its absence as much. And I've been mostly playing high fantasy in the past few years, where it's much more likely that you speak on a level way beyond your social class than swearing 'til divine wrath occurs...
("Hi guys, this week we're playing Quentin Tarantino's Dying Earth...")
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalFirefly handled that quite nicely by having the characters reflect a fashion for swearing in Chinese. My problem with these imaginary swear words (FTANJ! was another and Drek) is that they are utterly fake. They're basically nonsense synonyms for existing words, completely ignoring the fact that our modern swear words actually pre-date english.
I mean fuck is anglo-saxon and cunt is derrived from Latin. Why would we suddenly start saying "frell"?
To me, using imaginary swear words is an immediate sign that you're either a coward or you're aimed at kids.
Larry Niven's TANJ and Robert Heinlein's TANSTAAFL are acronyms of phrases - "There Ain't No Justice" and "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" respectively. I liked those. Using them as a substitute is like saying "Dang" or "Freaking" or the like, which I use myself, usually for comic effect. My opinion on those who use the same swear words a lot in common conversation - or when I read it in dialog - is that the speaker sounds dull, repetitive, and ill educated. A good swear word loses its punch if over-used. There are so many marvellous adjectives, adverbs and phrases in the English language, that the blandness of "fucking this" and "fucking that" gets to me. When I say "fuck" I generally mean it.
-clash
-clash
Quote from: flyingmiceWhen I say "fuck" I generally mean it.
I'll keep that in mind should we ever meet at a con.
Quote from: NicephorusI'll keep that in mind should we ever meet at a con.
Ha! I'm expecting to be at the next Gencon, so if you're there and hear me yell that out, dive for cover! :D
-clash
Quote from: dsivisHow is Kill Puppies for Satan anyway? A lot of my friends here are interested in it...
kpfs is a pretty straightforward, rules-lite game with an enormous load of satire. It's probably worth it for the read, especially if you like to laugh at WoD fans.
Whether you want to
play it will depend on how much you want to explore pathetic scumbaggery. All AP accounts I've seen have sounded hilarious, but Vincent Baker talks about a con game in which they all stopped laughing.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalFirefly handled that quite nicely by having the characters reflect a fashion for swearing in Chinese. My problem with these imaginary swear words (FTANJ! was another and Drek) is that they are utterly fake. They're basically nonsense synonyms for existing words, completely ignoring the fact that our modern swear words actually pre-date english.
I mean fuck is anglo-saxon and cunt is derrived from Latin. Why would we suddenly start saying "frell"?
To me, using imaginary swear words is an immediate sign that you're either a coward or you're aimed at kids.
"Dreck" is real cursing. Yiddish.
Writing for YotZ has effected my fucking vocabulary. I'm going to have to give my parents a warning before sending them a link to it because their little boy who was brought up to believe that swearing was a sign of limited vocabulary has grown up into the sort of writer that uses phrases like "All-You-Can-Fuck Buffet"
And then there's a section that could be seen as an attempt to justify necrophilia. But none of it's gratuitious - I swear!
Ooooooh... "All you can fuck buffet" I like that.
Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalOoooooh... "All you can fuck buffet" I like that.
Thanks. It's from flavour text for a section about post-Rising sexual politics, particularly in communities with a seriously skewed sex ratio (which will be practically all of them)
Quote from: BeckaI've stopped hanging out with the men that haven't been with us from the beginning and I don't let myself be alone with any man that I don't consider part of my family. It's not a fear thing. I just don't like being stared at like I'm an All-You-Can-Fuck Buffet and I don't like killing anyone unless I have to.